Anti-science rears its ugly head in Congress

[Gauntleted Fist]

There is no winning in science...not in the sense of leveraging fiscal certitudes into any given scenario. Science is what it is. You can ignore it at your peril. I'm not sure I can be any clearer...if (as you ask) we are on the same wave length.

I am not talking of winning in science. I am talking of winning in politics about science.

At a guess you are looking more of an appeasing of a situation and looking for a compromise which is not usually a bad thing. However there is no compromise in science. Perhaps that is the difference regarding the schism in our approach.

I do not want to appease people who are anti-science. I want to ruin them in politics so utterly that they never emerge into the light of day again. But I cannot do that, because too many people currently believe in what they say. So I must settle with fighting them in what ways I know how.

After all we do seem to agree on many of the basic points.

We do.

[Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f]

There is no winning in science...not in the sense of leveraging fiscal certitudes into any given scenario. Science is what it is. You can ignore it at your peril. I'm not sure I can be any clearer...if (as you ask) we are on the same wave length.

I am not talking of winning in science. I am talking of winning in politics about science.

At a guess you are looking more of an appeasing of a situation and looking for a compromise which is not usually a bad thing. However there is no compromise in science. Perhaps that is the difference regarding the schism in our approach.

I do not want to appease people who are anti-science. I want to ruin them in politics so utterly that they never emerge into the light of day again. But I cannot do that, because too many people currently believe in what they say. So I must settle with fighting them in what ways I know how.

After all we do seem to agree on many of the basic points.

We do.

appeasing - ok I see your point...I can't do that because there really is no debate to be had in my opinion...which goes to your point in your previous post about winning all the time. I don't have the time nor inclination to deal with the fluff (for want of a better expression) and prefer getting results asap rather than debate superfluous points. That is not to say I don't see that there is an advantage in your approach...I just have a very short temper with the willfully stupid.

edit - I think I rather mangled the English language somewhat lol

[Qwanch]

Just follow what evidence most strongly suggests.

[Norstal]

a way of putting the contravery to rest would to be to do a study that the anti vacinne people want. snowballs chance in hell of that happening.

It's been done.

I hate it when people do this. It reminds me of a daily routine people have with their boss.

ACT I
Boss: Do A.
Me: We already did A. B happened.
Boss: I don't care. Do A.
*Me does A.*

ACT II
Boss: OMG B HAPPENED
Me sighs

[Wikkiwallana]

a way of putting the contravery to rest would to be to do a study that the anti vacinne people want. snowballs chance in hell of that happening.

It's been done.

I hate it when people do this. It reminds me of a daily routine people have with their boss.

ACT I
Boss: Do A.
Me: We already did A. B happened.
Boss: I don't care. Do A.
*Me does A.*

ACT II
Boss: OMG B HAPPENED
Me sighs

I thought Dilbert was a white guy…

[Qwanch]

a way of putting the contravery to rest would to be to do a study that the anti vacinne people want. snowballs chance in hell of that happening.

It's been done.

I hate it when people do this. It reminds me of a daily routine people have with their boss.

ACT I
Boss: Do A.
Me: We already did A. B happened.
Boss: I don't care. Do A.
*Me does A.*

ACT II
Boss: OMG B HAPPENED
Me sighs

Funny, but sadly true...

[Arthurista]

Let them.

The more they decide to do stuff like this, the faster the rest of the world (i.e. us) will pull ahead in bio-science, especially stuff like stem cells which offend the religious nutjobs across the pond.

[The Emerald Dawn]

a way of putting the contravery to rest would to be to do a study that the anti vacinne people want. snowballs chance in hell of that happening.

It's been done.

I hate it when people do this. It reminds me of a daily routine people have with their boss.

ACT I
Boss: Do A.
Me: We already did A. B happened.
Boss: I don't care. Do A.
*Me does A.*

ACT II
Boss: OMG B HAPPENED
Me sighs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8BRbM52gpc

[Great Nepal]

What is to be done to put this fallacy to rest and getting back to saving lives?

Well, I have two options... pick up a gun and shoot every anti-science MPs. This could be considered murder and illegal; which could get you in prison or in electric chair. Alternatively, vote for right people.

[Norstal]

Let them.

The more they decide to do stuff like this, the faster the rest of the world (i.e. us) will pull ahead in bio-science, especially stuff like stem cells which offend the religious nutjobs across the pond.

Or die from another plague. It only takes one rotten apple to spoil the bunch.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity

94% threshold for Pertussis. Fuck that noise.

[Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f]

a way of putting the contravery to rest would to be to do a study that the anti vacinne people want. snowballs chance in hell of that happening.

It's been done.

I hate it when people do this. It reminds me of a daily routine people have with their boss.

ACT I
Boss: Do A.
Me: We already did A. B happened.
Boss: I don't care. Do A.
*Me does A.*

ACT II
Boss: OMG B HAPPENED
Me sighs

You know I don't think there has...

Congressman Bill Posey from Florida was just as bad as Burton, demanding a study of vaccinated versus unvaccinated children, a standard talking point of the anti-vax movement. (Congressman Posey: do you even realize that your question is almost identical to what Jenny McCarthy asked five years ago, on the Larry King Live show?) Here’s his question to the CDC’s Boyle:

“I wonder if the CDC has conducted or facilitated a study comparing vaccinated children with unvaccinated children yet – have you done that?”

Dr. Boyle wasn’t prepared for this. She tried to point out that many studies have been done looking at the relation between vaccines and autism, but she didn’t get very far before interrupted, thus:

Rep. Posey: “So clearly, definitely, unequivocally, you have studied vaccinated versus unvaccinated?”

Dr. Boyle: “We have not studied vaccinated versus unvaccinated.”

Posey: “Never mind. Stop there. That was the meaning of my question. You wasted two minutes of my time.”

Dr. Boyle simply wasn’t prepared for a Congressman who was parroting anti-vax activists. It’s too late now, but her response should have been this:

Congressman Posey, only an extremely unethical scientist would consider conducting such a study. To compare vaccinated versus unvaccinated children in the manner you suggest, one would have to withhold vaccines from young children. We know from decades of evidence, involving tens of millions of children, that vaccines save lives. Few if any medical interventions are more effective than vaccines.

But Congressman, the scientific community has done observational studies of vaccinated versus unvaccinated children, comparing autism rates in children whose parents chose not to vaccinate. Those studies show that autism rates were slightly higher in unvaccinated children. That’s right, vaccinated children had autism at a lower rate.

So no, Congressman Posey, the CDC hasn’t done a study of vaccinated versus unvaccinated children. Only a corrupt dictatorship could impose a study like that on its people. Is that what you want?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/stevensalzb ... n-hearing/

ok...admittedly the latter part of the article I quoted is slightly hyperbolic *cough*

edit - posted wrong link

[Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f]

What is to be done to put this fallacy to rest and getting back to saving lives?

Well, I have two options... pick up a gun and shoot every anti-science MPs. This could be considered murder and illegal; which could get you in prison or in electric chair. Alternatively, vote for right people.

Or a third choice...make anti-science unpopular...the pols will fall in line soon enough....

[Pope Joan]

We need vaccine competition, it has become a virtual monopoly.

I also mistrust the monolith of science and business, speaking in its monotonous monotone which brooks no dissent. There is no discussion. Raise a question and you get labelled as bad, stupid, ugly or all three.

[Laerod]

Well, I have two options... pick up a gun and shoot every anti-science MPs. This could be considered murder and illegal; which could get you in prison or in electric chair. Alternatively, vote for right people.

Or a third choice...make anti-science unpopular...the pols will fall in line soon enough....

Or we could force any anti-vaxxer to face their victims and have them explain why a particular child had to die or woman lost her unborn baby.

[Fintanland]

We need vaccine competition, it has become a virtual monopoly.

I also mistrust the monolith of science and business, speaking in its monotonous monotone which brooks no dissent. There is no discussion. Raise a question and you get labelled as bad, stupid, ugly or all three.

Do elaborate. Vaccine competition? You mean, more competition between pharmaceutical businesses? Yes, we do.
And what is this talk about "no discussion"? How so?

[Great Nepal]

Or a third choice...make anti-science unpopular...the pols will fall in line soon enough....

Or we could force any anti-vaxxer to face their victims and have them explain why a particular child had to die or woman lost her unborn baby.

Good idea... but still not as exciting as my first option of shooting every anti-science MPs.

[Laerod]

Or we could force any anti-vaxxer to face their victims and have them explain why a particular child had to die or woman lost her unborn baby.

Good idea... but still not as exciting as my first option of shooting every anti-science MPs. :p

That would be highly unethical.

[Fintanland]

Good idea... but still not as exciting as my first option of shooting every anti-science MPs.

You are being unscientific. We need to shoot one half, merely mock-execute the other one and observe how policy changes.

[Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f]

We need vaccine competition, it has become a virtual monopoly.

I also mistrust the monolith of science and business, speaking in its monotonous monotone which brooks no dissent. There is no discussion. Raise a question and you get labelled as bad, stupid, ugly or all three.

Yeah I'm not too keen on the big business thing either...but it also depends on what science is being errrrr...scienced...

[Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f]

Or a third choice...make anti-science unpopular...the pols will fall in line soon enough....

Or we could force any anti-vaxxer to face their victims and have them explain why a particular child had to die or woman lost her unborn baby.

Certainly a tactic to use...

[Wikkiwallana]

Good idea... but still not as exciting as my first option of shooting every anti-science MPs.

That would be highly unethical.

And counterproductive. Their supporters already have a persecution complex, giving them real martyrs instead of imaginary ones would be a very, very bad idea.

[Great Nepal]

Good idea... but still not as exciting as my first option of shooting every anti-science MPs.

You are being unscientific. We need to shoot one half, merely mock-execute the other one and observe how policy changes.

Good point. We should do that.

Good idea... but still not as exciting as my first option of shooting every anti-science MPs.

That would be highly unethical.

Just go to confession latter, its ethical then.

[Gauthier]

Or we could force any anti-vaxxer to face their victims and have them explain why a particular child had to die or woman lost her unborn baby.

Certainly a tactic to use...

Even more lultastic if the anti-vaccer goes on a spiel about God's Plans.

[Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f]

Certainly a tactic to use...

Even more lultastic if the anti-vaccer goes on a spiel about God's Plans.

Indeed that it would be...

[Wikkiwallana]

Certainly a tactic to use...

Even more lultastic if the anti-vaccer goes on a spiel about God's Plans.

It's quite strange to me the number of people who seem to believe that an omniscient, omnipotent being somehow didn't plan for us to invent medicine.