Virginity

[New Sapienta]

I thought he tried saying that he was part of NASA.

When did that change?

According to him, that was his brother.

But please, let's stop this.

And the plot thickens.

Anyway, I agree, let's stop attacking each other.

[Tsaraine]

This is the frowny face:

Once again, I ask you to cease this threadjack and get back on topic or I will apply the frowny face directly to your foreheads with the Hammer of Mod.

~ Tsar the Mod has expressive eyebrows.

[Euronion]

I don't think someone woud go through that much trouble to impress an anonomyous figure on a debate forum people spend too much time on.

Oh, according to him, I lie about everything...
While he totes on about how OMG HE TOOK AN HONORS PHYSICS CLASS ONE TIME IN SCHOOL HOLY FUCK.

1. I did not say you lie about everything, I am saying that anything can be faked. It does not require much effort to do so, a few Google searches and some cutting and pasting and you have what you need to fool people. Merely save a template and adjust accordingly. You may very well be a physics major, though the likelihood of you not being a Physics major is also a possibility, a possibility that must be accounted for and also has no bearing on your argument one way or another.
2. I mentioned it once. If you count mentioning something once as "toting" then sure, I am toting.
3. Another reason I doubt your legitimacy is because of your demeaning and condescending manner, I apologize but everytime I read your posts and you leave the the cap locks on, it makes me envision a 14-year old pounding on their key-board who will go through many lengths for people to believe what he or she wants them to believe. If you truly wish to help your case, you should try using language more becoming of someone of your supposed education.

[Euronion]

This is the frowny face:

Once again, I ask you to cease this threadjack and get back on topic or I will apply the frowny face directly to your foreheads with the Hammer of Mod.

~ Tsar the Mod has expressive eyebrows.

Apologies, I did not see this before I posted [/threadjack by order of mods]

[Tsaraine]

[edit] Oh, okay then, I'll be merciful. THIS TIME.

~ Tsar the Mod is wrathful merciful.

Now can we please return to the topic?

Here's a thought to begin with; is virginity desirable? Why or why not? Personally, I'd seek some measure of experience in a sexual partner, all else being equal. Arguments in favour of virginity seem to emphasise 'innocence' - which I've always thought identical to 'ignorance' - and 'purity' - which is difficult to pin down to a meaning other than 'obeying social mores the speaker approves of'. Does 'purity' have any objective definition in this case?

[Euronion]

Except you're still wrong. The states that put abstinence over promiscuity with sex education have MORE teenage pregnancies, and I'm willing to bet more STDs. Prove me wrong. I have facts, you do not.

ugh, you do not understand what I am saying then. I AM FOR SAFE SEX WHENEVER POSSIBLE. Unless your studies are from an alien world in which the word chastity doesn't not exist, in which there are no societal influences favoring absitnence and chastity then your sources are irrelevant because all your sources were done here on Earth under the influence of societal preferences. Even if you do run down the halls, shove condoms in people's hands, those people may still choose not to have sex due to their religious views, societal views, and because of what they've had instilled in them by their parents, by society, by their friends, by their enemies, and by their teachers. Do you see what I'm saying? Tossing away abstinence ONLY education, I am in favor off. I prefer a mixed scientific perspective, which is abstinence is the only 100% way to prevent the spread of STDs and HIVs, but people still will have sex. It's kinda like a filter, you run dirt through the first filter and it filters out all the rocks, you put it through the second filter to filer out anything that isn't loose flowing dirt. The analogy is flawed but it conveys what I am trying to say which is, limited-Abstinence education/influence, no matter where it be from, catches people, it stops them from having sex, or discourages them and others from having sex.

Since this seemed to get lost in the fray, I think I'll repost it as it clarifies my position. As for my time zone, it is current 4:30 AM and I am extremely tired after burning off the cake I really should not have eaten on Thanksgiving. Good Night to all and to all a Good Night.

[Mavorpen]

Since this seemed to get lost in the fray, I think I'll repost it as it clarifies my position. As for my time zone, it is current 4:30 AM and I am extremely tired after burning off the cake I really should not have eaten on Thanksgiving. Good Night to all and to all a Good Night.

I prefer a mixed scientific perspective, which is abstinence is the only 100% way to prevent the spread of STDs and HIVs, but people still will have sex. .

Abstinence doesn't prevent the spread of STDs 100%.

[Tahar Joblis]

The weirdest thing about virginity is that you're going to get it from both sides over virginity and purity. Yes, there's a certain cachet to female virginity, and it's viewed as something of a prize, including people whose "virginity" is a matter of debate. For example, I was told I was supposed to put a gold star in my little black book for having sex with a woman who'd never had sex with a man before [but had slept with other women before].

I don't even have a little black book.

But at the same time, while you get bonus points for deflowering someone, and while, generically, we don't want people to be too promiscuous, choosing to hold onto virginity [say, until marriage] is something that:

• Will tend to get you called "foolish" and "old-fashioned" as a woman - 'virgin-shaming' of women hasn't really caught on in a big way yet, but in the extreme case - i.e., actual virgins, or in some cases someone who's only ever slept with one other person - we are starting to see it.
• Will get you ridiculed as a man - when a man claims he's deliberately waiting, people tend to assume that actually means he's just not attractive enough / skilled enough o get laid.

There's a very active fight over whether or not sexual purity is a virtue or a damaging state of affairs for women. There's very little struggle over men, and it's hard not to lose out as a man. Sleep with too many people, and you're a slut. Sleep with too few, and you're a failure. What we have is a collective failure to accept the sexual lifestyles of others when those lifestyles differ from our own - or just the opposite gender living your own sexual lifestyle - and it's very common among a wide variety of people to be nosy and intolerant.

And the big trouble is, it isn't even always not our business - if I date someone else, he or she is being directly impacted by my personal choices with respect to having, or not having, sex, with few or many people. So it's hard to be non-judgmental, and it's going to stay that way for the foreseeable future. Sexuality is social as well as personal.

Right now, I see purity movements gaining traction because on the whole, society is becoming more prudish, even the politically liberal parts of it.

[Zweite Alaje]

Counseling? For what? How to fuck more people's brains out? What good is talking to the nymphos if they're being told promiscuity is "awesome"!!! Their being told " go and bang all you like, you can just go get an abortion anyway, it's ok!!!".

Ok, YOU'RE the slut-shamer. Congratulations.

Sluts should be ashamed, they're filthy, and that goes for both sexes.

[Zottistan]

Ok, YOU'RE the slut-shamer. Congratulations.

Sluts should be ashamed, they're filthy, and that goes for both sexes.

How so? What's so bad about sluts?

[Ostroeuropa]

Ok, YOU'RE the slut-shamer. Congratulations.

Sluts should be ashamed, they're filthy, and that goes for both sexes.

No, prudes should be shamed.

[Tahar Joblis]

[edit] Oh, okay then, I'll be merciful. THIS TIME.

~ Tsar the Mod is wrathful merciful.

Now can we please return to the topic?

Here's a thought to begin with; is virginity desirable? Why or why not? Personally, I'd seek some measure of experience in a sexual partner, all else being equal. Arguments in favour of virginity seem to emphasise 'innocence' - which I've always thought identical to 'ignorance' - and 'purity' - which is difficult to pin down to a meaning other than 'obeying social mores the speaker approves of'. Does 'purity' have any objective definition in this case?

I see sexual experience as a wash.

Someone who is more sexually experienced is more likely to turn out to be carrying something. If they're very cautious about who they have sex with and when, they're less likely to be carrying something relatively innocuous that I would still rather not catch.

Also, someone who is very leery of casual sex seems less likely to cheat on me. It's a small extra barrier - not by any means assured - and being cautious about who and when you have sex is likely to lead to a lower rate of sexual activity. So someone being less sexually experienced is an indicator of caution.

It's not surefire by any means. Balanced against that is that someone who's sexually more experienced might know more about sex... but on the other hand, sex is very personal and not a generic skill. I'd rather have a partner who knows they don't know what satisfies me and so takes the effort to learn what I enjoy than one who assumes he or she knows all about sex.

I'll make a very nerdy analogy here. I play tabletop RPGs. More to the point, I run tabletop RPGs. And while more experienced players are typically more skilled, they're also more likely to have bad habits they've picked up from games run by other GMs. And it's harder to break bad habits than to teach good ones. A little patience and teaching go a long way with a player who's intelligent but simply new to the game.

I've not found the sexual experience argument compelling on a personal level in quite some time. I know that many people - especially women - do; but enough men and women are running around giving false feedback that I think you really shouldn't count on sexual experience as a proxy for expected sexual pleasure you'll receive from someone.

And there's enough godawful sex "education" floating around that you can't count on it as a measure of sexual safety. Learn whether or not your prospective partner pays attention to the issue of STDs and safe sex. Learn whether or not your prospective partner responds well to feedback. That will tell you a lot more than how many notches they have in their bedpost.

[Zweite Alaje]

Sluts should be ashamed, they're filthy, and that goes for both sexes.

No, prudes should be shamed.

How so? We "prudes" aren't the ones getting STDs and needing abortions due to not being able to keep it in our pants. Having sex outside of a longterm relationship such as marriage is reckless, irresponsible, and dangerous.

[Ostroeuropa]

No, prudes should be shamed.

How so? We "prudes" aren't the ones getting STDs and needing abortions due to not being able to keep it in our pants. Having sex outside of a longterm relationship such as marriage is reckless, irresponsible, and dangerous.

Prudes because they consistently interfere in other peoples sex lives.
You want to shame people who don't use protection? Go ahead. Apples and oranges. Just leave the rest of us alone.

[New England and The Maritimes]

No, prudes should be shamed.

How so? We "prudes" aren't the ones getting STDs and needing abortions due to not being able to keep it in our pants. Having sex outside of a longterm relationship such as marriage is reckless, irresponsible, and dangerous.

Married women get the overwhelming majority of abortions. BAN SEX IN MARRIAGE!!!

[Mavorpen]

No, prudes should be shamed.

How so? We "prudes" aren't the ones getting STDs and needing abortions due to not being able to keep it in our pants. Having sex without proper use of protection outside of a longterm relationship such as marriage is reckless, irresponsible, and dangerous.

Fixed.

And I really don't care if you consider it reckless, irresponsible, and dangerous.

[Risottia]

Ok, YOU'RE the slut-shamer. Congratulations.

Sluts should be ashamed, they're filthy, and that goes for both sexes.

Sluts aren't filthy if they have access to proper sanitation. Just like everyone else.

[Ostroeuropa]

How so? We "prudes" aren't the ones getting STDs and needing abortions due to not being able to keep it in our pants. Having sex outside of a longterm relationship such as marriage is reckless, irresponsible, and dangerous.

Married women get the overwhelming majority of abortions. BAN SEX IN MARRIAGE!!!

that isn't suprising.
People in marriages often know their partner is STD clear, and so contraception use is far lower.

[New England and The Maritimes]

Married women get the overwhelming majority of abortions. BAN SEX IN MARRIAGE!!!

that isn't suprising.
People in marriages often know their partner is STD clear, and so contraception use is far lower.

Filthy harlots! Stone those irresponsible married mothers to death for their impious, fornicating ways!

[Risottia]

I'm a notorious deviant and when I think of a "virgin", I think of "unexperienced", "shy", "fearful", "acid". Go figure.
Except for BEEEYBEE JAAAYYYSUUUUS!!!!

And yet not a single mention of olive oil.

And you call yourself an Italian.

That would be "extra-virgin" for your own info. Pure virginity isn't enough.

[Halloween S and M Gremlins]

that isn't suprising.
People in marriages often know their partner is STD clear, and so contraception use is far lower.

Filthy harlots! Stone those irresponsible married mothers to death for their impious, fornicating ways!

Yeah. Like if you don't want to use a condom, fine, w/e, just be responsible.

Just use the birth control hole.
Don't be a dummy, cum on the tummy.
If he wears tight pants, he's sterile for 30 min after he takes them off.
Just do it standing up, no pregnancy.

^ Good practices.

[Risottia]

I'm a notorious deviant and when I think of a "virgin", I think of "unexperienced", "shy", "fearful", "acid". Go figure.

"acid." All I can think of is bodily fluids eating penises and vaginas.

Weird fetishes you have.

[Zottistan]

No, prudes should be shamed.

How so? We "prudes" aren't the ones getting STDs and needing abortions due to not being able to keep it in our pants. Having sex outside of a longterm relationship such as marriage is reckless, irresponsible, and dangerous.

Most sluts don't get STDs or need abortions. And if they get STDs, well tough shit. They have their rights, and if they abuse them, let them suffer. As for abortion... I'm not getting into that now. I haven't had my coffee yet.

[Ostroeuropa]

How so? We "prudes" aren't the ones getting STDs and needing abortions due to not being able to keep it in our pants. Having sex outside of a longterm relationship such as marriage is reckless, irresponsible, and dangerous.

Most sluts don't get STDs or need abortions. And if they get STDs, well tough shit. They have their rights, and if they abuse them, let them suffer. As for abortion... I'm not getting into that now. I haven't had my coffee yet.

STD contraction is highest from migrant populations.
Clearly, people who have sex with foreigners are dirty and should be ashamed of themselves.

[Risottia]

How so? We "prudes" aren't the ones getting STDs and needing abortions due to not being able to keep it in our pants. Having sex outside of a longterm relationship such as marriage is reckless, irresponsible, and dangerous.

Most sluts don't get STDs or need abortions. And if they get STDs, well tough shit. They have their rights, and if they abuse them, let them suffer. As for abortion... I'm not getting into that now. I haven't had my coffee yet.

Wait. You're not spreading Dead Foeti Jam on your toast for breakfast?