Mandatory military service in the US

[Tubbsalot]

It's your two years, not the state's. You should choose how to spend them.

If the state calls upon you for service, you serve. It is your duty as a citizen. If you have such apathy towards your nation that you will not give 2 years of your life then maybe you should not recieve the same rights as those who answer the call to service.

Sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of that hypothetical crap state.

pppfffpbbtthhhffffthhh it's a farting noise ptthhhfrrrtttbrppp

[GCMG]

"Maybe old people should do National Service, as they're often the people who are calling for it."

Generally, they already have.

[Dyakovo]

"Maybe old people should do National Service, as they're often the people who are calling for it."

Seeing as I've already served...

[Eireann Fae]

It's your two years, not the state's. You should choose how to spend them.

If the state calls upon you for service, you serve. It is your duty as a citizen. If you have such apathy towards your nation that you will not give 2 years of your life then maybe you should not recieve the same rights as those who answer the call to service.

I'd rather spend my whole life being a good person, active in my community, helping others solve problems, and in general doing my part in the economy (even if it's overnight at a gas station) than be our government's trigger finger.

[SD_Film Artists]

"Maybe old people should do National Service, as they're often the people who are calling for it."

Generally, they already have.

I thought that too ^^

[Ostroeuropa]

Conscription is only acceptable in a total war for national survival, and in that situation most of the economy is nationalized anyway.

[New Sindo]

Your expected lifespan is 74 years (or around that). 2 years is nothing.

I could get hit by a bus. Or, you know, shot. If USMIL were a defensive force, you'd have more of an argument, but I'll be damned if I or any of my friends/family are to be forced to become the President's personal pawns.

Atleast I don't live in America!

[Democratic Koyro]

If the state calls upon you for service, you serve. It is your duty as a citizen. If you have such apathy towards your nation that you will not give 2 years of your life then maybe you should not recieve the same rights as those who answer the call to service.

I'd rather spend my whole life being a good person, active in my community, helping others solve problems, and in general doing my part in the economy (even if it's overnight at a gas station) than be our government's trigger finger.

I said Service, not Military Service. National Service would have several options, with military service being one of them.

[The Caldari Union]

I'd rather spend my whole life being a good person, active in my community, helping others solve problems, and in general doing my part in the economy (even if it's overnight at a gas station) than be our government's trigger finger.

I said Service, not Military Service. National Service would have several options, with military service being one of them.

So YOU would serve?

No, i thought not. It applies to other people, not yourself.

[GCMG]

Why would I agree with National Service?

Well, there's the ideas of co-operation and discipline. Always appealing. There's the ideas of character building and an experience worth having (something for the memoirs).

Why would I disagree?

Well, what is needed? And, aforementioned disruption.

That said, an army of people trained in a variety of things (probably not militarily) with a post-education idea could have its uses infrastructure wise etc.

[Laerod]

I don't really like this idea. It seems just at a first glance, but consider that the longer you leave your job (even if you're guaranteed to get it back afterwards), the more you forget and the more you need to be qualified for it (see complaints about 3 years of maternity leave in Germany). Mandatory service makes the most sense right before or after college, life-planning-wise.

There, you are considering what is best for the individual (whose service is compelled) regardless of what is best for the collective (whether you call the 'the people' or 'the state').

This isn't an either or discussion.

The whole rationale of compelling service is what is best for the collective.

No it's not.

The argument about what extent of government-compelled individual sacrifice is justified to serve the interests of the collective is a very difficult one. Economic libertarians say None, fascists say 'as much as the state decrees'. I'm somewhere in between, as I'm guessing you are too.

Yeah.

I will however say that the state compelling military service is destructive of human capital and serves the interests of neither an individual nor of the people they supposedly serve. It may serve the interests of the state.

Depends on the rules. Germany didn't allow conscripts to serve overseas or in warzones. There are plenty of positions that don't require risking one's life in the military. Then again, I'm arguing that military service should be a voluntary opt out for people that wish to do that rather than mandatory public service.

[Dyakovo]

I said Service, not Military Service. National Service would have several options, with military service being one of them.

So YOU would serve?

No, i thought not. It applies to other people, not yourself.

Why are you assuming he wouldn't?
The two other supporters of National Service (myself and NorDom) not only would, but have.

[GCMG]

So YOU would serve?

No, i thought not. It applies to other people, not yourself.

Why are you assuming he wouldn't?
The two other supporters of National Service (myself and NorDom) not only would, but have.

I'm pretty certain even if I wanted to join any branch of the military here I wouldn't be able to. I can say with certainty that I wouldn't be allowed to fly aeroplanes.

[Democratic Koyro]

I said Service, not Military Service. National Service would have several options, with military service being one of them.

So YOU would serve?

No, i thought not. It applies to other people, not yourself.

The Royal Navy has, for the past 2 years been giving me a grant to attend university (with this being my third and final year) with the agreement that i will join as an officer following the completion of my education. Come September 2013 i shall be going to Royal Britannia Naval College to become a Naval Officer. I signed up for the military long ago and would gladly perform national service if it was introduced.

[SD_Film Artists]

That should not happen. We have lives to live.

Your expected lifespan is 74 years (or around that). 2 years is nothing.

Though 18-20 is a very important time in your life, where you could be going to university or getting a first job.

[AiliailiA]

"Maybe old people should do National Service, as they're often the people who are calling for it."

Yeah. The conscription age is generally quite short: 18-25 or thereabouts. Their ability to vote does not defend them well: firstly, by being new voters they are not very competent, secondly they lack candidates of their own age who they can naturally trust to represent their interests as an age group, and thirdly the lag between voting for a policy and seeing it implemented puts most of them beyond the consequences of their own vote.

If children could vote, registration for the draft wouldn't just be repealed. It would be made unconstitutional.

[Laerod]

So YOU would serve?

No, i thought not. It applies to other people, not yourself.

Why are you assuming he wouldn't?
The two other supporters of National Service (myself and NorDom) not only would, but have.

No one reads what I say... =(

(Supports national service, got out of compulsory military service for health reasons, served for a year of public service voluntarily)

[Dyakovo]

Your expected lifespan is 74 years (or around that). 2 years is nothing.

Though 18-20 is a very important time in your life, where you could be going to university or getting a first job.

Government jobs aren't jobs?

[Laerod]

Scrap the bit about the military and make it mandatory public service. People would be able to opt out by serving in the military instead if they felt like it, but mandatory service in the military, particularly if the service ends up sending you to a war zone, is evil.

It is the duty of all citizens to serve their nation if they are called upon, especially in times of war.

Eh. If it's being invaded or, you know, the Hitler clause comes into play.

[Divair]

"Maybe old people should do National Service, as they're often the people who are calling for it."

Yeah. The conscription age is generally quite short: 18-25 or thereabouts. Their ability to vote does not defend them well: firstly, by being new voters they are not very competent, secondly they lack candidates of their own age who they can naturally trust to represent their interests as an age group, and thirdly the lag between voting for a policy and seeing it implemented puts most of them beyond the consequences of their own vote.

If children could vote, registration for the draft wouldn't just be repealed. It would be made unconstitutional.

Heck, if 18-25 year olds went out and voted more, we'd see a huge shift in policies across the globe.

[Laerod]

Though 18-20 is a very important time in your life, where you could be going to university or getting a first job.

Government jobs aren't jobs? :unsure:

If you can't quit...

[Democratic Koyro]

Your expected lifespan is 74 years (or around that). 2 years is nothing.

Though 18-20 is a very important time in your life, where you could be going to university or getting a first job.

which can be defered until you have completed your service.

[Old Tyrannia]

"Maybe old people should do National Service, as they're often the people who are calling for it."

I'd point out that, in the UK at least, the "old people" calling for National Service often have done it.

[Dyakovo]

Why are you assuming he wouldn't?
The two other supporters of National Service (myself and NorDom) not only would, but have.

No one reads what I say... =(

(Supports national service, got out of compulsory military service for health reasons, served for a year of public service voluntarily)

Sorry...

[GCMG]

Why are you assuming he wouldn't?
The two other supporters of National Service (myself and NorDom) not only would, but have.

No one reads what I say... =(

(Supports national service, got out of compulsory military service for health reasons, served for a year of public service voluntarily)

Does Germany have that thing the Netherlands does where it's just suspended or is it gone properly?