Do you consider yourself to be a feminist, and why?

[Frisivisia]

no. I believe in gender equality.

I believe you have confused the word "no" with the word "yes". Please fix this.

[Forsher]

no. I believe in gender equality.

I believe you have confused the word "no" with the word "yes". Please fix this.

No means yes.

Totally a feminist position, right?

[Ovisterra]

no. I believe in gender equality.

So you're a feminist.

[Great Yorkshire]

no. I believe in gender equality.

So you're a feminist.

I think you have confused this thread (which is about what people consider themselves) with what labels you choose to put on them.
You have no right to tether the entire notion of gender equality to a term which implies a female bias and a disregard of the part men have to play in it, has a history of being abused by myriad bigots, and which to neutrals is still often thought of as a purely female rights group.

Why on earth would anyone use such a term, when 'gender-equalist' or some-such would be more immune to abuse, more accurate and a hell of a lot more respectful?

[New Edom]

So you're a feminist.

I think you have confused this thread (which is about what people consider themselves) with what labels you choose to put on them.
You have no right to tether the entire notion of gender equality to a term which implies a female bias and a disregard of the part men have to play in it, has a history of being abused by myriad bigots, and which to neutrals is still often thought of as a purely female rights group.

Why on earth would anyone use such a term, when 'gender-equalist' or some-such would be more immune to abuse, more accurate and a hell of a lot more respectful?

It's about power.

[Great Yorkshire]

I think you have confused this thread (which is about what people consider themselves) with what labels you choose to put on them.
You have no right to tether the entire notion of gender equality to a term which implies a female bias and a disregard of the part men have to play in it, has a history of being abused by myriad bigots, and which to neutrals is still often thought of as a purely female rights group.

Why on earth would anyone use such a term, when 'gender-equalist' or some-such would be more immune to abuse, more accurate and a hell of a lot more respectful?

It's about power.

What is?

[Nailed to the Perch]

So you're a feminist.

I think you have confused this thread (which is about what people consider themselves) with what labels you choose to put on them.
You have no right to tether the entire notion of gender equality to a term which implies a female bias and a disregard of the part men have to play in it, has a history of being abused by myriad bigots, and which to neutrals is still often thought of as a purely female rights group.

Why on earth would anyone use such a term, when 'gender-equalist' or some-such would be more immune to abuse, more accurate and a hell of a lot more respectful?

What country are you from? This will become relevant in a moment, I promise.

[Great Yorkshire]

I think you have confused this thread (which is about what people consider themselves) with what labels you choose to put on them.
You have no right to tether the entire notion of gender equality to a term which implies a female bias and a disregard of the part men have to play in it, has a history of being abused by myriad bigots, and which to neutrals is still often thought of as a purely female rights group.

Why on earth would anyone use such a term, when 'gender-equalist' or some-such would be more immune to abuse, more accurate and a hell of a lot more respectful?

What country are you from? This will become relevant in a moment, I promise.

The UK.
You may have heard of it.
Home of the thermos.

[The Joseon Dynasty]

What country are you from? This will become relevant in a moment, I promise.

The UK.
You may have heard of it.
Home of the thermos.

And that bloke in House.

[New Edom]

It's about power.

What is?

The term feminist relates to an ideology that proposes that women are overwhelmingly victims of men, and almost never the other way around. Victimhood can bring about power. it can shut down debates, shut down free speech, coordinate and control how power is used.

[Nailed to the Perch]

What country are you from? This will become relevant in a moment, I promise.

The UK.
You may have heard of it.
Home of the thermos.

Okay. I want you to imagine, for a moment, that a group of people decide that they really, really hate British people. They insist that "British" really means "Chinese-people-hating baby-kickers." They complain about "Britinazis" and shout down anyone who openly identifies as British as a terrible, baby-kicking monster, and sometimes even threaten them with violence.Their rhetoric catches on - young people from the UK start saying things like "look, I mean, I'm from the UK and all, but I'm not one of those BRITISH people." Great heroes of British history are dismissed as crazy baby-kickers. People you really like and agree with, who say really smart things, are treated crappily because they have the nerve to openly identify as British.

In this environment, someone asks you "Why do you call yourself a British person? I mean, that obviously implies that you kick babies and hate Chinese people! If you called yourself a 'squorb' instead, the people who hate all British people on principle and who make up terms like Britinazi and threaten British people with violence might decide to be nicer to you, and it'd be much more respectful to Chinese people and babies."

Do you say, "Okay, sure! I'm a squorb now. Screw those baby-kicking British people, haha!"

If not, can you see why I have no interest in throwing other feminists under the bus and ceding the word "feminist" to the bigots and morons who want to redefine it as something it is not?

[Great Yorkshire]

The UK.
You may have heard of it.
Home of the thermos.

Okay. I want you to imagine, for a moment, that a group of people decide that they really, really hate British people. They insist that "British" really means "Chinese-people-hating baby-kickers." They complain about "Britinazis" and shout down anyone who openly identifies as British as a terrible, baby-kicking monster, and sometimes even threaten them with violence.Their rhetoric catches on - young people from the UK start saying things like "look, I mean, I'm from the UK and all, but I'm not one of those BRITISH people." Great heroes of British history are dismissed as crazy baby-kickers. People you really like and agree with, who say really smart things, are treated crappily because they have the nerve to openly identify as British.

In this environment, someone asks you "Why do you call yourself a British person? I mean, that obviously implies that you kick babies and hate Chinese people! If you called yourself a 'squorb' instead, the people who hate all British people on principle and who make up terms like Britinazi and threaten British people with violence might decide to be nicer to you, and it'd be much more respectful to Chinese people and babies."

Do you say, "Okay, sure! I'm a squorb now. Screw those baby-kicking British people, haha!"

If not, can you see why I have no interest in throwing other feminists under the bus and ceding the word "feminist" to the bigots and morons who want to redefine it as something it is not?

If the etymology of the prefix "Brit" was Baby kicker, and the etymology of the suffix "-ish" was Chinese hater.
You would be very near to having a point.
So close. But not quite there.

If I found out that pregnant whales were for some reason not getting enough fiber, and as such whale-babies were being born malformed, and I planned to set up a charity that feeds whales in the mothering way turnips, would I call it the:
"A rape for every twat foundation"

Why not?
A perfectly legitimate definition of the word 'twat' is a pregnant whale, and a perfectly legitimate definition of 'rape' is a turnip, and the catchphrase: "Every time you see a twat, give her a rape and make sure she swallows!" is so catchy.

Yet I wouldn't do it, because it would be disrespectful and often misconstrued.

"The feed the whales fiber group." Is an objectively better choice.

[The Joseon Dynasty]

The UK.
You may have heard of it.
Home of the thermos.

Okay. I want you to imagine, for a moment, that a group of people decide that they really, really hate British people. They insist that "British" really means "Chinese-people-hating baby-kickers." They complain about "Britinazis" and shout down anyone who openly identifies as British as a terrible, baby-kicking monster, and sometimes even threaten them with violence.Their rhetoric catches on - young people from the UK start saying things like "look, I mean, I'm from the UK and all, but I'm not one of those BRITISH people." Great heroes of British history are dismissed as crazy baby-kickers. People you really like and agree with, who say really smart things, are treated crappily because they have the nerve to openly identify as British.

In this environment, someone asks you "Why do you call yourself a British person? I mean, that obviously implies that you kick babies and hate Chinese people! If you called yourself a 'squorb' instead, the people who hate all British people on principle and who make up terms like Britinazi and threaten British people with violence might decide to be nicer to you, and it'd be much more respectful to Chinese people and babies."

Do you say, "Okay, sure! I'm a squorb now. Screw those baby-kicking British people, haha!"

If not, can you see why I have no interest in throwing other feminists under the bus and ceding the word "feminist" to the bigots and morons who want to redefine it as something it is not?

I think you've misrepresented his argument, there. For one, it was about the nature of feminism, not an interpretation of the term.

And second, in your rather odd metaphor, you've omitted any guilt on the part of the British for kicking babies and hating Chinese people. Presumably such a term wouldn't appear out of nowhere without at least a minority of British people insisting on punting children.

[Great Yorkshire]

Great heroes of British history are dismissed as crazy baby-kickers.

Time marches on. Terms move forwards.

In the future textbooks about suffragettes could say something like this:
"These great heroes of gender-equalism (Who identified themselves as feminists, as at the time male gender roles were not seen as a source of oppression) broke down barriers..."

[Tahar Joblis]

Okay. I want you to imagine, for a moment, that a group of people decide that they really, really hate British people. They insist that "British" really means "Chinese-people-hating baby-kickers." They complain about "Britinazis" and shout down anyone who openly identifies as British as a terrible, baby-kicking monster, and sometimes even threaten them with violence.Their rhetoric catches on - young people from the UK start saying things like "look, I mean, I'm from the UK and all, but I'm not one of those BRITISH people." Great heroes of British history are dismissed as crazy baby-kickers. People you really like and agree with, who say really smart things, are treated crappily because they have the nerve to openly identify as British.

In this environment, someone asks you "Why do you call yourself a British person? I mean, that obviously implies that you kick babies and hate Chinese people! If you called yourself a 'squorb' instead, the people who hate all British people on principle and who make up terms like Britinazi and threaten British people with violence might decide to be nicer to you, and it'd be much more respectful to Chinese people and babies."

Do you say, "Okay, sure! I'm a squorb now. Screw those baby-kicking British people, haha!"

If not, can you see why I have no interest in throwing other feminists under the bus and ceding the word "feminist" to the bigots and morons who want to redefine it as something it is not?

If the etymology of the prefix "Brit" was Baby kicker, and the etymology of the suffix "-ish" was Chinese hater.
You would be very near to having a point.
So close. But not quite there.

If I found out that pregnant whales were for some reason not getting enough fiber, and as such whale-babies were being born malformed, and I planned to set up a charity that feeds whales in the mothering way turnips, would I call it the:
"A rape for every twat foundation"

Why not?
A perfectly legitimate definition of the word 'twat' is a pregnant whale, and a perfectly legitimate definition of 'rape' is a turnip, and the catchphrase: "Every time you see a twat, give her a rape and make sure she swallows!" is so catchy.

Yet I wouldn't do it, because it would be disrespectful and often misconstrued.

"The feed the whales fiber group." Is an objectively better choice.

Let me use another example. One that's a little more apt to this situation.

Why do we call British people British? The UK is ruled by England, dominated by England, etc etc. UK history is all about England. The government draws back its origins to people who ruled over England alone and slowly came to dominate the rest of the island.

Insisting that any egalitarian should adopt the label "feminist" is like insisting any British person should be happy with being called "English." Even if they're some Johnny-come-lately Scottish person whose ancestors got annexed more recently, after all, "England" is that island over there by the pond, they're the subject of an English monarch, et cetera. We can just define "English" in those terms and be done with it. In fact, some people have defined English in those terms - lives on the bigger of those two islands, ruled by some English royal, etc etc etc.

But even if some people might define it that way - perhaps even some careless English people - that rubs the Scots the wrong way. And sometimes the Welsh, too. And the folks living in Northern Ireland. And maybe even some of the Cornish folks. Or Manx. Because England isn't just referring to a country, it also refers to an ethnicity, and the term "British" is much more inclusive, as even people living in England-proper - London, say - might identify with a different ethnicity.

[Great Yorkshire]

If the etymology of the prefix "Brit" was Baby kicker, and the etymology of the suffix "-ish" was Chinese hater.
You would be very near to having a point.
So close. But not quite there.

If I found out that pregnant whales were for some reason not getting enough fiber, and as such whale-babies were being born malformed, and I planned to set up a charity that feeds whales in the mothering way turnips, would I call it the:
"A rape for every twat foundation"

Why not?
A perfectly legitimate definition of the word 'twat' is a pregnant whale, and a perfectly legitimate definition of 'rape' is a turnip, and the catchphrase: "Every time you see a twat, give her a rape and make sure she swallows!" is so catchy.

Yet I wouldn't do it, because it would be disrespectful and often misconstrued.

"The feed the whales fiber group." Is an objectively better choice.

Let me use another example. One that's a little more apt to this situation.

Why do we call British people British? The UK is ruled by England, dominated by England, etc etc. UK history is all about England. The government draws back its origins to people who ruled over England alone and slowly came to dominate the rest of the island.

Insisting that any egalitarian should adopt the label "feminist" is like insisting any British person should be happy with being called "English." Even if they're some Johnny-come-lately Scottish person whose ancestors got annexed more recently, after all, "England" is that island over there by the pond, they're the subject of an English monarch, et cetera. We can just define "English" in those terms and be done with it. In fact, some people have defined English in those terms - lives on the bigger of those two islands, ruled by some English royal, etc etc etc.

But even if some people might define it that way - perhaps even some careless English people - that rubs the Scots the wrong way. And sometimes the Welsh, too. And the folks living in Northern Ireland. And maybe even some of the Cornish folks. Or Manx. Because England isn't just referring to a country, it also refers to an ethnicity, and the term "British" is much more inclusive, as even people living in England-proper - London, say - might identify with a different ethnicity.

[Nazi Flower Power]

Great heroes of British history are dismissed as crazy baby-kickers.

Time marches on. Terms move forwards.

In the future textbooks about suffragettes could say something like this:
"These great heroes of gender-equalism (Who identified themselves as feminists, as at the time male gender roles were not seen as a source of oppression) broke down barriers..."

Or we could keep the word "feminism" for that stage of the struggle for gender equality, same as we keep "abolitionism" for the stage of the U.S. civil rights movement where abolishing slavery was the main issue of the day.

[Nazi Flower Power]

But even if some people might define it that way - perhaps even some careless English people - that rubs the Scots the wrong way. And sometimes the Welsh, too. And the folks living in Northern Ireland. And maybe even some of the Cornish folks. Or Manx. Because England isn't just referring to a country, it also refers to an ethnicity, and the term "British" is much more inclusive, as even people living in England-proper - London, say - might identify with a different ethnicity.

How come only the Manx get a link? Is it because we are the master race?

[Vareiln]

I guess I could be considered one.

[The Joseon Dynasty]

But even if some people might define it that way - perhaps even some careless English people - that rubs the Scots the wrong way. And sometimes the Welsh, too. And the folks living in Northern Ireland. And maybe even some of the Cornish folks. Or Manx. Because England isn't just referring to a country, it also refers to an ethnicity, and the term "British" is much more inclusive, as even people living in England-proper - London, say - might identify with a different ethnicity.

How come only the Manx get a link? Is it because we are the master race?

With such notable people as Beckii Cruel, how could you not be?

Rebecca Anne Flint (born 5 June 1995), better known by her stage name Beckii Cruel (ベッキー・クルーエル), is a British pop dancer and singer. She reached popularity in Japan after her YouTube videos of her dancing to dance pop songs were posted around the Internet. She is especially popular with older Japanese men, among whom an attraction to underage girls is seen as a mainstream fetish rather than a perversion. She is the 17th most subscribed user (3rd most in the Musician category) in Japan on YouTube (as of 25 August 2010).[2] Her YouTube account has reached 14 million upload views and over 53,000 subscribers.

You should be swelling with pride.

[Zohai]

no. many reasons. i tend to disagree with them.

[Vareiln]

no. many reasons. i tend to disagree with them.

Care to elaborate?

[The Amyclae]

I agree with a few of the goals but I find the sense of an omnipresent patriarchal/patriarchal-influenced historicism that propels our society around like a wind-up toy a bit... Deflating? A lot of the hyphenated studies in colleges leaves me quesy, as well as put off by their general incoherence, but that could just be my digestion. I simply can't help but open a feminist academic journal without an eye closed: it makes wincing that much easier.

With more women voting in elections, more women graduating from institutions of all types, and with them finding more enjoyment in modern life than men feminism has (seemingly) adopted a certain "Happy Times Happy Problems" sort of sheen that I don't find terribly attractive.

Perhaps most of all I view it as a useful vehicle for a few lawyers and government employees to break increasingly dubious 'glass' ceilings while leaving the large, if silent, swath of humanity at the bottom of the ladder to swim around in the shards. Since I am neither a lawyer, a government employee nor at the bottom of the ladder my apathy is quite unrestricted.

[The Multiversal Species Alliance]

So you're a feminist.

I think you have confused this thread (which is about what people consider themselves) with what labels you choose to put on them.
You have no right to tether the entire notion of gender equality to a term which implies a female bias and a disregard of the part men have to play in it, has a history of being abused by myriad bigots, and which to neutrals is still often thought of as a purely female rights group.

Why on earth would anyone use such a term, when 'gender-equalist' or some-such would be more immune to abuse, more accurate and a hell of a lot more respectful?

"Feminism is a collection of movements and ideologies aimed at defining, establishing, and defending equal political, economic, and social rights for women."
Quoted from Wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism

[Veceria]

I'm an equalist.