Why I think religion is inherently bad. [POLL ADDED]

[Ordya]

Christians are the only religious group that still get killed for their faith. In Muslim countries, they are the minority.

Source that first claim.

You have two arms and a keyboard, do it yourself.

[Sentinel XV]

Source? I truly find this hard to believe. Perhaps in certain regions, but I hardly doubt in the world.

Christians are the only religious group that still get killed for their faith. In Muslim countries, they are the minority.

You're only giving me anecdotes, and no tangible proof to your claim. They may be the minority, but I would say that the Muslims themselves are the most persecuted in those countries (what with inter-faith feuds, a la Sunni vs. Shiite), and not Christians. Anyways, I'm still waiting on that source. Not to be rude, but to have a rationale, confident debate we must keep our claims within the realm of the factual.

[Ostroeuropa]

Cos mah Pastor tells me so wut wut!
*shoots a pistol into the sky*
This is PRECISELY the kind of shoddy thinking religion trains you to do. Next time someone gives you a claim like that, ask them for a source.

Damn you know you'r just not funny.

I'd rather be unfunny while trying to be, than hilarious when trying to be serious.

[Ostroeuropa]

Source that first claim.

You have two arms and a keyboard, do it yourself.

Not how this works squire. You made a bullshit claim on a debating forum. Source it or shove it

[Nightkill the Emperor]

Source that first claim.

You have two arms and a keyboard, do it yourself.

No, I look forward to your source since your claim is bullshit.

[Vortropolis]

Oh man, I want this source.

http://www.christianpost.com/news/christians-most-persecuted-religious-group-in-the-world-says-expert-74332/

Maybe?

We'll see.

The only place right now that i really see a lot of persecution on christians is on the internet, where atheists are at the peak of their power.

[Genivaria]

Ok, so you found a guy who persecuted christians, I can pull up case studies too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedro_de_Arbu%C3%A9s

You realize christians are currently the most persecuted minority in the world right now, right?

.....Christians are a minority since when?

[Mavorpen]

Source? I truly find this hard to believe. Perhaps in certain regions, but I hardly doubt in the world.

Christians are the only religious group that still get killed for their faith. In Muslim countries, they are the minority.

Because Buddhists haven't been persecuted in those same countries, right?

[Nightkill the Emperor]

You realize christians are currently the most persecuted minority in the world right now, right?

.....Christians are a minority since when?

In the whole world, yes, but there they make up a plurality.

[Obamacult]

The OP's 809 million number is wrong. No way did the wars that he listed add up to this number. His own primary source lists these blood-lettings as the worst things that man has done to each other:

Death Toll Cause Centuries
66 million Second World War 20C

40 million Mao Zedong (mostly famine) 20C

40 million Genghis Khan 13C

27 million British India (mostly famine) 19C

25 million Fall of the Ming Dynasty 17C

20 million Taiping Rebellion 19C

20 million Joseph Stalin 20C

18½ million Mideast Slave Trade 7C-19C

17 million Timur Lenk 14C-15C

16 million Atlantic Slave Trade 15C-19C

15 million First World War 20C

15 million Conquest of the Americas 15C-19C

13 million An Lushan Revolt 8C

10 million Xin Dynasty 1C

10 million Congo Free State 19C-20C

9 million Russian Civil War 20C

7½ million Thirty Years War 17C

7½ million Fall of the Yuan Dynasty 14C

7 million Fall of Rome 5C

7 million Chinese Civil Wars 20C

http://necrometrics.com/pre1700a.htm#20worst

Seriously, it would be a leap of faith to believe that religion was the primary cause of most of these (no pun intended). And really, if these are the worst twenty things that have happened to mankind, how in the hell is the OP going to find 809 million in a list of religious deaths? I asked some posters to give me their numbers, and I haven't seen anything close to even 100 million. And the lists I do see include wars and conflicts in which religious people are really victims or religion is not the major cause of the war or conflict.

I mean were attacking religious people because they believe in what we consider fantasy, and this 809 million number is the biggest fantasy of all.

Just saying.

It's a response to the "Well stalin was an atheist!!"
These people were RELIGIOUS and killed.
They may not have killed BECAUSE of religion. That's our point.
Stalin didn't kill BECAUSE he was an atheist, but plenty of people have killed BECAUSE they are religious.
If they say "WELL THAT DOESNT MATTER!"
Then we can say "Ok then, your score is 809 million if we're not counting motivations."

I think the OP was claiming that 809 million were killed by religious people, he doesn't approve of religion and he was arguing that religious people were the most prolific killers in history. But I agree with you that many of these killings are really religious groups getting victimized or persecuted. So yeah, it sucks to be criticized and attacked because you are getting gassed or executed by atheists.

[Suidwes-Afrika]

You have two arms and a keyboard, do it yourself.

Not how this works squire. You made a bullshit claim on a debating forum. Source it or shove it

I must agree. On NSG, sources mean a lot. Unless proven otherwise, you're pulling everything out of your arse.

[Ostroeuropa]

First off, it COMPLETELY ignores the fact that there is a Shia/Sunni divide, secondly it ignores the radical Hinduists and the Pakistan-India problem, thirdly it ignores persecution of buddhists in china.

[Sentinel XV]

Oh man, I want this source.

http://www.christianpost.com/news/christians-most-persecuted-religious-group-in-the-world-says-expert-74332/

Maybe?

We'll see.

WASHINGTON – The head of a California-based evangelical religious liberty group stated Thursday that Christianity is presently the most persecuted religion on earth based on evidence gathered.

Highly unlikely based on the cited research group, and the site itself. If you read on, you'll see that their "research" is decidedly sketchy.

[Nightkill the Emperor]

Not how this works squire. You made a bullshit claim on a debating forum. Source it or shove it

I must agree. On NSG, sources mean a lot. Unless proven otherwise, you're pulling everything out of your arse.

Which they generally are.

[Ordya]

You have two arms and a keyboard, do it yourself.

Not how this works squire. You made a bullshit claim on a debating forum. Source it or shove it

So it's bullshit if it contradicts what you're saying? Lovely. Of course it would be, you're a human, your first instinct is to win, mot reach the truth. So, I will not fault you for your genes' ignorance.

[Nightkill the Emperor]

Not how this works squire. You made a bullshit claim on a debating forum. Source it or shove it

So it's bullshit if it contradicts what you're saying? Lovely. Of course it would be, you're a human, your first instinct is to win, mot reach the truth. So, I will not fault you for your genes' ignorance.

It's bullshit because Hindus, Buddhists and Jews are also killed in those same Muslim countries. Especially them. Christians are "People of the Book" who are not Jews and more accepted.

[Vortropolis]

Damn you know you'r just not funny.

I'd rather be unfunny while trying to be, than hilarious when trying to be serious.

ok....

[Genivaria]

Not how this works squire. You made a bullshit claim on a debating forum. Source it or shove it

So it's bullshit if it contradicts what you're saying? Lovely. Of course it would be, you're a human, your first instinct is to win, mot reach the truth. So, I will not fault you for your genes' ignorance.

Ok so your NOT going to provide proof for your bullshit claim?
Alrighty then I think we're done here.

[Ostroeuropa]

Not how this works squire. You made a bullshit claim on a debating forum. Source it or shove it

So it's bullshit if it contradicts what you're saying? Lovely. Of course it would be, you're a human, your first instinct is to win, mot reach the truth. So, I will not fault you for your genes' ignorance.

It's bullshit because in those same muslim countries, the muslims will gladly leave a christian alone if it means they can kill a shia/sunni.

[Suidwes-Afrika]

http://www.christianpost.com/news/christians-most-persecuted-religious-group-in-the-world-says-expert-74332/

Maybe?

We'll see.

The only place right now that i really see a lot of persecution on christians is on the internet, where atheists are at the peak of their power.

Can name a few places where I have seen real persecution of Christians firsthand.

1) Saudi Arabia - Bibles banned, church meetings, banned. Went to the latter anyway and they didn't give a monkey's unless a Saudi national specifically complained. Expats often kept non-Arabic Bibles.

2) Burma - self explanatory, but they persecute nearly everybody (including Muslims) there anyway.

[Sentinel XV]

Source? I truly find this hard to believe. Perhaps in certain regions, but I hardly doubt in the world.

Christians are the only religious group that still get killed for their faith. In Muslim countries, they are the minority.

Uh, no? You see Buddhists, Sikhs, and Muslims killed for their faith in those exact same countries. Here in the States, you can read of cases of religiously-motivated murder (recall the Sikhs murdered in Wisconsin). That is a baseless claim.

[Vortropolis]

The only place right now that i really see a lot of persecution on christians is on the internet, where atheists are at the peak of their power.

Can name a few places where I have seen real persecution of Christians firsthand.

1) Saudi Arabia - Bibles banned, church meetings, banned. Went to the latter anyway and they didn't give a monkey's unless a Saudi national specifically complained. Expats often kept non-Arabic Bibles.

2) Burma - self explanatory, but they persecute nearly everybody (including Muslims) there anyway.

oh interesting...

[Ostroeuropa]

The only place right now that i really see a lot of persecution on christians is on the internet, where atheists are at the peak of their power.

Can name a few places where I have seen real persecution of Christians firsthand.

1) Saudi Arabia - Bibles banned, church meetings, banned. Went to the latter anyway and they didn't give a monkey's unless a Saudi national specifically complained. Expats often kept non-Arabic Bibles.

2) Burma - self explanatory, but they persecute nearly everybody (including Muslims) there anyway.

I'm glad to see that people are beginning to take the British view that we should insist on calling it Burma instead of Myanmar.
(Seriously, i'm glad. the dictators just renamed the country for ideological reasons, we shouldn't appease them by using that name.)

[Suidwes-Afrika]

http://www.christianpost.com/news/christians-most-persecuted-religious-group-in-the-world-says-expert-74332/

Maybe?

We'll see.

WASHINGTON – The head of a California-based evangelical religious liberty group stated Thursday that Christianity is presently the most persecuted religion on earth based on evidence gathered.

Highly unlikely based on the cited research group, and the site itself. If you read on, you'll see that their "research" is decidedly sketchy.

My point precisely. I also happen to believe that the speaker in question is overreacting to some of the other issues at hand.

Although....the Vatican does make the same claim.

http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=39851#.ULrXtD3wqAg

And Angela Merkel.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/merkel-calls-christianity-worlds-most-persecuted-religion/

[Ordya]

Christians are the only religious group that still get killed for their faith. In Muslim countries, they are the minority.

Uh, no? You see Buddhists, Sikhs, and Muslims killed for their faith in those exact same countries. Here in the States, you can read of cases of religiously-motivated murder (recall the Sikhs murdered in Wisconsin). That is a baseless claim.

I didn't say others weren't murdered, there are just almost always more christians than others.

Sourced:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/9640825/Christians-persecuted-throughout-the-world.html

Your intolerance disgusts me.