UN tells Israel to let in nuclear inspectors

[Risottia]

Israel has no obligation to allow UN dictate what they can do with their nuclear power or weapons.

Exactly just as the UN has no obligation to listen what Israel has to say about a treaty Israel itself didn't sign.

So, case moot.

[Samozaryadnyastan]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NNPT
Cold War USA and CCCP were signatories.
So, both Cold War USA and CCCP agreed to a future nuclear disarmament.

Pre-1968 CCCP and USA

Little known fact, the KGB was a fundraising entity of a number of American disarmament movements, presumably including the CND itself.

[Avarnica]

They're just afraid that the U.N. will forbide them from possessing nuclear weapons, which is basically asking Iran to nuke Israel.

They should allow the inspectors, but the U.N. shouldn't intervene with Israel's nuclear arsenal, keep it from increasing, yes, but don't disband it completely, it's the only thing keeping Iran from doing what they've wanted to do since Israel was born.

[Dilange]

if pakistan started trying to share weapons with iran how would you feel about that

just curious

i ask because it's the closest thing i can get to to sharing nuclear weapons with south africa

i mean obviously we have no right to complain about things like nuclear proliferation but

First, I would probably attack Iran for obtaining nuclear weapons from a non-signatory. I wouldnt attack Pakistan, but I would probably apply sanctions agaisnt both nations for the act.

As for the Vela Incident, South Arfrica built nuclear weapons in South Africa. They had 6 weapons, however they have been joint-tests with Israel. Nevertheless, neither coutnry shared weapons with each other.

[Risottia]

They should do it, but not because the UN says so.

Why then?

Out of politeness, basically, I guess.
I'd love to see more politeness in international affairs. Allow me some pessimism there, but also some hope.

[Souseiseki]

They're just afraid that the U.N. will forbide them from possessing nuclear weapons, which is basically asking Iran to nuke Israel.

They should allow the inspectors, but the U.N. shouldn't intervene with Israel's nuclear arsenal, keep it from increasing, yes, but don't disband it completely, it's the only thing keeping Iran from doing what they've wanted to do since Israel was born.

marching through crowds of cheering arabs and dancing like it's 1939

[Dilange]

Israel has no obligation to allow UN dictate what they can do with their nuclear power or weapons.

Exactly just as the UN has no obligation to listen what Israel has to say about a treaty Israel itself didn't sign.

So, case moot.

So what your saying is UN can just send inspectors into Israe, without their consent. Isnt that a violation of national sovereignty?

[Risottia]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NNPT
Cold War USA and CCCP were signatories.
So, both Cold War USA and CCCP agreed to a future nuclear disarmament.

Pre-1968 CCCP and USA

Oh look. A goalpost just flew by. Was it yours? If you hurry you can still catch it.

Exactly just as the UN has no obligation to listen what Israel has to say about a treaty Israel itself didn't sign.

So, case moot.

So what your saying is UN can just send inspectors into Israe, without their consent.

AAAND bit of a strawman there, pal. You're really beginning to fall below the laughability event horizon.

[IshCong]

Israel has no obligation to allow UN dictate what they can do with their nuclear power or weapons.

Exactly just as the UN has no obligation to listen what Israel has to say about a treaty Israel itself didn't sign.

So, case moot.

Well, Israel is a member-state of the UN, so I imagine the UN has some level of obligation to listen to what Israel says on any topic. And there is nothing prohibiting a non-signatory from commenting on the NPT or the actions of the signatories thereof. In this case, that obligation is self-evident as the UN had to recognize that Israel voted against the resolution.

That said, this motion by the UN is non-binding, and Israel has no obligation to follow it, though as a UN member-state it does have the obligation to listen to it.

[Dilange]

Pre-1968 CCCP and USA

Oh look. A goalpost just flew by. Was it yours? If you hurry you can still catch it.

Cold War started as soon was World War II ended, thats still almost 20 years of nuclear weapons build up until this treaty was signed. In that time period, the governments probably would have thrown you in jail for treason for advocating not to build up nukes.

So what your saying is UN can just send inspectors into Israe, without their consent.

AAAND bit of a strawman there, pal. You're really beginning to fall below the laughability event horizon.

I misread what you said. The U.N. doesnt have to listen to israel, but they still have to because Iran is an anti-Israel nation.

[Risottia]

Well, Israel is a member-state of the UN, so I imagine the UN has some level of obligation to listen to what Israel says on any topic.

To listen, yes. To comply, quite not.

[TomKirk]

Israel is the only nation under existential threat. They want a nuclear deterrent, there is no legal impediment to their having one, and they do.

Except of course in order for it to be a deterrent, you have to let everyone know you've got the big bomb. Israel is being coy about it because.. who the hell knows.

That works very well for deterrence purposes as well.

[Schlauberger]

The UN has a long and sordid history of singling out Israel for condemnation, while oftentimes ignoring and/or excusing outright genocide comitted by other countries. Israel, rightly or wrongly, sees the UN as a severely biased organization that has it in for them. This latest resolution, which calls only for Israel to join the NPT (and not India, Pakistan or North Korea) is just more proof of that belief.

[IshCong]

Well, Israel is a member-state of the UN, so I imagine the UN has some level of obligation to listen to what Israel says on any topic.

To listen, yes. To comply, quite not.

Of course not. The UN is a body of well over a hundred nations, and the GA doesn't have to comply with the statements of any one of them. There's this whole voting thing in effect. You said 'listen' not 'comply' in the post I was quoting though.

[Daistallia 2104]

this gonna be a thread with insults, wrong statements and big argues

As opposed to what? That describes every thread ever posted in all the forums this site's ever had.

[Samozaryadnyastan]

Israel is the only nation under existential threat. They want a nuclear deterrent, there is no legal impediment to their having one, and they do.

Except of course in order for it to be a deterrent, you have to let everyone know you've got the big bomb. Israel is being coy about it because.. who the hell knows.

That's necessary if you agree to only engage in a second-strike policy. So they know you will retaliate in kind. If you aren't above a first strike, being coy works nicely.

[Souseiseki]

The UN has a long and sordid history of singling out Israel for condemnation, while oftentimes ignoring and/or excusing outright genocide comitted by other countries. Israel, rightly or wrongly, sees the UN as a severely biased organization that has it in for them. This latest resolution, which calls only for Israel to join the NPT (and not India, Pakistan or North Korea) is just more proof of that belief.

so you don't have any opinion on whether it's right or wrong for israel to do it you just want to come in and have a hollow bitch about how da evil UN hates the jewz picks on israel and basically say nothing?

do you want them all to join the NPT? do you want none?

[Risottia]

Oh look. A goalpost just flew by. Was it yours? If you hurry you can still catch it.

Cold War started as soon was World War II ended, thats still almost 20 years of nuclear weapons build up until this treaty was signed.

And it lasted until the fall of the Soviet bloc. So, you had to move your own goalpost. Fail!

In that time period, the governments probably would have thrown you in jail for treason for advocating not to build up nukes.

America did not. Fail!
And Sakharov was not thrown in jail, he was given confinement in Gorki... and not for his anti-nuclear stance, but for his protest against the Soviet intervention in Afghanistan (and basically against CCCP granting no civil rights). Fail!

[IshCong]

if pakistan started trying to share weapons with iran how would you feel about that

just curious

i ask because it's the closest thing i can get to to sharing nuclear weapons with south africa

i mean obviously we have no right to complain about things like nuclear proliferation but

First, I would probably attack Iran for obtaining nuclear weapons from a non-signatory. I wouldnt attack Pakistan, but I would probably apply sanctions agaisnt both nations for the act.

As for the Vela Incident, South Arfrica built nuclear weapons in South Africa. They had 6 weapons, however they have been joint-tests with Israel. Nevertheless, neither coutnry shared weapons with each other.

I think what occurred during the Vela Incident is still being debated...could be wrong though.

[Yankee Empire]

spoilers: they will say refuse and the U.S. and the posters on this forum will back them up and then go back to chanting BOMB IRAN

While I am certain many posters here support Israel's right to exist, I am also certain most of those same posters would agree Israel needs to be open with their nuclear program if they expect Iran to be.

Yeah, as Someone who is Pro- U.S. and Nuetral to the whole situation in Israel, i'd say that if Isreal is calling for his so much against Iran then they should probably do the same.

It's all about power though, which is fine i'm not bleeding heart, but that is what this situations about, Isreal and Iran are butting heads to attain hegemony over the middle east.

Which is ridculous anyhow seeing as how they're just trying to capitalize on the United States successes and stumblings in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Isreal of Course doesn't want Iran to attain Nuclear weapons as that would severely strain their military options, Iran is Aware of this asI I am quite sure the're trying to obtain a nuclear weopon in order to use it as a deterrant rather than actually using it (though that is of course possible).

The U.S. is aware of this, and desires to support it's ally Israel in any endeavor, while also being extremely wary of a nation who's national slogan seems to be "Death to America", in a nation they see as too unstable and hostile to be comfortable with them having Nuclear Capability.

We'll see how things unfold in the next decade.

[Dilange]

America did not. Fail!
And Sakharov was not thrown in jail, he was given confinement in Gorki... and not for his anti-nuclear stance, but for his protest against the Soviet intervention in Afghanistan (and basically against CCCP granting no civil rights). Fail!

Okay. okay. Calm down.

[Schlauberger]

The UN has a long and sordid history of singling out Israel for condemnation, while oftentimes ignoring and/or excusing outright genocide comitted by other countries. Israel, rightly or wrongly, sees the UN as a severely biased organization that has it in for them. This latest resolution, which calls only for Israel to join the NPT (and not India, Pakistan or North Korea) is just more proof of that belief.

so you don't have any opinion on whether it's right or wrong for israel to do it you just want to come in and have a hollow bitch about how da evil UN hates the jewz picks on israel and basically say nothing?

do you want them all to join the NPT? do you want none?

Hmm, seems I struck a nerve there. Israel has no compelling reason to sign on to the NPT as long as there are other nuclear powers that are not signatories. Get North Korea, India, and Pakistan to sign it (like that'll happen) and then we'll talk.

[Risottia]

America did not. Fail!
And Sakharov was not thrown in jail, he was given confinement in Gorki... and not for his anti-nuclear stance, but for his protest against the Soviet intervention in Afghanistan (and basically against CCCP granting no civil rights). Fail!

Okay. okay. Calm down.

Not exactly your place to tell anyone to calm, buddy. If you feel too much heat in the air, call a mod. If you don't think it's a flame, grow a skin and be ready for ANY claim to be challenged. That's how it works.

I really don't think I flamed you, btw.

[The God-Realm]

Israel got owned.

[Scandavian States]

And India would better not, since they didn't sign it either.

India has a strong reputation for abiding by the treaties it does sign.

As for the topic's original question, I don't like the idea of the Non-Proliferation Treaty in general, so I think Israel should tell the UN to take a hike.