UN tells Israel to let in nuclear inspectors

[Choronzon]

Polls routinely show that atheists are the least trusted group in the US. They routinely show that Americans are far more likely to elect any other demographic group (even a Muslim) before they elect an atheist. A recent study showed that people think as lowly of atheists as they do of rapists. Bush I said that atheists shouldn't be considered American citizens and won a presidential election after saying that.

American's lack of trust for atheists, and the difficulties involved in running for a political office as an atheist, are facts that aren't up for dispute.

So now you guys understand why I support Hippo moving to the US. Reduces his representation, especially with the electoral college.

Oh, I'd love for Hippo to move here, despite his extremely unAmerican views. It'd be interesting to see how long it took for him to change his tune on a lot of issues.

[National Socialist City of Cologne]

I'm confused.
Why is everyone raising hell about Israel/Palestine?
Muslims killing Jews. Jews killing Muslims.
I bet the North Koreans are celebrating while the world focuses on Israel. While they re-discover '60's nuclear technology.
But, yeah. It seems Israel is alone in the Middle-East, and the Muslim states want to have total Middle-Eastern dominance. For the sake of keeping it balanced, I'm going to say that I support Israel. So that the Western nations don't have to face a unified Middle-East. Instead, Israel will keep the muslims occupied.


Both countries are bad, and they should feel bad.

A few problems with this:

First, 'face' a unified Middle East? This isn't a game filled with enemies one must destroy or conquer in order to 'win'. This is the new world of international politics, where to unite and cooperate is more important than to divide and conquer.

Second, the Middle East couldn't unite a two piece puzzle if they goddamn tried.

Can anybody explain to me what "Sharia" means? Wikipedia confuses me about the matter.

On a more related note: Syria. Your arguement is invalid. :l

[Divair]

Can anybody explain to me what "Sharia" means? Wikipedia confuses me about the matter.

Sharia law is Muslim court law.

On a more related note: Syria. Your arguement is invalid. :l

What? Seriously.. what?

[Kvatchdom]

Polls routinely show that atheists are the least trusted group in the US. They routinely show that Americans are far more likely to elect any other demographic group (even a Muslim) before they elect an atheist. A recent study showed that people think as lowly of atheists as they do of rapists. Bush I said that atheists shouldn't be considered American citizens and won a presidential election after saying that.

American's lack of trust for atheists, and the difficulties involved in running for a political office as an atheist, are facts that aren't up for dispute.

So now you guys understand why I support Hippo moving to the US. Reduces his representation, especially with the electoral college.

Hippo could never gain a seat here in Finland. Only if he ran on True Finns, who he happens to hate.

[Divair]

So now you guys understand why I support Hippo moving to the US. Reduces his representation, especially with the electoral college.

Hippo could never gain a seat here in Finland. Only if he ran on True Finns, who he happens to hate.

Yea, but his vote counts for more because the population is lower and the voting system used isn't the electoral college.

[Conserative Morality]

Did Israel sign the NPT?

Why no, no it didn't! Last I checked, the NPT makes no pretensions to universal application: it is binding on the signatories only, unlike (for instance) the Geneva Conventions, which are generally held to be universally-applicable. Iran, meanwhile, has signed the NPT, and is bound by its terms, but has failed to abide by them.

So what this amounts to is the following: Iran has signed a treaty, but Israel has not. In order to give Iran a fig-leaf to hide behind, the UNGA has demanded that Israel abide by the terms of the treaty Iran has signed (but Israel has not), leaving Teheran the perfect "out": when Israel refuses to comply with the terms of the treaty it never signed, Iran will be able to point and shout, "See?? Those evil sub-human Zionists haven't agreed to inspections, so we won't either!"

So, tell me this: Why is Israel obliged to abide by the terms of a treaty it has consistently refused to sign? Last I checked, sovereignty was still a valid concept - but apparently not when Israel's involved.

This is why I'm voting for the New World Order.

[National Socialist City of Cologne]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/dec/04/un-tells-israel-nuclear-inspectors



I think this is a good move. Israel wants Iran to follow NPT, then it should do so itself. I find it hard to believe anyone could be opposed to this. I know Israel will ignore it, like they do most of the time with the UN unless it's over something they want, but it is good the world is critical of Israel and is watching.

What do you think?

Did Israel sign the NPT?

Why no, no it didn't! Last I checked, the NPT makes no pretensions to universal application: it is binding on the signatories only, unlike (for instance) the Geneva Conventions, which are generally held to be universally-applicable. Iran, meanwhile, has signed the NPT, and is bound by its terms, but has failed to abide by them.

So what this amounts to is the following: Iran has signed a treaty, but Israel has not. In order to give Iran a fig-leaf to hide behind, the UNGA has demanded that Israel abide by the terms of the treaty Iran has signed (but Israel has not), leaving Teheran the perfect "out": when Israel refuses to comply with the terms of the treaty it never signed, Iran will be able to point and shout, "See?? Those evil sub-human Zionists haven't agreed to inspections, so we won't either!"

So, tell me this: Why is Israel obliged to abide by the terms of a treaty it has consistently refused to sign? Last I checked, sovereignty was still a valid concept - but apparently not when Israel's involved.

Because the treaty is only a few countries off from being universal. The ones who refused to sign it are countries which seem to have some evidence as to possessing nuclear weapons. Iran, on the other hand, signed, and couldn't abide. But by not signing, Israel joins the world's crap countries which could end up with agressive expanionist agendas; North Korea.. Yeah.. They probably have some weird Korean nuclear weapon program. By Israel and a few other countries not signing, they'll shape up to be viewed by the rest of the world as untrustworthy agressive nations.

Or.. Well.. That's my interpretation. I'm wrong about a lot of things.

What I think should happen:
Israel should let experts in, and show the world that they have a nuclear arsenal of sorts. They're not bound by any treaties to reduce them, and it'll atleast make things clear. I'm not sure why Israel doesn't want to comment on it. Even if they don't have nuclear weapons, they should go "We haz them" ...And then laugh as the rest of the world cowers in fear of who Israel might bomb?

Hell, I don't know, and I don't really care. :l

[Divair]

Did Israel sign the NPT?

Why no, no it didn't! Last I checked, the NPT makes no pretensions to universal application: it is binding on the signatories only, unlike (for instance) the Geneva Conventions, which are generally held to be universally-applicable. Iran, meanwhile, has signed the NPT, and is bound by its terms, but has failed to abide by them.

So what this amounts to is the following: Iran has signed a treaty, but Israel has not. In order to give Iran a fig-leaf to hide behind, the UNGA has demanded that Israel abide by the terms of the treaty Iran has signed (but Israel has not), leaving Teheran the perfect "out": when Israel refuses to comply with the terms of the treaty it never signed, Iran will be able to point and shout, "See?? Those evil sub-human Zionists haven't agreed to inspections, so we won't either!"

So, tell me this: Why is Israel obliged to abide by the terms of a treaty it has consistently refused to sign? Last I checked, sovereignty was still a valid concept - but apparently not when Israel's involved.

This is why I'm voting for the New World Order.

Illuminati! WOOHOO!

[New Chalcedon]

Did Israel sign the NPT?

Why no, no it didn't! Last I checked, the NPT makes no pretensions to universal application: it is binding on the signatories only, unlike (for instance) the Geneva Conventions, which are generally held to be universally-applicable. Iran, meanwhile, has signed the NPT, and is bound by its terms, but has failed to abide by them.

So what this amounts to is the following: Iran has signed a treaty, but Israel has not. In order to give Iran a fig-leaf to hide behind, the UNGA has demanded that Israel abide by the terms of the treaty Iran has signed (but Israel has not), leaving Teheran the perfect "out": when Israel refuses to comply with the terms of the treaty it never signed, Iran will be able to point and shout, "See?? Those evil sub-human Zionists haven't agreed to inspections, so we won't either!"

So, tell me this: Why is Israel obliged to abide by the terms of a treaty it has consistently refused to sign? Last I checked, sovereignty was still a valid concept - but apparently not when Israel's involved.

Because the treaty is only a few countries off from being universal. The ones who refused to sign it are countries which seem to have some evidence as to possessing nuclear weapons. Iran, on the other hand, signed, and couldn't abide. But by not signing, Israel joins the world's crap countries which could end up with agressive expanionist agendas; North Korea.. Yeah.. They probably have some weird Korean nuclear weapon program. By Israel and a few other countries not signing, they'll shape up to be viewed by the rest of the world as untrustworthy agressive nations.

Or.. Well.. That's my interpretation. I'm wrong about a lot of things.

What I think should happen:
Israel should let experts in, and show the world that they have a nuclear arsenal of sorts. They're not bound by any treaties to reduce them, and it'll atleast make things clear. I'm not sure why Israel doesn't want to comment on it. Even if they don't have nuclear weapons, they should go "We haz them" ...And then laugh as the rest of the world cowers in fear of who Israel might bomb?

Hell, I don't know, and I don't really care. :l

Aaaaand....you've completely missed my point. Israel, having never signed an arms control treaty of any kind (so far as I'm aware - and it would make sense, given that they're surrounded by countries that want to kill them), is under NO obligation to permit any form of inspections. Coercing Israel into doing so is a violation of Israel's sovereignty, just like coercing any other non-signatory would be. Coercing North Korea, for that matter, would be a violation of its sovereignty, as it has exercised its right to withdraw from the NPT.

I was also - as something of a side note - remarking upon the demonstrated anti-Israeli nature of the UN, in which the Islamic bloc is the single largest voting bloc, and whose "Human Rights body" (under any name) focuses obsessively upon Israel whilst ignoring Islamic violations of human rights.

Finally, the Non-Proliferation Treaty makes no claims to universality: the fact that only 4 nations (Israel, Pakistan and India, with DPRK withdrawal) are non-signatories is legally meaningless.

[Conserative Morality]

Aaaaand....you've completely missed my point. Israel, having never signed an arms control treaty of any kind (so far as I'm aware - and it would make sense, given that they're surrounded by countries that want to kill them), is under NO obligation to permit any form of inspections. Coercing Israel into doing so is a violation of Israel's sovereignty, just like coercing any other non-signatory would be. Coercing North Korea, for that matter, would be a violation of its sovereignty, as it has exercised its right to withdraw from the NPT.

I was also - as something of a side note - remarking upon the demonstrated anti-Israeli nature of the UN, in which the Islamic bloc is the single largest voting bloc, and whose "Human Rights body" (under any name) focuses obsessively upon Israel whilst ignoring Islamic violations of human rights.

Finally, the Non-Proliferation Treaty makes no claims to universality: the fact that only 4 nations (Israel, Pakistan and India, with DPRK withdrawal) are non-signatories is legally meaningless.

Man, fuck sovereignty. I'm sick and tired of it. I'm tired of the US shaming itself with our 'enhanced interrogation techniques', I'm tired of Israel's constant violations of international law, I'm tired of the Sharia bullshit in Islamist countries, I'm tired of the genocide and the oppression and the general absolute shittiness of countries who think sovereignty is a shield against correct action.

[Choronzon]

I was also - as something of a side note - remarking upon the demonstrated anti-Israeli nature of the UN

wat

And criticism of Israel is just antisemitism amirite?

in which the Islamic bloc is the single largest voting bloc,

They also have no seat on the security council. You know, where all the real power is. You know who does sit on the security council? Israel's allies.

and whose "Human Rights body" (under any name) focuses obsessively upon Israel whilst ignoring Islamic violations of human rights.

While western nations focus on the human rights violations of Islamic nations while continuing to give Israel a blank check to commit war crimes.

Calling the UN "anti-Israel" is absurd.

[Cevalo Nacio]

Bombing schools, mosques and hospitals, killing civilians is not protecting their own security. Hamas has barely even killed people. And stop blaming Islam. It's not Islam, it's their greedy governments. I've seen many islamists who oppose the whole Islamic world for their need for blood. Oh, and their anger was caused something. Something called terrorism, by USA and later Israel.

Nope. They're not killing half as much as Israel is. Israel's government has barbarically killed countless civilians to get a few bombers, and with bad results. Also, Egypt, Iran and the others may even be worse than Israel regarding Palestinians. Stop killing innocent people, and end the damn war, or leave.

Maybe those Jordanians and Egyptians wouldn't be getting killed if they'd be in their respective homelands, and not illegally occupying Israeli territory. Every Jordanian in Judea and Samaria and every Egyptian in Gaza is waging war against Israel, and it's their own choice to remain there. If they get killed in a war they started, it's their own goddamn fault.

Maybe those Israelis wouldent be getting blown up if they werent illegally occupying the West Bank and treating it like a fucking colony.

Seriously, Quit being a goddamed racist. Were tired of your intensely western facist viewpoints. Have you no sense of decency? Seriously Hippo, all peoples have the right to self determination and Western Values may work for some but not all. Additionally consider how much western culture has been influenced by non western sources (American Democracy was vastly influenced ny Iroquois Confederacy).

Israels refusal to sign the NPT is a sign of how irresponisble of a country they are. If Iran can sign the NPT, than certainly the zionist pigs in Israel can. It is because of this loophole that the Mossad sold nuclear secrets to the Chinese.

[New Chalcedon]

I was also - as something of a side note - remarking upon the demonstrated anti-Israeli nature of the UN

wat

And criticism of Israel is just antisemitism amirite?

Not at all; otherwise, I would have called the UN anti-semitic. As it is, the UN is anti-Israeli, not anti-Semitic.

They also have no seat on the security council. You know, where all the real power is. You know who does sit on the security council? Israel's allies.

Pakistan and Morocco aren't Islamic countries? That's news.

and whose "Human Rights body" (under any name) focuses obsessively upon Israel whilst ignoring Islamic violations of human rights.

While western nations focus on the human rights violations of Islamic nations while continuing to give Israel a blank check to commit war crimes.

Oh? Other than the US, please name an example. Also, the UN Human Rights Commission, over the 30 years prior to its dissolution in 2006, spent over a third of its resolutions attacking Israel - one country - even as nations with vastly worse HR records were extant. Its successor, the UN Human Rights Council, has condemned Israel in 48% of all its country-specific resolutions.

Absorb that: the UN's "premier human rights body" has, over the past decades, spent between one-third and one-half of its time attacking Israel, despite the despotic, dictatorial and generally vicious nature of the regimes surrounding it.

Hosni Mubarak, who ordered his troops to fire on the Tahrir Square protesters, did not get condemned by the UNHRC.
Bashar al-Assad, whose secret police routinely tortured and killed political prisoners (leaving aside entirely his latest rounds of atrocities) has not been condemned by the UNHRC.
King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia, who rules what can only be described as a brutal theocratic dictatorship in which imprisonment without trial, torture, de facto slavery and incredible restrictions on women, has not been condemned by the UNHRC.
Lebanon, in which torture, political detention and - oh yes, how could I forget? - severe discrimination against Palestinians are all common (for instance, Lebanese law prohibits Palestinians from owning land, period, as well as confining Palestinians to their refugee camps and denying them access to state-provided healthcare), has not been condemned by the UNHRC.

Yet the UNHRC spends half its time condemning Israel. You can take this ridiculous, stupid, myopic nonsense:

Calling the UN "anti-Israel" is absurd.

And stow it somewhere the sun doesn't shine,where it belongs.

[Tmutarakhan]

Maybe those Israelis wouldent be getting blown up if they werent illegally occupying the West Bank

That experiment has already been done. Israelis WERE blown up when they weren't occupying the West Bank. The occupation is caused by the terrorism, not the other way around.

[Tmutarakhan]

Palestinians. Palestine's their homeland by mapping, and you can't change that. Also, Gaza's surrounded by Israel. How the heck is Gaza waging war?

If you contradict Israel's interests, you are waging war on Israel

No, if you launch rockets and bombs at Israel, you are waging war on Israel.

If you live in the general vicinity of terrorists, you are waging war on Israel

If you live next to the rocket-launching sites, you will be warned to evacuate from there.

If you exist and are brown, you are waging war on Israel

Etc

Will you cut out this kind of crap? You exist and are white, and are therefore at war with Islam-- same crap.

[Conserative Morality]

No, if you launch rockets and bombs at Israel, you are waging war on Israel.

No argument here.

If you live next to the rocket-launching sites, you will be warned to evacuate from there.

Right, so the good Jewish settlers can move in and displace those untermensch.

Will you cut out this kind of crap? You exist and are white, and are therefore at war with Islam-- same crap.

I'll cut the crap once the majority of Zionists on here are no longer racist.

[The Zeonic States]

Maybe those Israelis wouldent be getting blown up if they werent illegally occupying the West Bank

That experiment has already been done. Israelis WERE blown up when they weren't occupying the West Bank. The occupation is caused by the terrorism, not the other way around.

How long will that excuse be used? I understand the occupation but i can also understand the age of that excuse as well.

I suppose it will continue until they are forced out or the Occupation becomes pointless or too costly.

[Souseiseki]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjLDtBxgYIo

yeah, this is what happens when you trust the "U.N.". hope you're fucking happy.

[Tmutarakhan]

I'll cut the crap once the majority of Zionists on here are no longer racist.

Spiritwolf and Potlimitomaha are quite racist, certainly. Are you accusing me of racism, or do you have some others in mind? And what is the point of a "so's your old man" response here, anyway?

That experiment has already been done. Israelis WERE blown up when they weren't occupying the West Bank. The occupation is caused by the terrorism, not the other way around.

How long will that excuse be used? I understand the occupation but i can also understand the age of that excuse as well.

I suppose it will continue until they are forced out or the Occupation becomes pointless or too costly.

Or until the terrorism actually stops. You know, there are 200 independent nations in the world (plus or minus, depending on how you count some of the borderline cases), and while they are different in a lot of ways, one thing they all have in common is that they do not fire rockets randomly into the territory of neighboring countries or try to smuggle in bombs to blow up in random locations; in fact, even countries which go to war with their neighbors do not behave in such a pointless and stupid manner. Palestine can become independent once it is generally understood by the Palestinians that such conduct cannot be tolerated, at all, for any reason.

[Souseiseki]

I'll cut the crap once the majority of Zionists on here are no longer racist.

Spiritwolf and Potlimitomaha are quite racist, certainly. Are you accusing me of racism, or do you have some others in mind? And what is the point of a "so's your old man" response here, anyway?

How long will that excuse be used? I understand the occupation but i can also understand the age of that excuse as well.

I suppose it will continue until they are forced out or the Occupation becomes pointless or too costly.

Or until the terrorism actually stops. You know, there are 200 independent nations in the world (plus or minus, depending on how you count some of the borderline cases), and while they are different in a lot of ways, one thing they all have in common is that they do not fire rockets randomly into the territory of neighboring countries or try to smuggle in bombs to blow up in random locations; in fact, even countries which go to war with their neighbors do not behave in such a pointless and stupid manner. Palestine can become independent once it is generally understood by the Palestinians that such conduct cannot be tolerated, at all, for any reason.

i was actually thinking today that since unionists are firebombing police over a flag that maybe we should take the israeli response and bomb the shit out of them and this post gives me a good excuse to float this plan in front of the NSG hivemind

[Zimmer Twins]

Again as most things I find on here. Why not?

[Tmutarakhan]

i was actually thinking today that since unionists are firebombing police over a flag that maybe we should take the israeli response and bomb the shit out of them

Go after the people who are planting the firebombs? Yes, that sounds like a sensible thing to do, and I would be surprised if the UK government failed to do so.

[Conserative Morality]

Spiritwolf and Potlimitomaha are quite racist, certainly. Are you accusing me of racism, or do you have some others in mind? And what is the point of a "so's your old man" response here, anyway?

I'm saying that the responses mocking the position on race and the Israel situation will stop once the majority of people I'm arguing with no longer need to be mocked on the issue.

The response wasn't targeted at you. It was targetted at Hippo, who has a history of racism in addition to the racism being displayed in this thread.

[The Zeonic States]

I'll cut the crap once the majority of Zionists on here are no longer racist.

Spiritwolf and Potlimitomaha are quite racist, certainly. Are you accusing me of racism, or do you have some others in mind? And what is the point of a "so's your old man" response here, anyway?

How long will that excuse be used? I understand the occupation but i can also understand the age of that excuse as well.

I suppose it will continue until they are forced out or the Occupation becomes pointless or too costly.

Or until the terrorism actually stops. You know, there are 200 independent nations in the world (plus or minus, depending on how you count some of the borderline cases), and while they are different in a lot of ways, one thing they all have in common is that they do not fire rockets randomly into the territory of neighboring countries or try to smuggle in bombs to blow up in random locations; in fact, even countries which go to war with their neighbors do not behave in such a pointless and stupid manner. Palestine can become independent once it is generally understood by the Palestinians that such conduct cannot be tolerated, at all, for any reason.

So it should Accept a Military occupaion of seized territories? Eh not my place to accept that or deny that for them if they want to coexist with Israel that's their business.

And It's amusing you would mention acts of terror when what do you call israel's own habit of Bombing anything it even vaguely considers a threat no matter how much evidence there is to counter their supposed own Intel.

.-. Honestly freind You picked a heck of a Nation to try to paint as the victim in the Universal game of Balance.

And the fact you think Palestine needs the recognition of Isreal to become it's own sovereign Nation is both amusing and slightly disheartening, One day that will no longer be up to the People of Isael to dictate if a people can govern themselves or not. And you know, Not have foreign Military Stationed within it's borders with out premission.

And furthermore what of the the arrogance of the Israeli people pushing this issue on with their Gifted Military might this issue will never be resolved.

But Yeah back to Topic open up those bunker doors and reveal those WMD's that have been built and force the Israeli's to sign a Nuclear Limitation treaty or kill their Nuclear program outright i don't care but i don't approve of the Hypocrisy of denying Nuclear arms to Nations around you when you Yourself are equiped with them and building them.

I don't care for the United State's policy on the issue either; Honestly people act like M.A.D just flew out the window after the coldwar.

[Wintersun]

Israel will let in nuclear inspectors or the U.S. will pay them back for the Liberty incident tenfold