Your stance on gun control?

[Chernoslavia]

Actually the most lax gun laws in europe is in Switzerland.

Some of the laxest, not the laxest, I said.

oh right

[Chernoslavia]

Tell that to the women that were raped by a man whose weapon was just being twice their strength.

Tell that to the hundreds murdered in my city annually with firearms.

which most likely were obtained illegally. If you want to be a victim then good for you, but dont take other people's rights just for your piece of mind.

[Romalae]

"If you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns."

[South Cvandia]

Tell that to the hundreds murdered in my city annually with firearms.

which were obtained illegally.

Yes because Glock, and Colt sell guns illegally to criminals.... Those guns were at one point sold legally to a "lawful owner" who then went and sold it to criminals, who then used it to murder innocents. But hey, totally, your right to carry around a pistol is more important than my right to live.

[Chernoslavia]

So hunting is not legitimate to you? Or would you prefer everyone only hunt with bow and arrow?

Not anymore.

How many people still have to hunt for survival?

Sometimes I have to if I dont have enough gas money. I live in a rural part of Alaska.

[Chernoslavia]

which were obtained illegally.

Yes because Glock, and Colt sell guns illegally to criminals.... Those guns were at one point sold legally to a "lawful owner" who then went and sold it to criminals, who then used it to murder innocents. But hey, totally, your right to carry around a pistol is more important than my right to live.

Source?

[South Cvandia]

Yes because Glock, and Colt sell guns illegally to criminals.... Those guns were at one point sold legally to a "lawful owner" who then went and sold it to criminals, who then used it to murder innocents. But hey, totally, your right to carry around a pistol is more important than my right to live.

Source?

Common sense is a wonderful thing to have. See, because I don't think any weapon manufactuerer (My exmaples Glock and Colt) most likely would never sell weapons illegally to criminals, so at one point or another, they had to be sold to someone legally .

[Cold Coast]

Tell that to the hundreds murdered in my city annually with firearms.

which most likely were obtained illegally. If you want to be a victim then good for you, but dont take other people's rights just for your piece of mind.

Actually there was a study done, and approximately 75% of guns used for violence were obtained legally. I don't really feel like searching the web for the source, but if you really want me to look it up I guess I could.

[Chernoslavia]

Source?

Common sense is a wonderful thing to have. See, because I don't think any weapon manufactuerer (My exmaples Glock and Colt) most likely would never sell weapons illegally to criminals, so at one point or another, they had to be sold to someone legally .

Gun manufacturers make money by selling to permitted gunstores and the military and law enforcement. If they have been selling them to criminals then it would become obvious that they would have gotten into big trouble with the law, especially if some average joe knows about it.

[Vareiln]

which were obtained illegally.

Yes because Glock, and Colt sell guns illegally to criminals.... Those guns were at one point sold legally to a "lawful owner" who then went and sold it to criminals, who then used it to murder innocents. But hey, totally, your right to carry around a pistol is more important than my right to live.

Because he's going to shoot you, and you obviously need to be paranoid about a fellow person carrying *gasp* a gun.

[Chernoslavia]

which most likely were obtained illegally. If you want to be a victim then good for you, but dont take other people's rights just for your piece of mind.

Actually there was a study done, and approximately 75% of guns used for violence were obtained legally. I don't really feel like searching the web for the source, but if you really want me to look it up I guess I could.

Please do.

[Spreewerke]

Source?

Common sense is a wonderful thing to have. See, because I don't think any weapon manufactuerer (My exmaples Glock and Colt) most likely would never sell weapons illegally to criminals, so at one point or another, they had to be sold to someone legally .

Firearms manufacturers cannot sell to the public.

[South Cvandia]

Common sense is a wonderful thing to have. See, because I don't think any weapon manufactuerer (My exmaples Glock and Colt) most likely would never sell weapons illegally to criminals, so at one point or another, they had to be sold to someone legally .

Firearms manufacturers cannot sell to the public.

Ohmygod, do you even get the point I was trying to make?

[Spreewerke]

Firearms manufacturers cannot sell to the public.

Ohmygod, do you even get the point I was trying to make?

I understood perfectly well, but once a manufacturer's weapon has left their doors, it's not like they can control what happens to it.

Also, you're taking theft out of the equation, as well.

[Northern Dominus]

Let's have a little historical perspective here people.

For a bit of a refresher, here is the 2nd Amendment in all of its glory:


When the 2nd Amendment was written, the United States barely had a standing army and massive debt to pay off after going to war with England. On top of that you had native tribes on the frontiers and a contingent of British troops in Canada after the war ended. So you have a young nation which faced a lot of dangerous elements and didn't have the funds to create the standing continental army it needed to defend its territory, the new government came up with an ingenious solution:

It would form citizien militias, people who own their own firearms and many of whom were Revolutionary War veterans, train them accordingly, then charge them as official state militias, tasked with defending the new nation. Surprisingly, we still have the federal militias today.... and they look like this:

(Image) (Image)
(Image) (Image)

Yes, those well-trained and organized militias have been transformed into today's National Guard, pursuant to the Militia Act of 1903:
http://www.jstor.org/stable/25119439

So in a sense the militias themselves, the defenders of the homeland, haven't gone away. Instead the country became financially solvent and was once again able to provide arms and equipment for its defenders at home rather than mandating that every able-bodied man keep a decent musket and train appropriately. Furthermore, during the days when the 2nd Amendment was written, most homes outside of large cities used firearms for more than just defense. Finding food, protecting livestock were also essentials, and a firearm was the best tool for that.

So, since the state now funds the militias and most of us live in suburbia or urban areas, why exactly does Joe Schmo need his off-brand AR-15 with a bajillion scopes and lasers again?

Because every male over the age of 18 is considered a part of the national militia, regardless of whether or not they are in a military branch.

Erm...what? Granted you have to sign up for selective service, but that just means if the draft comes back, you'll be called up...unless of course there's some secret document that supercedes the militia act that nobody but you is aware of...

I don't have a bajillion scopes and lasers on mine, but my off-brand AR15 (since the Colt AR15 and Colt Sporter are both banned in the very state in which they're produced) is used as an accurate semi-auto paper puncher.

Okay, so it's just a plunker basically. Fair enough, if it were me I'd be more inclined to get a Ruger 10/22 or Remington 552 if I wanted a plunker because I've seen enough M-4s in my lifetime that I really don't feel the need to see another and .22 LR is dirt cheap, but at least I can understand the reasoning behind the choice.

I even understand the fascination with firearms themselves. They're a marvel of engineering, chemistry, and physics from a technical standpoint. And from a slightly less standpoint, it's fun to make things go bang and put holes in something 50-150 yards away, especially if it explodes. That I understand as well.

What I honestly don't understand why some people feel the need to get multiple AR-15 or AK-47 models/knockoffs, then simply slap on different scopes, electronics, and other doodads to satisfy their COD fetish, especially when a cursory conversation reveals that they probably wouldn't have passed a psych evaluation to do much more than peel potatoes. That sort of psychotic fetishism wrapped up in the stars and stripes and slapped with NRA stickers is frankly ugly.

[Spreewerke]

Because every male over the age of 18 is considered a part of the national militia, regardless of whether or not they are in a military branch.

Erm...what? Granted you have to sign up for selective service, but that just means if the draft comes back, you'll be called up...unless of course there's some secret document that supercedes the militia act that nobody but you is aware of...

Nobody but me and the government: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militia_%2 ... ve_militia

[Northern Dominus]

Erm...what? Granted you have to sign up for selective service, but that just means if the draft comes back, you'll be called up...unless of course there's some secret document that supercedes the militia act that nobody but you is aware of...

Nobody but me and the government: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militia_%2 ... ve_militia

Right...if the nation has to enact that statute to defend itself, things probably would have degenerated far enough that the concepts of command and control and combined arms probably would have been out the door a long time ago.

And that still doesn't excuse the fact that Billy Bob, Joe, Bobby, Sammy, and Ricky with their hunting rifles or COD wet dream knockoff rifles a national militia don't make. The national militias are now the National Guard, and anybody claiming otherwise is just a collection of revisionist goofs in the woods with too many guns and not enough history books.

[South Cvandia]

Erm...what? Granted you have to sign up for selective service, but that just means if the draft comes back, you'll be called up...unless of course there's some secret document that supercedes the militia act that nobody but you is aware of...

Nobody but me and the government: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militia_%2 ... ve_militia

Well then, I'm going to jail if I'm ever called up, I'm sure as hell not serving under this government.

[Spreewerke]

goofs in the woods with too many guns and not enough history books.

Roughly 20 firearms to my name and currently working on my history major: what does that make me?

[Big Jim P]

Tell that to the hundreds murdered in my city annually with firearms.

which most likely were obtained illegally. If you want to be a victim then good for you, but dont take other people's rights just for your piece of mind.

Indeed. One persons right to defend themselves trumps another persons right to a false sense of security.

[Big Jim P]

goofs in the woods with too many guns and not enough history books.

Roughly 20 firearms to my name and currently working on my history major: what does that make me?

A helluva good example of a stereotype.

[Big Jim P]

Nobody but me and the government: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militia_%2 ... ve_militia

Well then, I'm going to jail if I'm ever called up, I'm sure as hell not serving under this government.

My time in the military was not me serving the government, but me serving the nation.

[Spreewerke]

Well then, I'm going to jail if I'm ever called up, I'm sure as hell not serving under this government.

My time in the military was not me serving the government, but me serving the nation.

Oath to the Constitution and not to the government, if I remember correctly, yes?

[Transnapastain]

Well then, I'm going to jail if I'm ever called up, I'm sure as hell not serving under this government.

My time in the military was not me serving the government, but me serving the nation.

I feel like this needs to be quoted for absolute truth. The distinction is important.

[Northern Dominus]

goofs in the woods with too many guns and not enough history books.

Roughly 20 firearms to my name and currently working on my history major: what does that make me?

Well it could....

Roughly 20 firearms to my name and currently working on my history major: what does that make me?

A helluva good example of a stereotype.

...possibly, thanks Jimbo...

But here's the kicker: do you have that collection because the firearms in question have some sort of historical meaning in some way? I for one, if I had the funds, would be inclined to collect vintage wild-west era firearms, because I find the rugged simplicity and function beautiful on their own merits.

Or are they collected because they have specific engineering and balistic quirks or purposes, things that make them unique examples of firearms technology?

Or are you hoarding guns because of some deep-seated paranoia that your house will be broken into by some random throat-slasher, your neighbors, a secret government cabal etc. etc.... you get the idea.

Two of those, pretty harmless and I have no issue with. One however, not so much.