Palestine has been upgraded to non-member state

[Kengburg]

So tell me again how Israel is a warmongerer and evil? TELL ME HOW, WHAT EXCUSE DO YOU HAVE. I mean seriously, the evidence is all right there.

Did you know that once upon a time France and Britain invaded Germany and told them to pay gajillions of dollars to 'make up for it'?????? So tell me how the Nazis are supposed to be evil warmongerers!!!!! THE EVIDENCE SKJDFJKADSFNLASD

You make about as much sense as Sarah Palin on meth...

[Tubbsalot]

You make about as much sense as Sarah Palin on meth...

Sorry, I'll simplify for you, shall I?

"Arabs did bad things" in no way nullifies the fact that Israel does bad things right now, in the same way "France and Britain were mean to Germany" in no way justifies the Holocaust or WW2.

Do you understand now?

[Kengburg]

All my thoughts in one Herkanstad. I would like to add some additional notes on this.

1.Since 1964, Arab countries were trying to divert the headwaters of the Jordan river to deprive Israel of water resources, provoking tensions with Syria and Lebanon. Arab nationalists led by Egyptian President Gamal Abdel Nasser refused to recognize Israel, and called for its destruction. By 1966, Israeli-Arab relations had deteriorated to the point of actual battles taking place between Israeli and Arab forces. In 1967, Egypt expelled UN peacekeepers, stationed in the Sinai Peninsula since 1957, and announced a partial blockade of Israel's access to the Red Sea.
2.Following the war, Israel faced much internal resistance from the Arab Palestinians and Egyptian hostilities in the Sinai. Most important among the various Palestinian and Arab groups was the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO), established in 1964, which initially committed itself to "armed struggle as the only way to liberate the homeland". In the late 1960s and early 1970s, Palestinian groups launched a wave of attacks against Israeli and Jewish targets around the world, including a massacre of Israeli athletes at the 1972 Summer Olympics in Munich.
3.In July 1976 Israeli commandos carried out a rescue mission which succeeded in rescuing 102 hostages who were being held by Palestinian guerillas at Entebbe International Airport close to Kampala, Uganda.
4.On 11 March 1978, a PLO guerilla raid from Lebanon led to the Coastal Road Massacre, in which 38 Israeli civilians were killed and 71 injured. Israel responded by launching an invasion of southern Lebanon to destroy the PLO bases south of the Litani River. Most PLO fighters withdrew, but Israel was able to secure southern Lebanon until a UN force and the Lebanese army could take over. However, the PLO soon resumed its policy of attacks against Israel. In the next few years the PLO infiltrated back south and kept up a sporadic shelling across the border.
5.In 1992, Yitzhak Rabin became Prime Minister following an election in which his party called for compromise with Israel's neighbors. The following year, Shimon Peres on behalf of Israel, and Mahmoud Abbas for the PLO, signed the Oslo Accords, which gave the Palestinian National Authority the right to govern parts of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. The PLO also recognized Israel's right to exist and pledged an end to terrorism.
6. And currently in 2012....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel,_2012

So tell me again how Israel is a warmongerer and evil? TELL ME HOW, WHAT EXCUSE DO YOU HAVE.

I doubt you even read my comment moron, the PLO is the one who is launching rockets on Israel

[Kengburg]

Let me just say this, we all know, this year, Palestine launched rockets on Israel, it is a fact, it is in the news, it will be in history. How is Israel doing something "wrong" if Palestine is the one attacking it? To use your (extremely flawed) example of WWII, it is like the Reich bombing London and you telling the UK they are horrible people and Germany is innocent.

[Tubbsalot]

I doubt you even read my comment moron, the PLO is the one who is launching rockets on Israel

I know various Palestinian organisations are firing rockets into Israel (not the PLO, though. maybe you should actually read up on these things before you say them). That's why I just made a comment saying "it doesn't justify Israel also doing terrible things." Palestinians doing bad things doesn't mean it's a-OK for Israel, a wealthy first-world nation, to do the same back. We expect them to have some consideration for things like civilian lives.

Also, 'you're a moron' is a flame, and against the rules, and will get you warned or banned if you keep it up.

[Tubbsalot]

How is Israel doing something "wrong" if Palestine is the one attacking it?

Nobody is saying Israel is bad for having rockets fired at it. It's more because they're firing rockets back, at civilian-heavy areas. And building settlements in contravention of international law. And enforcing a crippling blockade which is creating massive poverty and distress in Gaza.

Among many other things.

[Kengburg]

(It is pretty sad you get so offended by being called a moron) But besides that, so you are saying, Israel should just not defend itself and lay there and do nothing, you are basically telling Israel, "tough luck, you cant defend yourself" what nation would just not do anything? Israelis are dying, structures and buildings are being destroyed, and you say "Just lay there and die Israel" That is the most idiotic idea I have ever heard, its like saying if Mexico launches missiles into Houston, the US should not do anything about it because we are better off than Mexico. And what things has Israel done wrong? Defending Itself? Defending the People who are being attacked by Palestine? I say no, it does not matter who is attacking, if someone launches missiles into a sovereign countries borders, kills civilians, destroys buildings and schools, who are you to say they have no right to defend?

[Tubbsalot]

(It is pretty sad you get so offended by being called a moron)

I'm not offended at all. If I were, I would have reported you in Moderation. I'm telling you facts. Calling people morons will get you banned.

But besides that, so you are saying, Israel should just not defend itself and lay there and do nothing

For someone who just accused me of not reading his post, you aren't very good at reading posts.

Israel is: "firing rockets back, at civilian-heavy areas. And building settlements in contravention of international law. And enforcing a crippling blockade which is creating massive poverty and distress in Gaza. Among many other things."

That's what's bad. Those are the bad things.

Now you can either attempt to justify those things, or you can admit that Israel is pretty awful.

[Kengburg]

And I am sorry but war is war, Palestine is launching rockets in civilian heavy areas, so you are saying Palestine has that right? And Israel has taken extra care to NOT launch rockets into civilian areas, they focus more on the leaders of the terrorists and military targets.

[Kengburg]

(It is pretty sad you get so offended by being called a moron)

I'm not offended at all. If I were, I would have reported you in Moderation. I'm telling you facts. Calling people morons will get you banned.

But besides that, so you are saying, Israel should just not defend itself and lay there and do nothing

For someone who just accused me of not reading his post, you aren't very good at reading posts.

Israel is: "firing rockets back, at civilian-heavy areas. And building settlements in contravention of international law. And enforcing a crippling blockade which is creating massive poverty and distress in Gaza. Among many other things."

That's what's bad. Those are the bad things.

Now you can either attempt to justify those things, or you can admit that Israel is pretty awful.

So you are saying Israel is awful for in a time of war, when your opponent is trying to cut off your water supplies (Jordan River) and blockade your shipments (Egyptian blockade) that took place, that Israel is awful and a horrible nation? The US has made more radical things in wartime and no one has criticized it that much. And the issue is not over a few bad things in a war that make a side bad, but it is over who commited the most, and I would have to say Palestine has done the lot of bad things in the wars.

[MeirKahanewasright]

And I am sorry but war is war, Palestine is launching rockets in civilian heavy areas, so you are saying Palestine has that right? And Israel has taken extra care to NOT launch rockets into civilian areas, they focus more on the leaders of the terrorists and military targets.

Shalom, great comment. Meir Kahane Suggested that the Palestinians, be deported to Jordan, with financial compensation. Thankyou for supporting Israel's right to self-defence against Hamas.

[Kengburg]

And I am sorry but war is war, Palestine is launching rockets in civilian heavy areas, so you are saying Palestine has that right? And Israel has taken extra care to NOT launch rockets into civilian areas, they focus more on the leaders of the terrorists and military targets.

Shalom, great comment. Meir Kahane Suggested that the Palestinians, be deported to Jordan, with financial compensation. Thankyou for supporting Israel's right to self-defence against Hamas.

Deportation to Jordan is a little rough lol
But otherwise I am glad to stick up for what is right.

[Tubbsalot]

And I am sorry but war is war, Palestine is launching rockets in civilian heavy areas, so you are saying Palestine has that right? And Israel has taken extra care to NOT launch rockets into civilian areas, they focus more on the leaders of the terrorists and military targets.

"Palestine" isn't a thing. There are Palestinian organisations, the most relevant of which to this 'conversation' is Hamas, the violent and semi-legitimate administrators of the Gaza Strip. Hamas is well known for such attacks and for sanctioning similar attacks by more minor violent groups. This is in stark contrast to Fatah, the largest member of the PLO, who are a non-violent and internationally recognised government.

I dunno, maybe you should look around on Wikipedia a bit. Then you might understand why it's not "war" (although you could have realised that just from considering that Israel hasn't invaded Gaza, which it would have in the event of war).

So you are saying Israel is awful for in a time of war, when your opponent is trying to cut off your water supplies (Jordan River) and blockade your shipments, and not to mention the Egyptian blockade that took place, that Israel is awful and a horrible nation? The US has made more radical things in wartime and no one has criticized it that much. And the issue is not over a few bad things in a war that make a side bad, but it is over who commited the most, and I would have to say Palestine has done the lot of bad things in the wars.

Since you clearly don't know what your argument is, let me state this very plainly:

You're attempting to show that Israel is not "evil" or "warmongering". To this end, the actions of the various Arab states are utterly irrelevant. Only the actions of Israel itself are relevant. Even if you proved that e.g. Jordan was pure liquid evil, it wouldn't matter - that wouldn't prove that Israel was pure and good.

So you need to contradict the argument I have made that Israel's actions - most especially illegal settlement-building - are unacceptable. That will back up your assertion that Israel is good.

Get it?

[DogDoo 7]

And I am sorry but war is war, Palestine is launching rockets in civilian heavy areas, so you are saying Palestine has that right? And Israel has taken extra care to NOT launch rockets into civilian areas, they focus more on the leaders of the terrorists and military targets.

Shalom, great comment. Meir Kahane Suggested that the Palestinians, be deported to Jordan, with financial compensation. Thankyou for supporting Israel's right to self-defence against Hamas.

Did I see you the other day in Hebron? Oh right, it was next to the monument to Baruch Goldstein, that great Jewish jihadi.

[MeirKahanewasright]

Shalom, great comment. Meir Kahane Suggested that the Palestinians, be deported to Jordan, with financial compensation. Thankyou for supporting Israel's right to self-defence against Hamas.

Did I see you the other day in Hebron? Oh right, it was next to the monument to Baruch Goldstein, that great Jewish jihadi.

May HaShem G-D, bless the memory of Baruch Goldstein, the honored jewish matyr who sacrified his life to defend the chosen people of Israel, from muslim nazis.

[Kengburg]

You are trying to say Israel is evil and warmongering because of its actions of protecting itself against Palestinian attacks, I say once a nation attacks someone without good reason, it is up to the nation to bear the consequences of its actions. Also Hamas has more control of what goes on than the PLO, because if the PLO did have control they would be able to stop Hamas, so at this point Im going to refer to it as Palestine instead of Palestinian Orginizations, I say that Palestine needs to bear the blame for what happens in the war if you attack someone, expect what you get back, because if you are going on an all-out attack on someone you are gonna get an all-out attack back at you.

[Tubbsalot]

You are trying to say Israel is evil and warmongering because of its actions of protecting itself against Palestinian attacks

How many times do I have to say this? The number of quotation marks is directly proportional to the shame you should feel at repeatedly failing to read my posts:

"Israel is: "firing rockets back, at civilian-heavy areas. And building settlements in contravention of international law. And enforcing a crippling blockade which is creating massive poverty and distress in Gaza. Among many other things.""

None of the listed things is 'defending itself.' So you need to justify striking civilian-heavy areas, settlement-building, and the Gaza blockade. I'll give you a hint: the first one there is the easiest to justify.

Just to repeat: "Israel is: "firing rockets back, at civilian-heavy areas. And building settlements in contravention of international law. And enforcing a crippling blockade which is creating massive poverty and distress in Gaza. Among many other things."" Those are the problems. Not defending itself - striking civilian-heavy areas, settlement-building, and the blockade. Got it? Attempt to justify those things.

Striking civilian-heavy areas, settlement-building, and the blockade. Those are the things you need to post about in your next post. Not "nrrr u think israel evil cos palestinian shooting it". Striking civilian-heavy areas, settlement-building, and the blockade. Right? Those three things. Justify them. That's what you need to do to succeed in your argument. Start with the first one.

[Kengburg]

You are trying to say Israel is evil and warmongering because of its actions of protecting itself against Palestinian attacks

How many times do I have to say this? The number of quotation marks is directly proportional to the shame you should feel at repeatedly failing to read my posts:

"Israel is: "firing rockets back, at civilian-heavy areas. And building settlements in contravention of international law. And enforcing a crippling blockade which is creating massive poverty and distress in Gaza. Among many other things.""

None of the listed things is 'defending itself.' So you need to justify striking civilian-heavy areas, settlement-building, and the Gaza blockade. I'll give you a hint: the first one there is the easiest to justify.

Just to repeat: "Israel is: "firing rockets back, at civilian-heavy areas. And building settlements in contravention of international law. And enforcing a crippling blockade which is creating massive poverty and distress in Gaza. Among many other things."" Those are the problems. Not defending itself - striking civilian-heavy areas, settlement-building, and the blockade. Got it? Attempt to justify those things.

Striking civilian-heavy areas, settlement-building, and the blockade. Those are the things you need to post about in your next post. Not "nrrr u think israel evil cos palestinian shooting it". Striking civilian-heavy areas, settlement-building, and the blockade. Right? Those three things. Justify them. That's what you need to do to succeed in your argument. Start with the first one.

Did you even read the rest of my post? Seems like we both cannot read. I said I do not nescasarilly agree with those things, but saying Israel's whole effort to defend itself is horrible because of a military slip up is idiotic, I believe that the blockade was justified though, many nations use that as a economic weapon in times of war and it sped up the pace to peace, Settlement building really does not affect anyone, it was just 1% of the West Bank and did not affect anyone directly, so that is my position and I have said it like two time already across my other posts.

[Tubbsalot]

I said I do not nescasarilly agree with those things

No, until this post, you didn't mention anything about those three things, but whatever.

It seems you genuinely can't see a problem with Israel breaking international law and continually encouraging violence by settlement building. If that's what you think, the problem is far too deep-seated to address with facts. Given that this is exceptionally unlikely to be a productive argument, and given that it's 12:30 am here, I think I'm done with this.

[Kengburg]

Also to you people watching the debate, I would like to announce my new weapon line Burg Weapons, look it up in the Trade Forums

[L Ron Cupboard]

Also to you people watching the debate, I would like to announce my new weapon line Burg Weapons, look it up in the Trade Forums

Not a Mod but this is an OOC forum...and calling people morons is not cool.

[Kengburg]

I said I do not nescasarilly agree with those things

No, until this post, you didn't mention anything about those three things, but whatever.

It seems you genuinely can't see a problem with Israel breaking international law and continually encouraging violence by settlement building. If that's what you think, the problem is far too deep-seated to address with facts. Given that this is exceptionally unlikely to be a productive argument, and given that it's 12:30 am here, I think I'm done with this.

Yes, says the man who thinks that Israel is totally evil for making one mistake in a war, all countries mess up in wartime WWII civilian places were bombed, but sometimes that is out of necessity, Israel should not bend down to get on an even military level with Hamas, Palestine wants to kill Israel, each war is a fight to the death, If you do not end the war as swiftly as possibly, using all your recources, your economy will be dragged down by war and your people with it. If Palestine wanted to drag its people into this, and place them as their only excuse to blame Israel on the international table, let me say this. If you attack a country with all you strength and try to kill it, you will get a big punch back.

[Gravlen]

No, until this post, you didn't mention anything about those three things, but whatever.

It seems you genuinely can't see a problem with Israel breaking international law and continually encouraging violence by settlement building. If that's what you think, the problem is far too deep-seated to address with facts. Given that this is exceptionally unlikely to be a productive argument, and given that it's 12:30 am here, I think I'm done with this.

Yes, says the man who thinks that Israel is totally evil for making one mistake in a war,

"one" mistake? Really?

Really?

If you attack a country with all you strength and try to kill it, you will get a big punch back.

Wait, are you trying to justify Palestinian terrorism now?

Also, you never explained how the building of settlements is a way for Israel to defend itself...

[Tel]

Because everybody in Gaza kills babies. Obviously.

No. They just throw their mothers in jail with their children for six years for having them whilst unmarried.

After stoning them, of course. They just let the bodies rot for some barbaric ceremony later.

I'mnotbeingserious

[Kengburg]

Yes, says the man who thinks that Israel is totally evil for making one mistake in a war,

"one" mistake? Really?

Really?

If you attack a country with all you strength and try to kill it, you will get a big punch back.

Wait, are you trying to justify Palestinian terrorism now?

Also, you never explained how the building of settlements is a way for Israel to defend itself...

Actually I just explained this whole thing through the last three pages, which you obviously haven't looked at. And no I wasnt justifying Palestine I was saying when Palestine attacked Israel aggressively it got agression back. tit for tat, but read the last three pages and nitpick at any small complaints that you have wich I have already probably ansewerd in my previous posts, I cannot change ignorance, you have to do that yourself.