The war on Christmas

[Transhuman Proteus]

I admit, Merry Christmas or Happy Christmas (as Brits say it) and happy Hanukkah/Kwanzaa sound a lot better than "Happy Holidays".

Imagine how many Christmas songs would be ruined if the word Christmas had to be replaced with "Holiday".

Why would it be necessary to imagine that? It isn't going to happen anymore than you not being allowed to say merry Christmas in your own home, so it is irrelevant how different a Christmas song, where the words are specifically picked to work in the song, would sound if you replaced the words with something else.

[GCMG]

Probably wouldn't scan.

What's that mean?

When you change the lyrics in a song any words have to scan properly.

For example,

O' the grand old duke of York

If that was change to the

O' the grand old duchess of York

The revised lyrics wouldn't scan.

[Libertarian California]

What's that mean?

When you change the lyrics in a song any words have to scan properly.

For example,

O' the grand old duke of York

If that was change to the

O' the grand old duchess of York

The revised lyrics wouldn't scan.

Ah. Now I get it. That makes more sense. Thanks.

[Galloism]

You have disappointed me for the last time Admiral Piett...

Sorry Lord Elmo... it was just... *choke*

In all seriousness, I see pictures and I get the impression that the Japanese, as a people, seem to have a major problem understanding even what Christmas is.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Sorry Lord Elmo... it was just... *choke*

In all seriousness, I see pictures and I get the impression that the Japanese, as a people, seem to have a major problem understanding even what Christmas is.

So it seems.

I think it was NER who once explained that. Back in Jolt, I think it was.

[GCMG]

You mean there's an actual crucified Santa running about? well, obviously not running.

There is. Google ''crucified Santa' and you'll see.

Oh, and Doraemon is an earless blue cat from a Japanese anime.

There are rather a lot of them.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

There is. Google ''crucified Santa' and you'll see.

Oh, and Doraemon is an earless blue cat from a Japanese anime.

There are rather a lot of them.

[TomKirk]

Holy fuck, are you for real?!

I am serious. I was at a city community center for a regional meeting for ALTs and one of the offices had a display up including a Doraemon nativity with all the characters replaced by Doraemon characters.

It was an obvious "We're not in Kansas anymore, Toto" moment.

In Pittsburgh, after another round of courthouse-creche litigation (a fine annual tradition in Pittsburgh during the decade I lived there), the court ruled that the creche could stay if it was part of a broader display of symbols, so it was surrounded not just by a menorah for the Jews and a Santa sleigh for the Capitalists and a lighted tree for the Woden-worshippers, but also a banner saying Salaam in Arabic script for the Muslims and a goofily-grinning Frosty the Snowman for the ... uh, I don't really know who that was for. The juxtaposition of the wise men's camels with the reindeer and the snowman, one columnist wrote, "raised a lot of questions-- like, where exactly is this scene supposed to be taking place?" A commenter suggested they should have made plain that it was in the Middle East-- by adding some tanks.

[GCMG]

There are rather a lot of them.

I can imagine the issue. (Disclaimer, this is by no means and does not purport to be the truth.)

Hmm, there's a guy on a cross.
There's also this fat man.
Just stick them together.
Good thinking, who'll notice?

I cite this as evidence of primarily secular nature of Christmas.

[Stedicules]

omg no way, shit on tv. we cant handle a 3rd war jeez we got 2 alredy isnt it enuf fox? y cant we just have xmas and no war.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

I can imagine the issue. (Disclaimer, this is by no means and does not purport to be the truth.)

Hmm, there's a guy on a cross.
There's also this fat man.
Just stick them together.
Good thinking, who'll notice?

I cite this as evidence of primarily secular nature of Christmas.

From what I can gather, Christmas, to the Japanese, is more of a commercial thing than anything. It doesn't mean the the West hasn't commercialized Christmas, but for many in the West, Christmas still special meaning.

[Dyakovo]

The war on christmas? Just another move by those wimps who care about not offending anyone. Who gives a rats ass about them, Its Merry Christmas. Not Happy Holidays. I can't stress how annoying that is. You get offended that's not my problem, go and cry to your mommy. any reasonable person should just let it role off their backs instead of getting all PC with you.

1: No one is offended.
2: Christmas isn't the only holiday in December.

[Srboslavija]

There's always someone - for instance this guy considers the greeting worse than murder because it glorifies 'a false religion' - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1c6JYIMbEE

My greeting is sincere and the motive is pure. The fact is, people shouldn't be offended by it and that some are is a joke to me. Always fun to weed them out.

Wow. Because I meet so many extremists everywhere. One person is not representative of a majority of people in a belief system. I can find Christians who are offended by Merry Christmas too, if I looked hard enough.

I simply don't grasp why you think you, who has admitted to actually attempting (misguidedly) to offend people during this time is a better representative of civilised society than someone who goes out of their way NOT to offend people, by saying a neutral blessing? If your idea of civilised society is to deliberately attempt to ostracise and offend people not of the majority, then I really don't want to live in your civilised society.

Sorry toots, but only God can judge me.

You said, "I don't think anyone gets offended by Christmas". I provide a single youtube example that confirms someone indeed does - not an entire people. Besides, I've tried to properly explain myself but you seem intent on crucifying me, for lack of better terms, for wishing people well for Christmas.

[NERVUN]

In all seriousness, I see pictures and I get the impression that the Japanese, as a people, seem to have a major problem understanding even what Christmas is.

So it seems.

I think it was NER who once explained that. Back in Jolt, I think it was.

Christmas isn't a native holiday and Christianity is SO not the dominant religion. Given that the more, hmm, solemn aspects of Christmas (Gathering with family, etc) are covered by New Year's... yeah.

Pretty much Christmas was imported and has become either Santa for small kids, or romance for young couples leading to a LOT of symbols that have almost no meaning but are assumed to be Christmas because, well... Just because (Like say a lovely display of Christmas lights shaped to look like beetles and dragonflies).

It's also why Christmas remains the most popular day for women to lose their virginity in Japan. Your BF takes you to a nice restaurant where you dine on roast chicken (Curse you KFC!) and Christmas cake, you unwrap his gift and then go to a love hotel where he unwraps you.

[Dyakovo]

I say it merely out of habit, but it comes out as 'Bleshu.'

You have no idea how annoying it is NOT to hear it.

Not at all?

I admit, Merry Christmas or Happy Christmas (as Brits say it) and happy Hanukkah/Kwanzaa sound a lot better than "Happy Holidays".

Meh.

Imagine how many Christmas songs would be ruined if the word Christmas had to be replaced with "Holiday".

1: No one is suggesting the songs be edited.
2: None of them they're already shit.

Like, beingrelatedtothemajorityreligion type of ring to it?

No, more like, what one says at this time of year. As I explained arguing that Christmas is primarily religious holiday doesn't stand up.

You claiming it doesn't make it true.

[NERVUN]

You have no idea how annoying it is NOT to hear it.

Not at all?

They say nothing in Japan... it's like an itch you can't scratch! I know, I know, it means nothing. NO ONE thinks your soul flies out of your body, but...

[Saint Jade IV]

Wow. Because I meet so many extremists everywhere. One person is not representative of a majority of people in a belief system. I can find Christians who are offended by Merry Christmas too, if I looked hard enough.

I simply don't grasp why you think you, who has admitted to actually attempting (misguidedly) to offend people during this time is a better representative of civilised society than someone who goes out of their way NOT to offend people, by saying a neutral blessing? If your idea of civilised society is to deliberately attempt to ostracise and offend people not of the majority, then I really don't want to live in your civilised society.

Sorry toots, but only God can judge me.

I certainly wasn't trying to judge you.

You said, "I don't think anyone gets offended by Christmas". I provide a single youtube example that confirms someone indeed does - not an entire people.

And funnily enough - he certainly wasn't a militant atheist.

Besides, I've tried to properly explain myself but you seem intent on crucifying me, for lack of better terms, for wishing people well for Christmas.

I'm not trying to crucify you. I'm merely amused by the fact that you seem intent on trying to offend people, then claiming that that is the basis for a civilised society.

[Dyakovo]

Not at all?

They say nothing in Japan... it's like an itch you can't scratch! I know, I know, it means nothing. NO ONE thinks your soul flies out of your body, but...

Ah, something I'd like about Japan...

[Galloism]

They say nothing in Japan... it's like an itch you can't scratch! I know, I know, it means nothing. NO ONE thinks your soul flies out of your body, but...

Ah, something I'd like about Japan...

Well, that makes two things Dyakovo likes about Japan.

1) No Immortal soul
2) Used panties vending machines.

[Dyakovo]

Ah, something I'd like about Japan...

Well, that makes two things Dyakovo likes about Japan.

1) No Immortal soul
2) Used panties vending machines.

Lol... No, just one.

[GCMG]

No, more like, what one says at this time of year. As I explained arguing that Christmas is primarily religious holiday doesn't stand up.

You claiming it doesn't make it true.

That's correct. Neither does measured argument, but that does explain why it is true.

My understanding is this.

The War on Christmas refers to the habit of creating more embracing versions of the greeting, "Merry Christmas." The reasoning is that Christmas is a Christian holiday.

I reject this on the basis that Christmas stopped being a Christian holiday the moment someone said, "I'll teach you the real meaning of Christmas." Even that has secularised itself into being about "giving" and "joy" and stuff like that. I also point out that without A Christmas Carol and Coca Cola, Christmas wouldn't be Christmas as we know it. So, again, not a Christian holiday nor even a Christian popularised one.

Christmas can embrace elements of Jesus and whatnot but that's for people who want to do that. Anyone who honestly feels a need to secularise Christmas is out of touch when you look at the facts.

Or at least true enough for no one to respond to it.

[Miss Defied]

I just watched an episode of Bill O'Riley last night about the war on christmas and how the media and the government should use the term "Holiday" insted of Christmas, is that a good thing? As to not offend people of other religions/ethnic groups should the government restrict the names of holidays?I also found a cuple of interesting articals as well
http://mnsho.wordpress.com/2012/11/16/the-war-on-christmas/
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1868542,00.html


So whats your opinion? Is the war on christmas BS or realistic?
and sorry if this topic isnt well put together

Was it a rerun by chance? Because FNC has been trotting out this fake story for several years now. Just wondering. I will go ahead and attempt to read all 20 something pages of this thread before I continue.

[Dyakovo]

You claiming it doesn't make it true.

That's correct. Neither does measured argument, but that does explain why it is true.

My understanding is this.

The War on Christmas refers to the habit of creating more embracing versions of the greeting, "Merry Christmas." The reasoning is that Christmas is a Christian holiday.

I reject this on the basis that Christmas stopped being a Christian holiday the moment someone said, "I'll teach you the real meaning of Christmas." Even that has secularised itself into being about "giving" and "joy" and stuff like that. I also point out that without A Christmas Carol and Coca Cola, Christmas wouldn't be Christmas as we know it. So, again, not a Christian holiday nor even a Christian popularised one.

Christmas can embrace elements of Jesus and whatnot but that's for people who want to do that. Anyone who honestly feels a need to secularise Christmas is out of touch when you look at the facts.

Or at least true enough for no one to respond to it.

Or just not worth responding to.

[Dyakovo]

I just watched an episode of Bill O'Riley last night about the war on christmas and how the media and the government should use the term "Holiday" insted of Christmas, is that a good thing? As to not offend people of other religions/ethnic groups should the government restrict the names of holidays?I also found a cuple of interesting articals as well
http://mnsho.wordpress.com/2012/11/16/the-war-on-christmas/
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1868542,00.html


So whats your opinion? Is the war on christmas BS or realistic?
and sorry if this topic isnt well put together

Was it a rerun by chance? Because FNC has been trotting out this fake story for several years now. Just wondering. I will go ahead and attempt to read all 20 something pages of this thread before I continue.

Probably not a rerun, O'Riley really likes trotting out his CPC.

[SaintB]

There is no war on Christmas. Simply reminding people that there are about 101 holidays many of which predate Christmas by a long time being celebrated too is not a declaration of war. Telling a secular government that it can't make one holiday more special than another is not declaring war on Christmas.

If there is a war it was started by Christmas when it was moved to December to compete with all the pagan holidays. If there is a war Christmas is obviously winning because you can't travel 5 feet without seeing signs on occupation. If there is a war on Christmas it is being waged not by people of differing faith (or lack of faith) its being waged by the people that continue to commercialize it year after year.