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Do you consider yourself to be a feminist, and why?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Oppressorion
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Postby Oppressorion » Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:03 am

I try not to have bias either way, but I know that that is impossible and am still trying to form unbiased opinions that balance humanity and equality. However, whatever I turn out to be, I reject the term 'feminist'.
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Tothemax6
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Postby Tothemax6 » Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:25 am

I consider myself to be an 'anti-feminist'.

Perhaps I would have been a feminist as the term was understood 50+ years ago in the West, and perhaps I still am a feminist by that understanding vis-a-vis many countries in Africa, the middle east, central Asia etc.

It is one thing to advocate rights such as equal freedom, equal suffrage etc.
It is another thing to advocate rights such as 'equal opportunity' positively enforced (quotas), 'equality' (men and women being the same thing but with different gonads), and 'equal roles' (that the naturally occurring difference in life preferences and roles between men and women is wrong).
That is an entirely different breed of feminism, and it is wrong.
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The Steel Magnolia
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Postby The Steel Magnolia » Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:38 pm

Camelza wrote:Forever a feminist.
Because women are entitled to equality and individual independence in a free society like all human beings.


Thank you, this.

I laugh at the inane notion that misogyny and sexism is somehow "over."

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Phocidaea
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Postby Phocidaea » Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:55 pm

I am a male, so according to many feminists I cannot be one by definition.

I agree with many feminist goals, but don't like the term because it's been hijacked by the extremist misandrist types. I'm sure you've heard that one before... but honestly it's why feminists aren't taken seriously anymore.
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Esternial
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Postby Esternial » Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:08 pm

Phocidaea wrote:I am a male, so according to many feminists I cannot be one by definition.

I agree with many feminist goals, but don't like the term because it's been hijacked by the extremist misandrist types. I'm sure you've heard that one before... but honestly it's why feminists aren't taken seriously anymore.

I agree with this statement.

Which is why I hold the door open for everyone. I'm a part-time doorman.

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Betalia
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Postby Betalia » Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:33 pm

Modern Feminism is abhorrent, it preaches nothing but hatred and mistrust of men and wants to impose more government regulation to prop up their phony notion that there is a "patriarchy" out to get women. So no, I am not a feminist.
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Blouman Empire
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Postby Blouman Empire » Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:37 pm

I consider myself to be an egalitarian, some may say then you are a feminist too but I don't find all feminists to be egalitarian
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Stychia
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Postby Stychia » Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:52 am

The Steel Magnolia wrote:Thank you, this.

I laugh at the inane notion that misogyny and sexism is somehow "over."


Well it doesn't help at all the feminist cause that some women cry rape after having had drunken sex and then say they need feminism so people would acknowledge this.

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Czechanada
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Postby Czechanada » Tue Jan 01, 2013 12:07 pm

As a Muslim, that naturally means I am a feminist.
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Yue-Laou
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Postby Yue-Laou » Tue Jan 01, 2013 12:13 pm

^ I laughed, good one.

No, not a feminist. I really dislike it.

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Threlizdun
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Postby Threlizdun » Tue Jan 01, 2013 12:29 pm

Phocidaea wrote:I am a male, so according to many feminists I cannot be one by definition.

I agree with many feminist goals, but don't like the term because it's been hijacked by the extremist misandrist types. I'm sure you've heard that one before... but honestly it's why feminists aren't taken seriously anymore.

The extremists have become more vocal, but they have done nothing to change the fact that most feminists are egalitarians. Gender equality has still not been realized, so feminist advocacy remains completely necessary.
Betalia wrote:Modern Feminism is abhorrent, it preaches nothing but hatred and mistrust of men and wants to impose more government regulation to prop up their phony notion that there is a "patriarchy" out to get women. So no, I am not a feminist.
Of course, the fact that women are still paid less, objectified, and assigned roles proves that our society is in no way still patriarchal.
Blouman Empire wrote:I consider myself to be an egalitarian, some may say then you are a feminist too but I don't find all feminists to be egalitarian
Then be an egalitarian feminist.
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New Edom
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Postby New Edom » Tue Jan 01, 2013 12:37 pm

Where are these egalitarian feminists? I only seem to hear about them when someone complains about radical feminism--which appears to be the dominant voice of feminism. I have yet to find or see a discussion of gender issues that wasn't completely hijacked either by the MRM or radical feminists completely. I am not asking this out of mere cynicism; I'm genuinely curious because when I say to the egalitarian feminist: where are the discussions? I tend to get no answer, and I've looked. I have yet to see the entirely of bell hooks work Feminism is for Everybody actually discussed anywhere online for example. I have never seen a discussion of sexual consent where it didn't amount to the equivalent of the sheep bleating in Animal Farm, and have never seen any discussion honestly done by any feminists other than say Wendy McElroy or bell hooks (who seem to go unanswered by feminists at large) on the subject of women as abusers.

If there are links to discussion groups, forums or anything else I'd be interested in seeing it. Otherwise I remain skeptical.
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The Steel Magnolia
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Postby The Steel Magnolia » Tue Jan 01, 2013 12:47 pm

Stychia wrote:
The Steel Magnolia wrote:Thank you, this.

I laugh at the inane notion that misogyny and sexism is somehow "over."


Well it doesn't help at all the feminist cause that some women cry rape after having had drunken sex and then say they need feminism so people would acknowledge this.


Alcohol is not consent.

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Divair
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Postby Divair » Tue Jan 01, 2013 12:48 pm

Czechanada wrote:As a Muslim, that naturally means I am a feminist.

I don't see the connection.

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Occupied Deutschland
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Postby Occupied Deutschland » Tue Jan 01, 2013 12:51 pm

The Steel Magnolia wrote:
Stychia wrote:
Well it doesn't help at all the feminist cause that some women cry rape after having had drunken sex and then say they need feminism so people would acknowledge this.


Alcohol is not consent.

Drunken consent is a bit more complicated than that.
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Olthar
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Postby Olthar » Tue Jan 01, 2013 12:54 pm

No. I'm a humanist. I believe in equality. Feminism is not and never was about equality. It was a movement formed with the express purpose of promoting womens' rights. Of course, this was hugely useful back when women didn't have rights, but now we do. Feminism is obsolete, and continuing to support it will only serve to divide the sexes once more. There are still problems, sure, but the problems are cultural and societal, not political which means we can't solve them with feminism, an inherently political movement.
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LeftNightmare
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Postby LeftNightmare » Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:12 pm

Yup
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Imsogone
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Postby Imsogone » Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:31 pm

Of course I'm a feminist. I believe in reproductive rights, equal pay, equal opportunity, freedom from harassment and sexual predation, freedom from discriminatory treatment and disrespectful treatment. I believe that if I, as a woman, want to be a combat soldier the only things that would prevent that would be the same things that would prevent a man from doing it. I believe that if a man wants to be a stay at home dad, he should be that without being mocked or denigrated for it. I believe that respect should be based on whether you've earned it and not on your gender or ethnicity.

I believe that the problems in this culture where women are concerned are not necessarily the fault of all men and I don't want to disenfranchise or abuse them as some sort of useless revenge. I want a deep-seated cultural change that recognizes differences without trying to attach value to these differences. I want men and women to view each other as individuals and not as undifferentiated members of some amorphous "other" group that is somehow inferior and the "enemy".
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Postby Cannot think of a name » Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:39 pm

Veceria wrote:I'm an equalist.

As long as we're quibbling over terms and imposing definitions, we can avoid any real work, can't we?
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Mizrah
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Postby Mizrah » Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:56 pm

I am not feminist
You might say . . . I am a traditionalist when it comes to gender roles
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Gravlen
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Postby Gravlen » Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:59 pm

Tothemax6 wrote:I consider myself to be an 'anti-feminist'.

Perhaps I would have been a feminist as the term was understood 50+ years ago in the West, and perhaps I still am a feminist by that understanding vis-a-vis many countries in Africa, the middle east, central Asia etc.

It is one thing to advocate rights such as equal freedom, equal suffrage etc.
It is another thing to advocate rights such as 'equal opportunity' positively enforced (quotas), 'equality' (men and women being the same thing but with different gonads), and 'equal roles' (that the naturally occurring difference in life preferences and roles between men and women is wrong).
That is an entirely different breed of feminism, and it is wrong.

So as an anti-feminist, I take it that you're hostile to sexual equality or to the advocacy of women's rights and want to remove the right women have acquired during the last 50+ years. So why exactly are you opposed to female equality? Do you care to explain why women should not be allowed into the public sphere, shouldn't be allowed to vote, and why they shouldn't have control of their bodies?

I'm really curious.
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Mizrah
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Postby Mizrah » Tue Jan 01, 2013 3:06 pm

Gravlen wrote:
Tothemax6 wrote:I consider myself to be an 'anti-feminist'.

Perhaps I would have been a feminist as the term was understood 50+ years ago in the West, and perhaps I still am a feminist by that understanding vis-a-vis many countries in Africa, the middle east, central Asia etc.

It is one thing to advocate rights such as equal freedom, equal suffrage etc.
It is another thing to advocate rights such as 'equal opportunity' positively enforced (quotas), 'equality' (men and women being the same thing but with different gonads), and 'equal roles' (that the naturally occurring difference in life preferences and roles between men and women is wrong).
That is an entirely different breed of feminism, and it is wrong.

So as an anti-feminist, I take it that you're hostile to sexual equality or to the advocacy of women's rights and want to remove the right women have acquired during the last 50+ years. So why exactly are you opposed to female equality? Do you care to explain why women should not be allowed into the public sphere, shouldn't be allowed to vote, and why they shouldn't have control of their bodies?

I'm really curious.


You seem to have jumped to many conclusions. I believe Tothemax would support women in public, women voting, and women controlling their own bodies. I don't think Tothemax believes supports the government enforcing laws requiring people to hire women simply because they are women, and would support a traditional set of roles for himself and his wife, not anyone else if they didn't choose.
Last edited by Mizrah on Tue Jan 01, 2013 3:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Gravlen
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Postby Gravlen » Tue Jan 01, 2013 3:14 pm

Mizrah wrote:
Gravlen wrote:So as an anti-feminist, I take it that you're hostile to sexual equality or to the advocacy of women's rights and want to remove the right women have acquired during the last 50+ years. So why exactly are you opposed to female equality? Do you care to explain why women should not be allowed into the public sphere, shouldn't be allowed to vote, and why they shouldn't have control of their bodies?

I'm really curious.


You seem to have jumped to many conclusions.

Nope.

Mizrah wrote: I believe Tothemax would support women in public, women voting, and women controlling their own bodies.

So you're calling venerable Tothemax6 a liar? After all, he calls himself an anti-feminist, and that's anti-feminist viewpoints.
EnragedMaldivians wrote:That's preposterous. Gravlens's not a white nationalist; Gravlen's a penguin.

Unio de Sovetaj Socialismaj Respublikoj wrote:There is no use arguing the definition of murder with someone who has a picture of a penguin with a chainsaw as their nations flag.

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Mizrah
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Postby Mizrah » Tue Jan 01, 2013 3:30 pm

Gravlen wrote:
Mizrah wrote:
You seem to have jumped to many conclusions.

Nope.

Mizrah wrote: I believe Tothemax would support women in public, women voting, and women controlling their own bodies.

So you're calling venerable Tothemax6 a liar? After all, he calls himself an anti-feminist, and that's anti-feminist viewpoints.


"Perhaps I would have been a feminist as the term was understood 50+ years ago in the West, and perhaps I still am a feminist by that understanding vis-a-vis many countries in Africa, the middle east, central Asia etc.

It is one thing to advocate rights such as equal freedom, equal suffrage etc."

Seems like we don't know how to read.
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Gravlen
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Postby Gravlen » Tue Jan 01, 2013 3:35 pm

Mizrah wrote:
Gravlen wrote:Nope.


So you're calling venerable Tothemax6 a liar? After all, he calls himself an anti-feminist, and that's anti-feminist viewpoints.


"Perhaps I would have been a feminist as the term was understood 50+ years ago in the West, and perhaps I still am a feminist by that understanding vis-a-vis many countries in Africa, the middle east, central Asia etc.

It is one thing to advocate rights such as equal freedom, equal suffrage etc."

Seems like we don't know how to read.

Then you really should go learn it. It's nice.

Tothemax6 wrote:I consider myself to be an 'anti-feminist'.

You might want to look up what anti-feminism is all about.
EnragedMaldivians wrote:That's preposterous. Gravlens's not a white nationalist; Gravlen's a penguin.

Unio de Sovetaj Socialismaj Respublikoj wrote:There is no use arguing the definition of murder with someone who has a picture of a penguin with a chainsaw as their nations flag.

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