What is your opinion on Income Inequality?

[Vetalia]

Indeed. What was once a game is now a over payed and overrated job.

True, but the consumer's to blame for that...they keep buying the tickets (and $10 beers) that pay for it, so it's not surprising that the pay for professional athletes has grown so massively.

[Vitaphone Racing]

I halfway agree - the value of the work definitely matters. Scarcity shouldn't affect how much your job pays, but it does.

I think scarcity is the only easy way to determine labor value; people who have skillsets that are in demand get paid more, people with less are paid more.

Of course, sometimes the whole situation reverses, e.g. back in the mid-80's the biggest employer of petroleum engineers in Texas was said to be Safeway, or in the early 2000's after the dot-com bubble burst hundreds of thousands of IT workers lost their jobs while the janitors and construction workers kept theirs.

Scarcity, however, could mean that if everybody wants your job that you are expected to work for a pittance or not work it at all.

[Grave_n_idle]

No, they're not... or rather, they're RARELY doing it for the money.

Most start-ups fail. Those that succeed, tend to be hard work for years, and barely succeed.

Most people that start small businesses are doing it for a reason like NOT wanting to work for someone else, or wanting to bring their personal product or service to market, or wanting to be self-sufficient. Almost no one gets rich, and if they wanted to - it would be easier to do it working for someone else, 99 times out of 100.

Absolutely.

I work exclusively with small business owners at my firm; the main reasons why they start their businesses is because they had a great idea they wanted to take advantage of, liked doing something as a hobby and decided to give it a go as their primary occupation and/or wanted to be their own boss rather than answering to some suit above them. One guy is particularly notable, he wanted to start a business in his industry to pioneer his own ideas of management and corporate organization and has succeeded quite spectacularly. Apparently turnover at the place is less than 2% per year because of how well he treats his employees, and they've certainly paid back in kind.

That was my experience with the lasertag venture. It took easily a year to get out of the red, and I made almost nothing. Even once it was a going concern, I didn't make much, but I did have half a dozen other enthusiasts working for me.

Someone mentioned the pizza delivery earlier - one of our guys actually did pizza delivery part time so he could afford to do the lasertag job fulltime.

The real world just doesn't conform to this 'everyone is out for all they can get, all the time' idea.

[Kleomentia]

Indeed. What was once a game is now a over payed and overrated job.

True, but the consumer's to blame for that...they keep buying the tickets (and $10 beers) that pay for it, so it's not surprising that the pay for professional athletes has grown so massively.

Did you hear me blame the athletes?

[Vetalia]

Did you hear me blame the athletes?

Technically, they're not overpaid if people are willing to pay the costs necessary to watch them play.

[Kleomentia]

Did you hear me blame the athletes?

Technically, they're not overpaid if people are willing to pay the costs necessary to watch them play.

But its overrated.

[Grave_n_idle]

I think scarcity is the only easy way to determine labor value; people who have skillsets that are in demand get paid more, people with less are paid more.

Oh, scarcity is certainly an easy metric. It's just not a very good one.

[Grave_n_idle]

Did you hear me blame the athletes?

Technically, they're not overpaid if people are willing to pay the costs necessary to watch them play.

But they certainly are making a lot of money proportional to the amount of 'work'.

[Vetalia]

That was my experience with the lasertag venture. It took easily a year to get out of the red, and I made almost nothing. Even once it was a going concern, I didn't make much, but I did have half a dozen other enthusiasts working for me.

Someone mentioned the pizza delivery earlier - one of our guys actually did pizza delivery part time so he could afford to do the lasertag job fulltime.

The real world just doesn't conform to this 'everyone is out for all they can get, all the time' idea.

Yep, that's exactly it and definitely in line with everything I've heard. Pretty cool that it was lasertag, though, that's a bit more interesting than

A lot of people, especially small business owners are more interested in doing what they love rather than what will make money. Speaking personally, I'd rather spend my years working with a good company (like my current firm) doing work I enjoy with great people than make a hundred times more working at a place where I hate getting up every morning and each hour of the day is spent in misery.

[SPQR Legions]

Perhaps not by you. But they can still vote, so objectively their opinion DOES matter.

No, it doesn't. Their opinion is of no value and completely worthless.

Perhaps not in the dictatorship of Zarastan. But in a democracy, anybody who can vote has an opinion that matters.
Ignore or dismiss enough of them and your guaranteed to be forgotten.

Gradual transition through socialism which would involve policies aimed at reducing wealth inequalities, y'know, like the ones that the entire Western world pursued successfully from 1945 to 1980?

At no point in the 1950s did any sensible American politician advocate abolishing the government and forming a communist stateless society.

You make the rather American mistake of assuming that government by itself is authoritarian. I've grown up in a former authoritarian country. I know what authoritarianism is. Authoritarianism is gulags, forced work camps, secret police, pervasive censorship, and spying on the populace 24/7. Authoritarianism is not using taxation policies, regulation and spending on important things like education, healthcare, welfare and infrastructure to make life better for everybody and provide citizens with a safety net.

If you want Americans to accept your crazy plan, then you're going to need all of those things. Because we aren't going to put up with being part of your social experiment.

[Zaras]

Except that it didn't.

You want to say that again?

Yeah. The Eastern Bloc was a pile of state capitalist shit and all their command economies were badly and incompetently run by dumb bureaucrats where workers had no rights and excessive amounts of money were flushed down the toilet on defense instead of consumer goods and making sure people didn't suffer from shortages.

[Zaras]

Perhaps not in the dictatorship of Zarastan. But in a democracy, anybody who can vote has an opinion that matters.

No. Anyone has an opinon, but not all opinions matter.

Ignore or dismiss enough of them and your guaranteed to be forgotten.

We can safely ignore and dismiss opinions by idiotic racists and misogynists, just for starters.

At no point in the 1950s did any sensible American politician advocate abolishing the government and forming a communist stateless society.

But they did pursue policies to reduce income inequality, regulate the economy to reduce the disasters of capitalism, and provide public services to make life better for everbody. This kind of liberal social democratic policies are what saved the West, since if people wouldn't have seen that their lives were getting better, the lure of the communism would've been so much stronger.

Hell, the Allies' disastrous West German policy of JCS 1067 was repealed after they quickly realised that starving and depriving Germans only made them think, y'know, the Soviets couldn't possibly be as bad.

If you want Americans to accept your crazy plan,

I don't live in America, so why bother?

Because we aren't going to put up with being part of your social experiment.

Good riddance then. Enjoy your worsening income inequality, poverty, crumbling infrastructure and budget crises!

[SPQR Legions]

They dont always connect. But they should, which is a different story.

Indeed. I agree - professional athletes shouldn't make so much money.

I agree with this as well. It really bothers me to see people making millions just by playing a game.
It shouldn't matter if massive crowds like to watch them play said game, the whole thing still contributes very little to society other than idolizing manliness and creating all sorts of body image issues for people.

[Kleomentia]

Indeed. I agree - professional athletes shouldn't make so much money.

I agree with this as well. It really bothers me to see people making millions just by playing a game.
It shouldn't matter if millions like to watch them play said game, the whole thing still contributes very little to society other than idolizing manliness and creating all sorts of body image issues for people.

Its fun for people to watch. Leading their thoughts away from their problems at the time they are watching it. Which is kinda the point of things like that.
However, its really overrated.

[SPQR Legions]

I agree with this as well. It really bothers me to see people making millions just by playing a game.
It shouldn't matter if millions like to watch them play said game, the whole thing still contributes very little to society other than idolizing manliness and creating all sorts of body image issues for people.

Its fun for people to watch. Leading their thoughts away from their problems at the time they are watching it. Which is kinda the point of things like that.
However, its really overrated.

I understand that. I'm not advocating that we ban sports just that we start to put it in perspective.

It's a game, and like any other game from Monopoly to Chutes and Ladders it's a good fun distraction.

But that shouldn't mean that the players get millions in contracts or be regarded as heroes.
Firefighters are heroes, doctors are heroes, soldiers are heroes.
Derek Jeter is NOT a hero. Neither is Ron Artest or Kobe Bryant.

[Zaras]

Firefighters are heroes, doctors are heroes, soldiers are heroes. Derek Jeter is NOT a hero.

The fact that we even have to point this out says something about how fucked-up society's priorities can be.

[SPQR Legions]

Firefighters are heroes, doctors are heroes, soldiers are heroes. Derek Jeter is NOT a hero.

The fact that we even have to point this out says something about how fucked-up society's priorities can be.

Gasp. We agree on something. Must be a sign of the apocalypse.

[Zaras]

The fact that we even have to point this out says something about how fucked-up society's priorities can be.

Gasp. We agree on something. Must be a sign of the apocalypse.

Eh. I tend to focus more on the things I disagree with people on the forum, so it'd be surprising if you wouldn't be surprised at this.

[Bug Out]

Yours is also an agenda. Besides, the subject of this is OPINION.

Their opinion is dumb and they can't even get their facts right.

Again, your opinion.

]Jeeze! The US government took over a whorehouse in Nevada for back taxes and it went belly up! Talk about inefficiency and inept. If you can't sell pussy and beer and make a profit, you certainly don't need to be responsible for any other venture!

So? MAKE the government efficient. Abolishing government because it doesn't work is childishly stupid, like treating dandruff by decapitation.

I never wanted to abolish anything. Where did I say that? That would be stupid as it would leave the US unprotected. I just want limited federal government. The states should take care of any local welfare or other needs. The federal government passes 1000's of laws a year without repealing any, but this is fodder for another thread.

Actually, I do. Not in Somalia, but 1/2 mile deep in the woods. I'm set up to make my own power, but am still on the power grid as long as it's reasonable. I can go for years and not see anyone (and have, other than visiting my mother or going to work recently). So, that comment, like the rest of your opinions, doesn't hold water.

That's slightly better than other libertarians on NSG have managed, but I still can't understand why you're so hostile to the idea that, since you live in a society, you have to abide by its social contract.

I don't mind helping anyone, or even supporting the disabled.I do have a problem, however, with being forced to support the ticks that are happy with their station collecting and don't have the personal responsibility to earn their own way. I would rather play all day than work also, so why should I be penalized by having to support people that won't work? The ones that won't use the free birth control or abstain? Forcibly taking money from me in the private sector would be extortion, but it's fine for the government. If I must support them, then they need to not have the right to vote until they get off the dole. This doesn't include retirees, as they have earned their place and paid for their services.

Nice projection of your ideology's inability to hold water onto mine there, btw.

[Zaras]

Again, your opinion.

I like the way you can just invoke "opinion" to enter into a circular argument that goes nowhere.

I just want limited federal government.

Don't think that's the best idea.

The states should take care of any local welfare or other needs. The federal government passes 1000's of laws a year without repealing any, but this is fodder for another thread.

The federal government should solve inequalities between states, though. That's how transfer payments work in Canada.

I don't mind helping anyone, or even supporting the disabled.I do have a problem, however, with being forced to support the ticks that are happy with their station collecting and don't have the personal responsibility to earn their own way.

Ah, okay, you swallow right-wing propaganda about being "forced" to help people and stupidly generalise and assume all poor people are ebul. Got it.

I would rather play all day than work also, so why should I be penalized by having to support people that won't work?

The problem is your worldview if you see it as a "penalisation", and also the fact that you fell for the racist "welfare queen" bullshit. Welfare cheats aren't even a significant minority of welfare recipients, in case you didn't know.

The ones that won't use the free birth control or abstain?

Because you actually believe bullshit urban legends about people having too many kids.

Forcibly taking money from me in the private sector would be extortion, but it's fine for the government

It's not forcible extortion, it's taxes, silly libertarian.

If I must support them, then they need to not have the right to vote until they get off the dole.

Congratulations on supporting disenfranchisement, you totalitarian.

This doesn't include retirees, as they have earned their place and paid for their services.

Blatant double standard.

Nice projection of your ideology's inability to hold water onto mine there, btw.

Nice projection of your ideology's inability to hold water and foundation of narcissistic lack of empathy onto mine.

[Mendersalv]

Hey don't argue about it, this is just your opinion, like what should we do about it, or is it a good thing, stuff like that!

[Zaras]

Hey don't argue about it, this is just your opinion, like what should we do about it, or is it a good thing, stuff like that!

That's just, like, your opinion, man.

"It's just your opinion" isn't really a good argument...

[Bug Out]

Again, your opinion.

I like the way you can just invoke "opinion" to enter into a circular argument that goes nowhere.

I just want limited federal government.

Don't think that's the best idea.

The states should take care of any local welfare or other needs. The federal government passes 1000's of laws a year without repealing any, but this is fodder for another thread.

The federal government should solve inequalities between states, though. That's how transfer payments work in Canada.

If you like the way your government works, then you are living in the right place.

I don't mind helping anyone, or even supporting the disabled.I do have a problem, however, with being forced to support the ticks that are happy with their station collecting and don't have the personal responsibility to earn their own way.

Ah, okay, you swallow right-wing propaganda about being "forced" to help people and stupidly generalise and assume all poor people are ebul. Got it.

Right wing propaganda? I didn't see anywhere on my tax statement where I could opt out of supporting well people that won't work. I don't "generalize" anything about poor people even though I don't have a clue what ebul is. Nothing wrong with being poor, and there is a difference in being poor and being professionally on the dole!

I would rather play all day than work also, so why should I be penalized by having to support people that won't work?

The problem is your worldview if you see it as a "penalisation", and also the fact that you fell for the racist "welfare queen" bullshit. Welfare cheats aren't even a significant minority of welfare recipients, in case you didn't know.

I can't speak for Canada, just for what I see in the projects and on the rez.

The ones that won't use the free birth control or abstain?

Because you actually believe bullshit urban legends about people having too many kids.

One is too many if you can't support it, so I don't think that's a legend.

Forcibly taking money from me in the private sector would be extortion, but it's fine for the government

It's not forcible extortion, it's taxes, silly libertarian.

It works out to be the same. If you don't pay, they'll take everything you have and imprison you. I think Canada is different on that. I know the UK is. If you don't pay property taxes there, they'll take your property after you die if your heirs don't pay them. Here, they'll put you in the street after less than 3 years.

If I must support them, then they need to not have the right to vote until they get off the dole.

Congratulations on supporting disenfranchisement, you totalitarian.

This doesn't include retirees, as they have earned their place and paid for their services.

Blatant double standard.

Thank you! I do hold someone that tries to a different standard than someone that doesn't. If you're able to work and are looking for it, then fine, I'm glad to help. If you're unable to work, fine, I'm glad to help. If you're just too sorry and expect to be carried you can kiss my red ass!

Nice projection of your ideology's inability to hold water onto mine there, btw.

Nice projection of your ideology's inability to hold water and foundation of narcissistic lack of empathy onto mine.

I don't and won't have empathy for ticks. A tick is someone that can work, but won't and expects society to take care of them. If you can't make it on one job, then get two. I have to. Are you somehow better, more deserving than I?

[Greater Nilfgaard]

Firefighters are heroes, doctors are heroes, soldiers are heroes. Derek Jeter is NOT a hero.

The fact that we even have to point this out says something about how fucked-up society's priorities can be.

Sports are second only to war in terms of how they let the Great Souled flourish.

Competition, Teamwork, Ambition. It's all there.

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

The fact that we even have to point this out says something about how fucked-up society's priorities can be.

Sports are second only to war in terms of how they let the Great Souled flourish.

Competition, Teamwork, Ambition. It's all there.

Meanwhile, outside of Sparta, what you're talking about is irrelevant to income equality.