Why I think religion is inherently bad. [POLL ADDED]

[Ostroeuropa]

You'd be wrong, and so are they. You can research it.

I don't believe some of the stuff it says but i do believe the number of deaths.

It doesn't count WW1. It doesn't count WW2.
It doesn't count all the colonial deaths.
Nor does it count deaths due to scientific illiteracy.

[Ordya]

Isn't that where you use Satan as a symbol to represent the natural faliability of humans?

faliability ?

That humans are not intended to be pure of sin?

[Big Jim P]

faliability ?

That humans are not intended to be pure of sin?

Humans are not intended to be anything. There is no being to have these intentions.

Oh, and as I have said elsewhere, I am pure of sin, and indeed am incapable of committing sin.

[Vortropolis]

I don't believe some of the stuff it says but i do believe the number of deaths.

It doesn't count WW1. It doesn't count WW2.
It doesn't count all the colonial deaths.
Nor does it count deaths due to scientific illiteracy.

Ya i mean christianity has caused the deaths of many people don't get me wrong, but i think atheism still tops it on number of deaths.

[Ordya]

That humans are not intended to be pure of sin?

Humans are not intended to be anything. There is no being to have these intentions.

So, life is meaningless?

[Mavorpen]

It also has the power to inspire people to achieve more than the real world would allow them to, according to current precepts.

Not really. People inspire themselves. It's just significantly easier to do it when you adhere to a self-centered religion that claims that you're special and that doing something will please an all powerful being that for some reason cares about a speck of dust in a vast universe.

[Big Jim P]

Humans are not intended to be anything. There is no being to have these intentions.

So, life is meaningless?

Did I say that?

[Ostroeuropa]

Humans are not intended to be anything. There is no being to have these intentions.

So, life is meaningless?

No, it means we get to decide whatever meaning we would like our life to have, rather than have someone else give us a meaning we may not particularly like, and that they cannot prove exists at an objective level.

[Akadia North]

T'was a joke referring to how someone would refer to someone who stated those beliefs. I, myself, am a Liberal Christian.

I see what you did there. Nice one.

[Ordya]

So, life is meaningless?

Did I say that?

No.

[The USOT]

It is mean spirited to be offended by anyone who thinks I deserve to burn for all eternity?

I don't believe in a Hell of fire and damnation. Am I still on your list of people to dislike simply because of their belifs?

Nope. Or at least from the beleifs im aware that you have.

[Ordya]

So, life is meaningless?

No, it means we get to decide whatever meaning we would like our life to have, rather than have someone else give us a meaning we may not particularly like, and that they cannot prove exists at an objective level.

We do that already.

[Ostroeuropa]

No, it means we get to decide whatever meaning we would like our life to have, rather than have someone else give us a meaning we may not particularly like, and that they cannot prove exists at an objective level.

We do that already.

so then life isn't meaningless, obviously.
So long as their is life, it gives itself meaning.


As to your earlier question, yes, I do think you are silly for believing in heaven too. Especially if its the eternal kind. That's a horrible fate to wish on people

[Big Jim P]

Did I say that?

No.

Then why the question?

[Ordya]

We do that already.

so then life isn't meaningless, obviously.
So long as their is life, it gives itself meaning.


As to your earlier question, yes, I do think you are silly for believing in heaven too. Especially if its the eternal kind. That's a horrible fate to wish on people

1) That's like saying God exists simply because we believe in Him.
2) Why?

[Xeng He]

Not really. People inspire themselves. It's just significantly easier to do it when you adhere to a self-centered religion that claims that you're special and that doing something will please an all powerful being that for some reason cares about a speck of dust in a vast universe.

But...hum...how to phrase...

...that's not the only way religion (and really the supernatural) can make it easier to do. The idea that theoretically anything, no matter how preposterous, is possible if only one has the will and the intellect to carry it forward opens doors in ways more purely rational constraints cannot. By their very nature.

I mean, look at the history of economics. Huge amounts of humanity's achievements have resulted from the fact that ideas once thought to be impossible (creating resources from nothing) happened.

[Ostroeuropa]

so then life isn't meaningless, obviously.
So long as their is life, it gives itself meaning.


As to your earlier question, yes, I do think you are silly for believing in heaven too. Especially if its the eternal kind. That's a horrible fate to wish on people

1) That's like saying God exists simply because we believe in Him.
2) Why?

1. No, it is nothing like saying that. Because meaning is found within the observer, not the observed. It doesn't exist independent of a subject. It is subjective. God existing is nothing like that. You have essentially just said that the fact that money has value is "Just like saying god exists." no, it isn't. We decided money has value, thats what gives it value. It isn't INHERENTLY valueable. If you don't understand this i can elaborate but i'm hoping you will.

2. What are they going to do after they've done everything for the 10000th time? Do you have any idea what kind of nightmare it would be to know that you will NEVER die?

[Tlaceceyaya]

so then life isn't meaningless, obviously.
So long as their is life, it gives itself meaning.


As to your earlier question, yes, I do think you are silly for believing in heaven too. Especially if its the eternal kind. That's a horrible fate to wish on people

1) That's like saying God exists simply because we believe in Him.
2) Why?

1: Only because it's worded poorly. A better wording would be that life has no meaning, but you can make one up on a personal level.
2: Eternity. Forever. All of time. Of the time since the big bang, a mere 13.7 billion years, 0% of eternity, the most you will experience if you live to be a hundred is 7.29927007e^-9% of it. You can't even visualize that small a percentage, or even about 1/5th of it, which is approximately how old the average NSGer is. Now try visualizing forever. Still can't. Now try imagining what the fuck you'd do for eternity.

[Mavorpen]

But...hum...how to phrase...

...that's not the only way religion (and really the supernatural) can make it easier to do. The idea that theoretically anything, no matter how preposterous, is possible if only one has the will and the intellect to carry it forward opens doors in ways more purely rational constraints cannot. By their very nature.

Such an idea is harmful to society, so not sure where you're getting this from.

I mean, look at the history of economics. Huge amounts of humanity's achievements have resulted from the fact that ideas once thought to be impossible (creating resources from nothing) happened.

Humans have a natural desire to seek knowledge about their surroundings, and by extension, learn. This has nothing to do with religion.

[The New World Oceania]

I don't believe some of the stuff it says but i do believe the number of deaths.

It doesn't count WW1. It doesn't count WW2.
It doesn't count all the colonial deaths.
Nor does it count deaths due to scientific illiteracy.

Namely because none if these have been caused by religion. On a list of wines, there will not be a liquor. On a list of deaths caused by religion, there will not be scientific illiteracy, which is a purely absurd idea in a number of developed areas, where science is shoved down people's throats- the internet is one of these places.

Who id anything about Newton? Your science is incredibly out of date.

Your sarcasm-meter is incredibly out of date.

2. What are they going to do after they've done everything for the 10000th time? Do you have any idea what kind of nightmare it would be to know that you will NEVER die?

The concept of a heaven bases on the idea that it is a perfect place, not where people get sore hands from playing golf with Jesus and Buddha.

[The New World Oceania]

2: Eternity. Forever. All of time. Of the time since the big bang, a mere 13.7 billion years, 0% of eternity, the most you will experience if you live to be a hundred is 7.29927007e^-9% of it. You can't even visualize that small a percentage, or even about 1/5th of it, which is approximately how old the average NSGer is. Now try visualizing forever. Still can't. Now try imagining what the fuck you'd do for eternity.

Mormons win.
Godhood, bitchess!

[Tlaceceyaya]

2: Eternity. Forever. All of time. Of the time since the big bang, a mere 13.7 billion years, 0% of eternity, the most you will experience if you live to be a hundred is 7.29927007e^-9% of it. You can't even visualize that small a percentage, or even about 1/5th of it, which is approximately how old the average NSGer is. Now try visualizing forever. Still can't. Now try imagining what the fuck you'd do for eternity.

Mormons win.
Godhood, bitchess!

And after they've been a god for 1e^1000000 years?

[Valkmar]

Whilst religion is bad, i will give it the fact that it sets down a basic code of morals.

[Ostroeuropa]

It doesn't count WW1. It doesn't count WW2.
It doesn't count all the colonial deaths.
Nor does it count deaths due to scientific illiteracy.

Namely because none if these have been caused by religion. On a list of wines, there will not be a liquor. On a list of deaths caused by religion, there will not be scientific illiteracy, which is a purely absurd idea in a number of developed areas, where science is shoved down people's throats- the internet is one of these places.

Who id anything about Newton? Your science is incredibly out of date.

Your sarcasm-meter is incredibly out of date.

2. What are they going to do after they've done everything for the 10000th time? Do you have any idea what kind of nightmare it would be to know that you will NEVER die?

The concept of a heaven bases on the idea that it is a perfect place, not where people get sore hands from playing golf with Jesus and Buddha.

Ah, so you realized your previous attempts were such complete fail you've decided to go through the thread picking out all the bits you think you have a long-shot at beating me on, WITHOUT replying to the post where I handed you your ass.
Well, more power to you.
Let's go through your post.

1.
WW1 was caused by western imperialism, which is very heavily based in Christianity as a justification.
WW2 was caused by WW1.
Colonialism -> Christianity as justification.
Scientific Illiteracy -> Dark ages. we're about 700 years behind tech wise thanks to christianity.
(http://www.jstor.org/stable/25105052)

2.
No YOUR mother!

3.
Either the mind atrophies, which seems like a fairly horrific fate, or it doesn't. People will get bored of perfection too, given enough time. (And by definition, we do have enough time.)

[Sentinel XV]

Whilst religion is bad, i will give it the fact that it sets down a basic code of morals.

Including that it's OK to keep slaves, rape a woman (providing that you're willing to pay her father and take her as your wife), sell people as property, etc.?