Why I think religion is inherently bad. [POLL ADDED]

[Ordya]

There tends to be a reason i said current

The ones where gays are going to hell, they don't deserve to marry, women are worth less than a bunch of cells, etc?

No thanks.

Jesus never said that.

[Ostroeuropa]

The OP's 809 million number is wrong. No way did the wars that he listed add up to this number. His own primary source lists these blood-lettings as the worst things that man has done to each other:

Death Toll Cause Centuries
66 million Second World War 20C

40 million Mao Zedong (mostly famine) 20C

40 million Genghis Khan 13C

27 million British India (mostly famine) 19C

25 million Fall of the Ming Dynasty 17C

20 million Taiping Rebellion 19C

20 million Joseph Stalin 20C

18½ million Mideast Slave Trade 7C-19C

17 million Timur Lenk 14C-15C

16 million Atlantic Slave Trade 15C-19C

15 million First World War 20C

15 million Conquest of the Americas 15C-19C

13 million An Lushan Revolt 8C

10 million Xin Dynasty 1C

10 million Congo Free State 19C-20C

9 million Russian Civil War 20C

7½ million Thirty Years War 17C

7½ million Fall of the Yuan Dynasty 14C

7 million Fall of Rome 5C

7 million Chinese Civil Wars 20C

http://necrometrics.com/pre1700a.htm#20worst

Seriously, it would be a leap of faith to believe that religion was the primary cause of most of these (no pun intended). And really, if these are the worst twenty things that have happened to mankind, how in the hell is the OP going to find 809 million in a list of religious deaths? I asked some posters to give me their numbers, and I haven't seen anything close to even 100 million. And the lists I do see include wars and conflicts in which religious people are really victims or religion is not the major cause of the war or conflict.

I mean were attacking religious people because they believe in what we consider fantasy, and this 809 million number is the biggest fantasy of all.

Just saying.

It's a response to the "Well stalin was an atheist!!"
These people were RELIGIOUS and killed.
They may not have killed BECAUSE of religion. That's our point.
Stalin didn't kill BECAUSE he was an atheist, but plenty of people have killed BECAUSE they are religious.
If they say "WELL THAT DOESNT MATTER!"
Then we can say "Ok then, your score is 809 million if we're not counting motivations."

[Valkmar]

There tends to be a reason i said current

The ones where gays are going to hell, they don't deserve to marry, women are worth less than a bunch of cells, etc?

No thanks.

I meant the normal Christians who aren't insane like the minority, but you are proving my previous point in the OP.

http://www.landoverbaptist.net/showthread.php?t=51266

I didn't like this, it makes me a sad human being..

[Mavorpen]

...yes it is. If there is a limit to something, you cannot go past it. Or, in other words, past X amount of natural resources on the Earth, past X standard of living, below X casualties.

No it isn't. I acknowledge our inability to detect branes or empirically prove Eternal Inflation. I have yet to actually state that therefore we should give up on questions concerning the beginning of the universe.

But the degree to which it's expressed and the form it takes are influenced by the environment.

Which again has nothing to do with religion.

For another example, the speed of light. If exceeding it is impossible, what's the point of attempting that?

For one, scientists still accept that you cannot accelerate past the speed of light. They are searching for ways around this though. Thanks for proving your own claims wrong.

[Mavorpen]

The ones where gays are going to hell, they don't deserve to marry, women are worth less than a bunch of cells, etc?

No thanks.

Jesus never said that.

Why are you even talking to me then?

[The New World Oceania]

You "handed me my ass."

I'm not sure if you're trying to convince me God exists, or prove middle-school argument strategies legitimate, but I'm going to have to drop out of this talk if your best response is "Your mother."

So ignoring the two parts where I respond to you, and focusing on where I use your mother in response to you using an equally vapid and pointless remark.
How intellectually honest of you.
So we see a pattern emerge where you don't like to acknowledge where you've been shown up.
That's two for two, by the way.

Get over it, bro.

[The New World Oceania]

Jesus never said that.

Why are you even talking to me then?

Jesus told him to.

[Ordya]

concerning the beginning of the universe.

The beginning of the universe is irrelevant as to how we use our time in it.

[Vortropolis]

The OP's 809 million number is wrong. No way did the wars that he listed add up to this number. His own primary source lists these blood-lettings as the worst things that man has done to each other:

Death Toll Cause Centuries
66 million Second World War 20C

40 million Mao Zedong (mostly famine) 20C

40 million Genghis Khan 13C

27 million British India (mostly famine) 19C

25 million Fall of the Ming Dynasty 17C

20 million Taiping Rebellion 19C

20 million Joseph Stalin 20C

18½ million Mideast Slave Trade 7C-19C

17 million Timur Lenk 14C-15C

16 million Atlantic Slave Trade 15C-19C

15 million First World War 20C

15 million Conquest of the Americas 15C-19C

13 million An Lushan Revolt 8C

10 million Xin Dynasty 1C

10 million Congo Free State 19C-20C

9 million Russian Civil War 20C

7½ million Thirty Years War 17C

7½ million Fall of the Yuan Dynasty 14C

7 million Fall of Rome 5C

7 million Chinese Civil Wars 20C

http://necrometrics.com/pre1700a.htm#20worst

Seriously, it would be a leap of faith to believe that religion was the primary cause of most of these (no pun intended). And really, if these are the worst twenty things that have happened to mankind, how in the hell is the OP going to find 809 million in a list of religious deaths? I asked some posters to give me their numbers, and I haven't seen anything close to even 100 million. And the lists I do see include wars and conflicts in which religious people are really victims or religion is not the major cause of the war or conflict.

I mean were attacking religious people because they believe in what we consider fantasy, and this 809 million number is the biggest fantasy of all.

Just saying.

It's a response to the "Well stalin was an atheist!!"
These people were RELIGIOUS and killed.
They may not have killed BECAUSE of religion. That's our point.
Stalin didn't kill BECAUSE he was an atheist, but plenty of people have killed BECAUSE they are religious.
If they say "WELL THAT DOESNT MATTER!"
Then we can say "Ok then, your score is 809 million if we're not counting motivations."

although ''His government promoted atheism through special atheistic education''.

[Mavorpen]

concerning the beginning of the universe.

The beginning of the universe is irrelevant as to how we use our time in it.

Bullshit, since it would be useful to know should we live long enough to see the death of the universe.

[Tlaceceyaya]

concerning the beginning of the universe.

The beginning of the universe is irrelevant as to how we use our time in it.

When you only want to address part of someone's post, quote them and then just snip out all of the other stuff. That way, we know whose post you're quoting and can find it easily.

[Ostroeuropa]

It's a response to the "Well stalin was an atheist!!"
These people were RELIGIOUS and killed.
They may not have killed BECAUSE of religion. That's our point.
Stalin didn't kill BECAUSE he was an atheist, but plenty of people have killed BECAUSE they are religious.
If they say "WELL THAT DOESNT MATTER!"
Then we can say "Ok then, your score is 809 million if we're not counting motivations."

although ''His government promoted atheism through special atheistic education''.

So did all the governments listed therein promote religion through education.
Your point?
If we count motivations, the religious are WAYYYYYYY in the lead in terms of people killed.
If we discount motivations, the religious are WAYYYYYYY in the lead in terms of people killed.

[Ordya]

Why are you even talking to me then?

Jesus told him to.

No he didn't, the voice in my head that I call Steve, did.

[Mavorpen]

although ''His government promoted atheism through special atheistic education''.

Because two "Gods" is conflicting and hindering to Stalin's plans.

[Ordya]

The beginning of the universe is irrelevant as to how we use our time in it.

Bullshit, since it would be useful to know should we live long enough to see the death of the universe.

Why?

[Vortropolis]

although ''His government promoted atheism through special atheistic education''.

So did all the governments listed therein promote religion through education.
Your point?
If we count motivations, the religious are WAYYYYYYY in the lead in terms of people killed.
If we discount motivations, the religious are WAYYYYYYY in the lead in terms of people killed.

He supported atheism.

[Ostroeuropa]

So did all the governments listed therein promote religion through education.
Your point?
If we count motivations, the religious are WAYYYYYYY in the lead in terms of people killed.
If we discount motivations, the religious are WAYYYYYYY in the lead in terms of people killed.

He supported atheism.

Yes, and? He didn't kill people because of his Atheism.
All the leaders in WW1 were religious and supported religion.

[Mavorpen]

Bullshit, since it would be useful to know should we live long enough to see the death of the universe.

Why?

Because then you could escape it (theoretically).

[Ordya]

He supported atheism.

Yes, and? He didn't kill people because of his Atheism.
All the leaders in WW1 were religious and supported religion.

So, I'm sure they supported breathing, too. What does that to do with anything?

[The New World Oceania]

Why?

Because then you could escape it (theoretically).

Otherwise commonly referred to as death?…

Yes, and? He didn't kill people because of his Atheism.
All the leaders in WW1 were religious and supported religion.

So, I'm sure they supported breathing, too. What does that to do with anything?

Breathing kills.

[Mavorpen]

Because then you could escape it (theoretically).

Otherwise commonly referred to as death?…

What the actual fuck are you talking about.

[Ordya]

Why?

Because then you could escape it (theoretically).

No, you can't. If the universe is ever expanding, and it implodes, you're gone too.

[Ostroeuropa]

Yes, and? He didn't kill people because of his Atheism.
All the leaders in WW1 were religious and supported religion.

So, I'm sure they supported breathing, too. What does that to do with anything?

That's our point.
If you say
"Stalin was an atheist, and killed loads of people. Therefore, atheism kills more people than religion has." that's completely untrue, because if you use the SAME CRITERIA, lots of people were religious and killed people, 809 million people to be exact.

BUT
If you say
"Stalin didn't kill anyone because of his atheism, he killed them for other reasons. However, religious people have killed because of their religion." thats true too.
By both sets of criteria, the religious have killed more people.
I say the second should be used.
They insist on the first one for Atheism, but the second one for religion.

[Mavorpen]

Because then you could escape it (theoretically).

No, you can't. If the universe is ever expanding, and it implodes, you're gone too.

You should actually try reading some current science.

[Valkmar]

No, you can't. If the universe is ever expanding, and it implodes, you're gone too.

You should actually try reading some current science.

Lets not get off topic.