What if the basic necessities of life were free?

[The Darwinian People]

To get money.

Because that's the only reason people ever work.

In a market economy, that is the primary reason.

[Zaras]

Because that's the only reason people ever work.

In a market economy, that is the primary reason.

>implying there are secondary reasons that in some situations may become the primary reasons themselves

[The Darwinian People]

This is the problem with what you propose. It's so unclear and keeps changing around me.

I'll try making it clearer.

Every person is to be guaranteed free basic necessities by law. The government would fund the housing as much as is needed to cover adequate living conditions. Same with food and water. The way government would do this is not determined. It can give money to citizens to build houses or provide free housing by itself or something else.

Why aren't you advocating a state/guild socialist economy; it could provide all you're asking for without the problem of this imaginary money that seems to being spent on everything (likely sustained by horrendous national debt).

[Trez-Nem]

I'll try making it clearer.

Every person is to be guaranteed free basic necessities by law. The government would fund the housing as much as is needed to cover adequate living conditions. Same with food and water. The way government would do this is not determined. It can give money to citizens to build houses or provide free housing by itself or something else.

So, can one own additional properties?

Nothing is restricted. You can buy your own city if you have the money. Still the government would fund adequate living conditions for you. You would be taxed more if you have high income, so it wouldn't make much difference. But when the law says everyone it means everyone.

[Germanyball]

So, can one own additional properties?

Nothing is restricted. You can buy your own city if you have the money. Still the government would fund adequate living conditions for you. You would be taxed more if you have high income, so it wouldn't make much difference. But when the law says everyone it means everyone.

Oh, well if that's the way that this system is supposed to work, it's utter shit. Why the hell would lazy bums be allowed free food and housing on the working man's dime?

[The Darwinian People]

In a market economy, that is the primary reason.

>implying there are secondary reasons that in some situations may become the primary reasons themselves

Please explain them to me.

[Zaras]

>implying there are secondary reasons that in some situations may become the primary reasons themselves

Please explain them to me.

Thinking the only possible reason people work is money is ignoring the possibility that some people enjoy their line of work.

[GCMG]

So, can one own additional properties?

Nothing is restricted. You can buy your own city if you have the money. Still the government would fund adequate living conditions for you. You would be taxed more if you have high income, so it wouldn't make much difference. But when the law says everyone it means everyone.

That could work.

I suppose everything is covered by taxes but it's a rationing system... only so much is free... to go beyond that you'd have to pay. So, really, it's not making this stuff free... it's the state covering so much expenditure.

[The Darwinian People]

Please explain them to me.

Thinking the only possible reason people work is money is ignoring the possibility that some people enjoy their line of work.

Some people, not all; most people hate their work.

[Harkback Union]

Oh, well if that's the way that this system is supposed to work, it's utter shit. Why the hell would lazy bums be allowed free food and housing on the working man's dime?

It wouldn't cost the working man all that much.
And Its Not like poor people are lazy...
Its hard to work when nobody gives a job to you.

[Zaras]

Thinking the only possible reason people work is money is ignoring the possibility that some people enjoy their line of work.

Some people, not all; most people hate their work.

The fact that they're forced to stick to it further reinforcing the theme that capitalism is a shitty system.

[Germanyball]

>implying there are secondary reasons that in some situations may become the primary reasons themselves

Please explain them to me.

The only reason I work is because it allows me an opportunity to be around the friends I have now, and it gives me opportunities to meet new ones. Money's just paper, bro.

[Trez-Nem]

I'll try making it clearer.

Every person is to be guaranteed free basic necessities by law. The government would fund the housing as much as is needed to cover adequate living conditions. Same with food and water. The way government would do this is not determined. It can give money to citizens to build houses or provide free housing by itself or something else.

Why aren't you advocating a state/guild socialist economy; it could provide all you're asking for without the problem of this imaginary money that seems to being spent on everything (likely sustained by horrendous national debt).

The money comes from taxing. Nearly everyone lives somewhere and it costs money. In this system the government takes money from the richer (meaning not the poor) and redistributes it to everyone, in this case for basic necessities, such as adequate living conditions. There is no need for more money in this system (containing the government, corporations and the citizens) than in the current system.

[Trez-Nem]

Nothing is restricted. You can buy your own city if you have the money. Still the government would fund adequate living conditions for you. You would be taxed more if you have high income, so it wouldn't make much difference. But when the law says everyone it means everyone.

That could work.

I suppose everything is covered by taxes but it's a rationing system... only so much is free... to go beyond that you'd have to pay. So, really, it's not making this stuff free... it's the state covering so much expenditure.

When the state covers the expedinture it becomes free. Just like free schools and libraries.

[The Darwinian People]

Money's just paper, bro.

No it isn't. For a lot of people (the poor) it's the difference between life and death, bro.

[The Darwinian People]

Why aren't you advocating a state/guild socialist economy; it could provide all you're asking for without the problem of this imaginary money that seems to being spent on everything (likely sustained by horrendous national debt).

The money comes from taxing. Nearly everyone lives somewhere and it costs money. In this system the government takes money from the richer (meaning not the poor) and redistributes it to everyone, in this case for basic necessities, such as adequate living conditions. There is no need for more money in this system (containing the government, corporations and the citizens) than in the current system.

Read this. See what you think.

[Zaras]

Money's just paper, bro.

No it isn't. For a lot of people (the poor) it's the difference between life and death, bro.

I didn't write that, dude.

And money is technically just paper that only gets its value from the fact that humans assigned value to it in the first place.

[The Darwinian People]

Some people, not all; most people hate their work.

The fact that they're forced to stick to it further reinforcing the theme that capitalism is a shitty system.

I agree; capitalism is a hideous system.

[The Darwinian People]

No it isn't. For a lot of people (the poor) it's the difference between life and death, bro.

I didn't write that, dude.

And money is technically just paper that only gets its value from the fact that humans assigned value to it in the first place.

First; my bad, fixed.

Second: I'm not arguing technicalities and neither is he; he is suggesting that money is unimportant (likely because he's never been in a situation where a lack of money has left him or his family homeless/starving/et cetera.

[Zaras]

Second: I'm not arguing technicalities and neither is he; he is suggesting that money is unimportant (likely because he's never been in a situation where a lack of money has left him or his family homeless/starving/et cetera.

Yeah, I know, it's silly. I was trying to steer the discussion away from that...

[Trez-Nem]

The money comes from taxing. Nearly everyone lives somewhere and it costs money. In this system the government takes money from the richer (meaning not the poor) and redistributes it to everyone, in this case for basic necessities, such as adequate living conditions. There is no need for more money in this system (containing the government, corporations and the citizens) than in the current system.

Read this. See what you think.

I think basic income or negative income tax would propably work better and easier than free basic necessities.

[Vetalia]

The fact that they're forced to stick to it further reinforcing the theme that capitalism is a shitty system.

Eh, no matter what the system is there's got to be somebody who does the lousy jobs.

[Zaras]

The fact that they're forced to stick to it further reinforcing the theme that capitalism is a shitty system.

Eh, no matter what the system is there's got to be somebody who does the lousy jobs.

I know, but there's gotta be one system where the lousy jobs don't result in the people doing them being dehumanised that much, right?

Like a system where the lousy jobs are automated!

[Vetalia]

I know, but there's gotta be one system where the lousy jobs don't result in the people doing them being dehumanised that much, right?

Like a system where the lousy jobs are automated!

But then what would you do for the people who can't find work otherwise?

[Zaras]

I know, but there's gotta be one system where the lousy jobs don't result in the people doing them being dehumanised that much, right?

Like a system where the lousy jobs are automated!

But then what would you do for the people who can't find work otherwise?

Is doing lousy, repetitive work that gets paid badly really something to aspire to?

I like the idea of a society where all the mindless work is automated, leaving the interesting jobs for the humans.