What is your opinion on Income Inequality?

[Kleomentia]

No, not at all. But why would Mr Bob work hard to become a CEO of Random Inc if he could be a pizza delivery guy and get the same pay?

I don't know. I ran a lasertag venue for less per-hour money than my friend made as a pharmacist. If the two jobs had paid the same, I'd still have picked managing the lasertag venue.

On the other hand, when I did bar work, it paid considerably better than the training job I did at a data-process company, and had better hours - but I'd rather have the training job.

So long as people can meet their bills, the actual amount they get paid tends to be secondary.

Good to know.

[Grave_n_idle]

Are you under the impression that it's currently true that easy jobs are inherently linked to low pay, and hard jobs to high pay?

Why do you keep asking this question? I said no, im just saying that, usually, a job with higher pay needs more work to get to(at the least).

Which is a bizarre assertion. I'm not sure there's any correlation. For an example, look at recent Presidential hopeful Mitt Romney - the hardest job he's ever had is spending other people's money, and yet he's a multiple millionaire.

If anything, the deck is actually stacked the OTHER way in America - the more money it makes, the LESS work you, personally, have to put into it.

[Vetalia]

No, not at all. But why would Mr Bob work hard to become a CEO of Random Inc if he could be a pizza delivery guy and get the same pay?

Actually, I'd be surprised if any owner of a new company makes more than a pizza delivery guy...those first couple of years are very tough for any new business and are pretty lean on the compensation front unless you've got one heck of a breakthrough product or service.

[Kleomentia]

No, not at all. But why would Mr Bob work hard to become a CEO of Random Inc if he could be a pizza delivery guy and get the same pay?

Actually, I'd be surprised if any owner of a start-up business makes more than a pizza delivery guy...those first couple of years are very tough for any new business and are pretty lean on the compensation front unless you've got one heck of a breakthrough product or service.

Which in a few years brings you to a profit significantly bigger then a pizza guy. But thats just it. In a world like that, business mistakes dont matter. Why? Because you'll still earn the same and there are no consequences. And whats the point of that? Thats not a challenge, because in a challenge consequences exist.

[The United Communist Solar Republic]

Government should take possession of all private business. Problem solved. Hey, it worked in the Czech Republic.

[Vetalia]

Which is a bizarre assertion. I'm not sure there's any correlation. For an example, look at recent Presidential hopeful Mitt Romney - the hardest job he's ever had is spending other people's money, and yet he's a multiple millionaire.

If anything, the deck is actually stacked the OTHER way in America - the more money it makes, the LESS work you, personally, have to put into it.

I think what the poster is referring to is the investment in terms of education/training/certification needed to get those positions, e.g. anyone can pick be a janitor after a week of training but becoming a doctor/lawyer (or accountant ) involves multiple years of study to obtain the necessary skills.

[Evil Lord Bane]

Fuck the poor.

Wait a minute, I'm poor.

Fuck the rich.

[Kleomentia]

Which is a bizarre assertion. I'm not sure there's any correlation. For an example, look at recent Presidential hopeful Mitt Romney - the hardest job he's ever had is spending other people's money, and yet he's a multiple millionaire.

If anything, the deck is actually stacked the OTHER way in America - the more money it makes, the LESS work you, personally, have to put into it.

I think what the poster is referring to is the investment in terms of education/training/certification needed to get those positions, e.g. anyone can pick be a janitor after a week of training but becoming a doctor/lawyer (or accountant ) involves multiple years of study to obtain the necessary skills.

And doing operations is more complicated then cleaning the floor. Which is another factor.

[Vetalia]

Which in a few years brings you to a profit significantly bigger then a pizza guy. But thats just it. In a world like that, business mistakes dont matter. Why? Because you'll still earn the same and there are no consequences. And whats the point of that? Thats not a challenge, because in a challenge consequences exist.

Or you fail and you're back to square one, quite likely completely wiped out financially. My point is, for a lot of small business owners they're not doing it for the money at first...they could quite likely earn a safe, stable income doing something conventional but chose to strike out on their own instead.

[Kleomentia]

Fuck the poor.

Wait a minute, I'm poor.

Fuck the rich.

So you really dont care about the poor? As in, if you were rich you wouldn't give a rats ass about the people struggling to get a decent pay.

[Kleomentia]

Which in a few years brings you to a profit significantly bigger then a pizza guy. But thats just it. In a world like that, business mistakes dont matter. Why? Because you'll still earn the same and there are no consequences. And whats the point of that? Thats not a challenge, because in a challenge consequences exist.

Or you fail and you're back to square one, quite likely completely wiped out financially. My point is, for a lot of small business owners they're not doing it for the money at first...they could quite likely earn a safe, stable income doing something conventional but chose to strike out on their own instead.

Well they are doing it for the money, actually. How long it takes to get to the goal is a different story.

[Grave_n_idle]

I think what the poster is referring to is the investment in terms of education/training/certification needed to get those positions, e.g. anyone can pick be a janitor after a week of training but becoming a doctor/lawyer (or accountant ) involves multiple years of study to obtain the necessary skills.

And doing operations is more complicated then cleaning the floor. Which is another factor.

And yet, the floor does need cleaning.

(I'm not actually arguing for absolute equality of pay - I'm arguing AGAINST the idea that work and pay somehow connect in the real world).

[Kleomentia]

And doing operations is more complicated then cleaning the floor. Which is another factor.

And yet, the floor does need cleaning.

(I'm not actually arguing for absolute equality of pay - I'm arguing AGAINST the idea that work and pay somehow connect in the real world).

They dont always connect. But they should, which is a different story.

[Vetalia]

(I'm not actually arguing for absolute equality of pay - I'm arguing AGAINST the idea that work and pay somehow connect in the real world).

They don't, and they shouldn't. Simply working hard isn't justification for higher pay in and of itself, it's the value of the work performed and the scarcity of the labor able to do it that matters.

[Grave_n_idle]

Or you fail and you're back to square one, quite likely completely wiped out financially. My point is, for a lot of small business owners they're not doing it for the money at first...they could quite likely earn a safe, stable income doing something conventional but chose to strike out on their own instead.

Well they are doing it for the money, actually.

No, they're not... or rather, they're RARELY doing it for the money.

Most start-ups fail. Those that succeed, tend to be hard work for years, and barely succeed.

Most people that start small businesses are doing it for a reason like NOT wanting to work for someone else, or wanting to bring their personal product or service to market, or wanting to be self-sufficient. Almost no one gets rich, and if they wanted to - it would be easier to do it working for someone else, 99 times out of 100.

[Grave_n_idle]

(I'm not actually arguing for absolute equality of pay - I'm arguing AGAINST the idea that work and pay somehow connect in the real world).

They don't, and they shouldn't. Simply working hard isn't justification for higher pay in and of itself, it's the value of the work performed and the scarcity of the labor able to do it that matters.

I halfway agree - the value of the work definitely matters. Scarcity shouldn't affect how much your job pays, but it does.

[Kleomentia]

Well they are doing it for the money, actually.

No, they're not... or rather, they're RARELY doing it for the money.

Most start-ups fail. Those that succeed, tend to be hard work for years, and barely succeed.

Most people that start small businesses are doing it for a reason like NOT wanting to work for someone else, or wanting to bring their personal product or service to market, or wanting to be self-sufficient. Almost no one gets rich, and if they wanted to - it would be easier to do it working for someone else, 99 times out of 100.

Yet, people keep doing it. Because they have ambition and ideas. In a totally equal income society the number of ambitious people would be lowered significantly.

[Grave_n_idle]

And yet, the floor does need cleaning.

(I'm not actually arguing for absolute equality of pay - I'm arguing AGAINST the idea that work and pay somehow connect in the real world).

They dont always connect. But they should, which is a different story.

Indeed. I agree - professional athletes shouldn't make so much money.

[Grave_n_idle]

No, they're not... or rather, they're RARELY doing it for the money.

Most start-ups fail. Those that succeed, tend to be hard work for years, and barely succeed.

Most people that start small businesses are doing it for a reason like NOT wanting to work for someone else, or wanting to bring their personal product or service to market, or wanting to be self-sufficient. Almost no one gets rich, and if they wanted to - it would be easier to do it working for someone else, 99 times out of 100.

Yet, people keep doing it. Because they have ambition and ideas. In a totally equal income society the number of ambitious people would be lowered significantly.

You keep saying that.

If that were true - those people starting their own businesses would be working for someone else.

[Vetalia]

No, they're not... or rather, they're RARELY doing it for the money.

Most start-ups fail. Those that succeed, tend to be hard work for years, and barely succeed.

Most people that start small businesses are doing it for a reason like NOT wanting to work for someone else, or wanting to bring their personal product or service to market, or wanting to be self-sufficient. Almost no one gets rich, and if they wanted to - it would be easier to do it working for someone else, 99 times out of 100.

Absolutely.

I work exclusively with small business owners at my firm; the main reasons why they start their businesses is because they had a great idea they wanted to take advantage of, liked doing something as a hobby and decided to give it a go as their primary occupation and/or wanted to be their own boss rather than answering to some suit above them. One guy is particularly notable, he wanted to start a business in his industry to pioneer his own ideas of management and corporate organization and has succeeded quite spectacularly. Apparently turnover at the place is less than 2% per year because of how well he treats his employees, and they've certainly paid back in kind.

[Kleomentia]

Yet, people keep doing it. Because they have ambition and ideas. In a totally equal income society the number of ambitious people would be lowered significantly.

You keep saying that.

If that were true - those people starting their own businesses would be working for someone else.

Meh not really. They would be self employed. But they wouldnt have fear of failure in a matter of pay since they could always get a job as a janitor and get the same pay.

[Kleomentia]

They dont always connect. But they should, which is a different story.

Indeed. I agree - professional athletes shouldn't make so much money.

Indeed. What was once a game is now a over payed and overrated job.

[Zaras]

Government should take possession of all private business. Problem solved. Hey, it worked in the Czech Republic.

Except that it didn't.

[Vetalia]

I halfway agree - the value of the work definitely matters. Scarcity shouldn't affect how much your job pays, but it does.

I think scarcity is the only easy way to determine labor value; people who have skillsets that are in demand get paid more, people with less are paid more.

Of course, sometimes the whole situation reverses, e.g. back in the mid-80's the biggest employer of petroleum engineers in Texas was said to be Safeway, or in the early 2000's after the dot-com bubble burst hundreds of thousands of IT workers lost their jobs while the janitors and construction workers kept theirs.

[Priory Academy USSR]

Government should take possession of all private business. Problem solved. Hey, it worked in the Czech Republic.

Except that it didn't.

You want to say that again?