UN tells Israel to let in nuclear inspectors

[Dilange]

If they are going to try this shit with Israel, they need to do it with north Korea, India, and Pakistan. If the United Nations doesnt do that, then its anti-Israel policy.

Various parties have tried repeatedly to get North Korea to both sign and comply with the NPT. North Korea being, well, North Korea has proven...difficult to deal with, to say the least.

What about the other two?

[IshCong]

Sorry for us trying to get Iran to follow what the NPT, which it signed, says. I mean we really must be assholes for that.

At least they are not one of those who still have not signed it. Who is more threating here ?

It's one thing to expect a nation that has signed a binding treaty to abide by that treaty.
It's another thing entirely to expect a nation that has signed no such treaty to abide by it, or to pressure a nation into signing a treaty.
That is not to say that Israel should or should not sign it, of course, but it does serve to point out that the two are fundamentally different, with the latter being a more rare case.

[Kemalist]

At least they are not one of those who still have not signed it. Who is more threating here ?

North Korea. Then the Pakistan and India conflict. Those three have also not signed the treaty also, and I can se those nations using nukes before Israel.

But between Israel and Iran, Iran definately. Iran wants wipe Israel off the map. Israel wont do shit unless the United States will be right behind them.

Sorry, Israel's playing the victim and making propagandas that Iran wants to nuke them is not really convincing for me. Israel is currently the only threat, often calling for an invasion and attack on Iran and manipulating the media that way. Iran has the self-defense right in that case.

[Kemalist]

At least they are not one of those who still have not signed it. Who is more threating here ?

It's one thing to expect a nation that has signed a binding treaty to abide by that treaty.
It's another thing entirely to expect a nation that has signed no such treaty to abide by it, or to pressure a nation into signing a treaty.
That is not to say that Israel should or should not sign it, of course, but it does serve to point out that the two are fundamentally different, with the latter being a more rare case.

Well, then nobody needs to sign the United Nations Declaration of Human Rights so they can get the freedom to act as they want.

If the sides were the opposite, Iran would be harshly criticized (still is, not much difference) for isolating themselves from peaceful treaties.

[IshCong]

Various parties have tried repeatedly to get North Korea to both sign and comply with the NPT. North Korea being, well, North Korea has proven...difficult to deal with, to say the least.

What about the other two?

AFAICT, neither Pakistan or India have been under as much pressure. Then again, this resolution is also relatively recent and there have been some proposals between the two in the past, some of which passed and some of which were rejected.

[IshCong]

It's one thing to expect a nation that has signed a binding treaty to abide by that treaty.
It's another thing entirely to expect a nation that has signed no such treaty to abide by it, or to pressure a nation into signing a treaty.
That is not to say that Israel should or should not sign it, of course, but it does serve to point out that the two are fundamentally different, with the latter being a more rare case.

Well, then nobody needs to sign the United Nations Declaration of Human Rights so they can get the freedom to act as they want.

Several nations haven't. The Declaration isn't even binding in any case.

If the sides were the opposite, Iran would be harshly criticized (still is, not much difference) for isolating themselves from peaceful treaties.

And currently Israel is being criticized for not being a party to the NPT. What, precisely, is your point?

[Undivulged Principles]

If they are going to try this shit with Israel, they need to do it with north Korea, India, and Pakistan. If the United Nations doesnt do that, then its anti-Israel policy.

This is nothing more than colored bubbles used to deflect the real question, should a country respect the wishes of a gaggle of other countries even if it goes against its interests. If you believe yes or no, that is onething; if you believe one country should while another shouldn't, that is something else altogether.

Personally, since Israel has no intention of ever reading the NPT, much less signing it, they should stfu about wanting any one else to abide by it, whether the other country signed it or not. It is none of Israel's business unless they are party to the agreement.

Why they even have an opinion on it is beyond me and evident of the immense bias for Israel in the west. That is like asking the neighborhood bully whether the other kids should bring weapons to school. Of course they will say no. But heaven forbid the question be reflected upon themselves then you will see all manner of excuses on why Israel ks special and every one else isn't. That is what it really boils down to and always has. Jews think they are special. It says it right in their Bible. That sort of mentality will always cause friction. If a people cannot or will not play well with others they have no one to blame for their issues with others than themselves.

They do have others to thank foe being where they are today though fat chance you will ever hear a word of thanks coming from them. Zealots cant see past their blinders.

[Dilange]

Sorry, Israel's playing the victim and making propagandas that Iran wants to nuke them is not really convincing for me. Israel is currently the only threat, often calling for an invasion and attack on Iran and manipulating the media that way. Iran has the self-defense right in that case.

I know you are anti-Israel. So obviously you are not going to see what Israel claims as legit. Personally, I dont believe Israel's claims are legit either, but they have every right to fear about Iran. Iran is breaking the NPT and may follow down the road of North Korea. And that isnt a good idea for any of Middle East.

[Dilange]

AFAICT, neither Pakistan or India have been under as much pressure. Then again, this resolution is also relatively recent and there have been some proposals between the two in the past, some of which passed and some of which were rejected.

Exactly. I'd rather have somethign done with them before Israel.

[Dilange]

This is nothing more than colored bubbles used to deflect the real question, should a country respect the wishes of a gaggle of other countries even if it goes against its interests. If you believe yes or no, that is onething; if you believe one country should while another shouldn't, that is something else altogether.

I mean, yeah, fuck me for asking people who have had major issues and nuclear pressure in the past to sign the NPT and abide by it.

Personally, since Israel has no intention of ever reading the NPT, much less signing it, they should stfu about wanting any one else to abide by it, whether the other country signed it or not. It is none of Israel's business unless they are party to the agreement.

Iran is a big enemy of Israel, and Iran has made statements of wiping Israel off the map. And you say they should not talk about it? Are you literally that stupid?

Why they even have an opinion on it is beyond me and evident of the immense bias for Israel in the west. That is like asking the neighborhood bully whether the other kids should bring weapons to school. Of course they will say no. But heaven forbid the question be reflected upon themselves then you will see all manner of excuses on why Israel ks special and every one else isn't. That is what it really boils down to and always has. Jews think they are special. It says it right in their Bible. That sort of mentality will always cause friction. If a people cannot or will not play well with others they have no one to blame for their issues with others than themselves.

1)They have been major allies in the Middle East for the West.
2) Bible? Jews dont read the Bible?
3) I love how you have this watercolor painted perfect fantasy world of yours, but you have to face reality. The world is full of conflict, some deep in roots, and some based of nothing. The ISraeli-Arab conflcit has been a long-drawn and deep-rooted conflict. You cant just go out and say "Oh you guys cant be nice to each other, than you are to blame for issues that comeon to yourself."

They do have others to thank foe being where they are today though fat chance you will ever hear a word of thanks coming from them. Zealots cant see past their blinders.

You mean the United States? Tell me a few instances where Israel hasnt been the bitch of the United States.

[Kemalist]

Sorry, Israel's playing the victim and making propagandas that Iran wants to nuke them is not really convincing for me. Israel is currently the only threat, often calling for an invasion and attack on Iran and manipulating the media that way. Iran has the self-defense right in that case.

I know you are anti-Israel. So obviously you are not going to see what Israel claims as legit. Personally, I dont believe Israel's claims are legit either, but they have every right to fear about Iran. Iran is breaking the NPT and may follow down the road of North Korea. And that isnt a good idea for any of Middle East.

How's it fair to blame anybody who dare criticize Israel of being " anti-Israel ", oh, you forgot anti-semitism as well.

And Iran has every right to fear about Israel as well. It's Israel threatening Iran with attack continuously (not that they can really do that, but just as an act of psychological manipulation)

[Kemalist]

And currently Israel is being criticized for not being a party to the NPT. What, precisely, is your point?

Iran is applied harsh sanctions and tried to be isolated from the external world, I don't see any of those things happening to Israel.

[Xeng He]

NPT notwithstanding, Israel should not be surprised if Iran tries to arm itself against a state that opposes its existence.

[IshCong]

And currently Israel is being criticized for not being a party to the NPT. What, precisely, is your point?

Iran is applied harsh sanctions and tried to be isolated from the external world, I don't see any of those things happening to Israel.

Those sanctions arise from Iran's violation of the NPT. Has Israel violated the NPT?

[Dilange]

How's it fair to blame anybody who dare criticize Israel of being " anti-Israel ", oh, you forgot anti-semitism as well.

And Iran has every right to fear about Israel as well. It's Israel threatening Iran with attack continuously (not that they can really do that, but just as an act of psychological manipulation)

Whenever I see you post about Israel, its usually very negative. So yes I am willing to call you anti-Israel based on that, but where the hell do you get anti-semitism from?

Im not saying Iran ahs nothing to fear, but Iran has the choice of what its doing.

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

Iran is applied harsh sanctions and tried to be isolated from the external world, I don't see any of those things happening to Israel.

Those sanctions arise from Iran's violation of the NPT. Has Israel violated the NPT?

It never signed it, which is arguably worse.

[IshCong]

Those sanctions arise from Iran's violation of the NPT. Has Israel violated the NPT?

It never signed it, which is arguably worse.

I imagine it is much harder, politically speaking, to sanction a nation for not signing a treaty than it is to sanction a nation for signing a treaty and then walking all over it.

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

It never signed it, which is arguably worse.

I imagine it is much harder, politically speaking, to sanction a nation for not signing a treaty than it is to sanction a nation for signing a treaty and then walking all over it.

It's certainly harder to sanction it, but that doesn't necessarily make it a better behaviour than walking all over a signed treaty.

Granted, what Iran's doing is not good, but I can understand how it might be a teeny bit irritating to be forced to let in nuclear inspectors after 30-ish years of only North Korea (which isn't actually in the NPT anymore and therefore not actually obliged by treaty to not develop nukes IIRC) being severely rebuked for pursuing a similar program, while Israel, the RSA when it did its own thing, India and Pakistan got slaps on the wrist at best.

Ideally they'd all (Israel, Iran, India, Pakistan and North Korea) allow in inspectors, but that's probably not going to happen soon.

[Kemalist]

How's it fair to blame anybody who dare criticize Israel of being " anti-Israel ", oh, you forgot anti-semitism as well.

And Iran has every right to fear about Israel as well. It's Israel threatening Iran with attack continuously (not that they can really do that, but just as an act of psychological manipulation)

Whenever I see you post about Israel, its usually very negative. So yes I am willing to call you anti-Israel based on that, but where the hell do you get anti-semitism from?

Im not saying Iran ahs nothing to fear, but Iran has the choice of what its doing.

What would change if I was an anti-Israel anyway ? most of the people here and in the West unconditionally support Israel anyway, you would not lose much thing. But in spite of everything, if one day the world turned upside down, where Israel replaces Iran in being a subject to merciless sanctions and isolations, I would definitely oppose that without any hesitation, because I think they are totally wrong and should be prohibited to do so, the entire people do not deserve to suffer for the actions of their government, that's my principle.

But all I'm looking for is justice and fairness, Iran should be left alone and Israel should stop threatening Iran. I also think that a collaboration of Fatah and the Israeli government should totally exterminate Hamas, only in return Israel would leave Gaza and other occupied territories as well. But I don't think that none of those who have been settled in the occupied territories till now should be forced to move. (I'd doubt if they chose to stay under Palestinian rule though)

[Tmutarakhan]

Those sanctions arise from Iran's violation of the NPT. Has Israel violated the NPT?

It never signed it, which is arguably worse.

Nations have a free choice of whether to enter treaties. This argument that nations should be FORCED into "agreements" which they do not agree to is among the scarier positions on this thread.

[Len Hyet]

It never signed it, which is arguably worse.

Nations have a free choice of whether to enter treaties. This argument that nations should be FORCED into "agreements" which they do not agree to is among the scarier positions on this thread.

This
This is basically a summation of my feelings

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

It never signed it, which is arguably worse.

Nations have a free choice of whether to enter treaties. This argument that nations should be FORCED into "agreements" which they do not agree to is among the scarier positions on this thread.

So to take another treaty as an alternative example, it'd be wrong to force a nation to sign the Chemical Weapons Convention or the Biological Weapons Convention?

[Len Hyet]

Nations have a free choice of whether to enter treaties. This argument that nations should be FORCED into "agreements" which they do not agree to is among the scarier positions on this thread.

So to take another treaty as an alternative example, it'd be wrong to force a nation to sign the Chemical Weapons Convention or the Biological Weapons Convention?

To FORCE them to, yes. It might be amoral for them to refrain from signing it, but to FORCE another nation sign it is within itself amoral.

[Kemalist]

Nations have a free choice of whether to enter treaties. This argument that nations should be FORCED into "agreements" which they do not agree to is among the scarier positions on this thread.

So to take another treaty as an alternative example, it'd be wrong to force a nation to sign the Chemical Weapons Convention or the Biological Weapons Convention?

Or the United Nations Declaration of Human Rights. Since I am free to sign it or not, I'm choosing to not sign it so I can genocide my people as I want, nobody would have right to say anything to me as I did not sign the agreement.

[Len Hyet]

So to take another treaty as an alternative example, it'd be wrong to force a nation to sign the Chemical Weapons Convention or the Biological Weapons Convention?

Or the United Nations Declaration of Human Rights. Since I am free to sign it or not, I'm choosing to not sign it so I can genocide my people as I want, nobody would have right to say anything to me as I did not sign the agreement.

Actually the UNDOHR isn't applicable to nations, it is applicable to humans. If you don't want your human rights then that is fine, but to take somebody else's violates THEIR use of the UNDOHR, and thus is illegal in the eyes of the international community.