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Roman Catholic Priests to be violated in Australia

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Ostroeuropa
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Postby Ostroeuropa » Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:16 pm

Nidaria wrote:
Great Nepal wrote:Yes, it does.
Thats generally why we banned honour killings, human sacrifice, witch hunting and many other religious practice.

Those were never religious practices of the Church.


That's it. I'm calling it
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Wisconsin9
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Postby Wisconsin9 » Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:16 pm

Nidaria wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:
So?
"My" religion was established by the Son of God (HOW ****ING WEIRD THAT ITS SO COMMON, almost like you guys PLAGIARIZED it), and I can make the bullshit claim that it's based on love too.
So, get on the damn altar, we need your heart.

If you cannot prove it, you are guilty of blasphemy.

You can't prove any of this crap.
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Ostroeuropa
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:17 pm

Nidaria wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:
You can't prove catholicism either.

I can, I could write a lengthy essay here.


Why aren't you famous? Again, HUGE ego. HUUUUGE. The level of arrogance of you people astounds me. I'm going now.
Last edited by Ostroeuropa on Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Revolutopia
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Postby Revolutopia » Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:17 pm

Abatael wrote:
Revolutopia wrote:
Saying yours believes it is more important to protect a rapist then a child (and actively aided in this task), I don't think you have room to talk.


No, he has plenty, seeing how he is correct.


If the Pope ever visits Germany, they should follow Britain's action regarding Pinochet in 1998 and arrest him for abetting in child sexual abuse and allow him to rot in jail.
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Ermarian
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Postby Ermarian » Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:18 pm

Saint Jade IV wrote:So Roman Catholic priests, in a rather ironic twist, are claiming that proposed new laws will violate their most sacred and sacrosanct beliefs, by requiring priests to break the confessional seal and engage in the same mandatory reporting that every other profession is bound by.

Basically, if a priest confesses to paedophilia, they are required to report said priest to the authorities.

I'm unsure what the problem is.


So In Soviet Australia, you violate Roman Catholic Priest?
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Abatael
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Postby Abatael » Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:19 pm

Revolutopia wrote:
Abatael wrote:

No, he has plenty, seeing how he is correct.


If the Pope ever visits Germany, they should follow Britain's action regarding Pinochet in 1998 and arrest him for abetting in child sexual abuse and allow him to rot in jail.


Thanks, those words were very contributory to something.
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Ganos Lao
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Postby Ganos Lao » Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:19 pm

It really shouldn't have come to the point that they need to be compelled legally to do a moral act.
Last edited by Ganos Lao on Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.



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Abatael
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Postby Abatael » Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:20 pm

Ganos Lao wrote:It shouldn't have come to the point that they need to be compelled legally to do a moral thing.


No secular law can compel them to betray the penitent.
Last edited by Abatael on Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The Emerald Dawn
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Postby The Emerald Dawn » Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:20 pm

Abatael wrote:
The Emerald Dawn wrote:So your contention is that it is better to protect the penitent than provide comfort to the injured?

See, this is why I hate being a fucking Green.


Have you not been reading any of my posts?

I don't know what a "Green" is.

No, I've been reading your posts. You've stated, quite clearly, that protecting the penitent is absolute.

That means you value the sanctity of the penitent's confession over that of the child's right to not be violated.

Your assertion is Penitent > Abused.

Very simply stated, by you.

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Ganos Lao
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Postby Ganos Lao » Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:21 pm

Abatael wrote:
Ganos Lao wrote:It shouldn't have come to the point that they need to be compelled legally to do a moral thing.


No law can compel them to betray the penitent.


We wouldn't even be having to worry about that had they done the right thing all these decades instead of moving the perverts to another church. That's my point.



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ALMF
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Postby ALMF » Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:21 pm

NERVUN wrote:Excuse me for asking, but doesn't Australia have lawyer-client and doctor-patient privileges?

my understanding is child abuse and sexual abuse of all kinds are exempt from all privlige
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Nidaria
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Postby Nidaria » Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:21 pm

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Nidaria wrote:I can, I could write a lengthy essay here.


Why aren't you famous? Again, HUGE ego. HUUUUGE. The level of arrogance of you people astounds me. I'm going now.

I am sure the majority of people have written lengthy essays before, I hardly see how that is arrogant. I never said mine would be easy to produce or even well-written.
While you are away, please dwell on this discussion. You can still find truth.
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The Emerald Dawn
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Postby The Emerald Dawn » Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:22 pm

ALMF wrote:
NERVUN wrote:Excuse me for asking, but doesn't Australia have lawyer-client and doctor-patient privileges?

my understanding is child abuse and sexual abuse of all kinds are exempt from all privlige

Child abuse is, sexual abuse is not. Sexual abuse of a child is.

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Abatael
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Postby Abatael » Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:23 pm

The Emerald Dawn wrote:
Abatael wrote:
Have you not been reading any of my posts?

I don't know what a "Green" is.

No, I've been reading your posts. You've stated, quite clearly, that protecting the penitent is absolute.

That means you value the sanctity of the penitent's confession over that of the child's right to not be violated.

Your assertion is Penitent > Abused.

Very simply stated, by you.


This does not mean the abused are completely neglected. The confessor still urges the penitent to turn himself in and, simply because the penitent has confessed, does not mean all legal action against him will be halted. He can, and most likely will, go to prison for his crimes.
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Abatael
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Postby Abatael » Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:24 pm

Ganos Lao wrote:
Abatael wrote:
No law can compel them to betray the penitent.


We wouldn't even be having to worry about that had they done the right thing all these decades instead of moving the perverts to another church. That's my point.


They have been and still are doing the right thing: upholding the inviolable Seal of the Confessional.
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Wisconsin9
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Postby Wisconsin9 » Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:24 pm

Nidaria wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:
Why aren't you famous? Again, HUGE ego. HUUUUGE. The level of arrogance of you people astounds me. I'm going now.

I am sure the majority of people have written lengthy essays before, I hardly see how that is arrogant. I never said mine would be easy to produce or even well-written.
While you are away, please dwell on this discussion. You can still find truth.

I prefer to find truth in recent scientific experiments by certified professionals rather than two thousand year old books.
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The Emerald Dawn
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Postby The Emerald Dawn » Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:24 pm

Abatael wrote:
The Emerald Dawn wrote:No, I've been reading your posts. You've stated, quite clearly, that protecting the penitent is absolute.

That means you value the sanctity of the penitent's confession over that of the child's right to not be violated.

Your assertion is Penitent > Abused.

Very simply stated, by you.


This does not mean the abused are completely neglected. The confessor still urges the penitent to turn himself in and, simply because the penitent has confessed, does not mean all legal action against him will be halted. He can, and most likely will, go to prison for his crimes.

So...all the priests who have been hidden all over Ireland for all these years, who didn't face jail, who didn't face a jury, who didn't face justice, because the Holy See hid them. Those confessors sure did a grand fucking job urging the penitents to turn themselves in.

You are still asserting that the Penitent > Abused.

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Abatael
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Postby Abatael » Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:27 pm

The Emerald Dawn wrote:
Abatael wrote:
This does not mean the abused are completely neglected. The confessor still urges the penitent to turn himself in and, simply because the penitent has confessed, does not mean all legal action against him will be halted. He can, and most likely will, go to prison for his crimes.

So...all the priests who have been hidden all over Ireland for all these years, who didn't face jail, who didn't face a jury, who didn't face justice, because the Holy See hid them. Those confessors sure did a grand fucking job urging the penitents to turn themselves in.

You are still asserting that the Penitent > Abused.


You do not know what the confessors may have or may not have done.

Yes, I am. Thank you for that reminder: I was beginning to forget my stance.
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Saint Jade IV
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Postby Saint Jade IV » Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:27 pm

Jinos wrote:
Auralia wrote:I do not see how the confessional seal is any different from attorney-client privilege or doctor-patient confidentiality.


Doctor patient confidentiality is not infinite. Doctors must report patients who have broken the law. I think you misunderstand what the confidentiality is suppose to cover in that case.



Doctors are not permitted to report patients who are overdosing for instance, or whose test results show drugs, except where the test is specifically for that purpose.
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Ganos Lao
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Postby Ganos Lao » Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:27 pm

Abatael wrote:
Ganos Lao wrote:
We wouldn't even be having to worry about that had they done the right thing all these decades instead of moving the perverts to another church. That's my point.


They have been and still are doing the right thing: upholding the inviolable Seal of the Confessional.


So then why are they dealing with decades worth of accusations, lawsuits, condemnation, criticism, losing interest in the faith, etc? You claim that they have been doing the right thing for decades. It sure doesn't seem like it. Look around. Why are so many people highlighting that the offending priests were merely shuffled to other parishes as if nothing ever happened? Why are we in this situation when the Catholic Church is being hammered at by victims of sexual abuse to the point that Australia is considering prying open the seal on the sacrament of confession?

Had the Catholic Church made it her policy to immediately report any and all sex crimes instead of shuffling them to other churches and generally not giving a damn about the kids, we would not be in this situation. There would be no need to break the confessional seal. That is my point, Ab. We shouldn't have to compel the Church to do something that anyone with a heart would do with some law - the Church should've known better from the get go.
Last edited by Ganos Lao on Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Revolutopia
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Postby Revolutopia » Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:27 pm

Nidaria wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:
You can't prove catholicism either.

I can, I could write a lengthy essay here.


If it so easy to prove catholicism, then why is only 17.5% of the world catholic?

Moreover, why did Catholics have to rely on conquest to spread their faith if they could just write simply essays doing the same?
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Abatael
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Postby Abatael » Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:29 pm

Ganos Lao wrote:
Abatael wrote:
They have been and still are doing the right thing: upholding the inviolable Seal of the Confessional.


So then why are they dealing with decades worth of accusations, lawsuits, condemnation, criticism, losing interest in the faith, etc? You claim that they have been doing the right thing for decades. So why are so many people highlighting that the offending priests were merely shuffled to other parishes as if nothing ever happened? So why are we in this situation when the Catholic Church is being hammered at by victims of sexual abuse to the point that Australia is considering prying open the seal on the sacrament of confession?

Had the Catholic Church made it her policy to immediately report any and all sex crimes instead of shuffling them to other churches and generally not giving a damn about the kids, we would not be in this situation. There would be no need to break the confessional seal. That is my point, Ab. We shouldn't have to compel the Church to do something that anyone with a heart would do with some law - the Church should've known better from the get go.


The right thing to do is not always the easiest thing to do.

Anyone with a sense of morality would know that violating the Seal is nefas.
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Wisconsin9
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Postby Wisconsin9 » Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:30 pm

Abatael wrote:
The Emerald Dawn wrote:So...all the priests who have been hidden all over Ireland for all these years, who didn't face jail, who didn't face a jury, who didn't face justice, because the Holy See hid them. Those confessors sure did a grand fucking job urging the penitents to turn themselves in.

You are still asserting that the Penitent > Abused.


You do not know what the confessors may have or may not have done.

Yes, I am. Thank you for that reminder: I was beginning to forget my stance.

So it's better to protect someone who's knowingly committed one of the worst crimes a human could commit as long as he pretends to feel a bit guilty about it, rather than stop him and protect more people is what you're saying.
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Ganos Lao
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Postby Ganos Lao » Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:30 pm

Abatael wrote:
Ganos Lao wrote:
So then why are they dealing with decades worth of accusations, lawsuits, condemnation, criticism, losing interest in the faith, etc? You claim that they have been doing the right thing for decades. So why are so many people highlighting that the offending priests were merely shuffled to other parishes as if nothing ever happened? So why are we in this situation when the Catholic Church is being hammered at by victims of sexual abuse to the point that Australia is considering prying open the seal on the sacrament of confession?

Had the Catholic Church made it her policy to immediately report any and all sex crimes instead of shuffling them to other churches and generally not giving a damn about the kids, we would not be in this situation. There would be no need to break the confessional seal. That is my point, Ab. We shouldn't have to compel the Church to do something that anyone with a heart would do with some law - the Church should've known better from the get go.


The right thing to do is not always the easiest thing to do.

Anyone with a sense of morality would know that violating the Seal is nefas.


You're not really paying attention to me, are you?



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The Emerald Dawn
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Postby The Emerald Dawn » Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:30 pm

Wisconsin9 wrote:
Abatael wrote:
You do not know what the confessors may have or may not have done.

Yes, I am. Thank you for that reminder: I was beginning to forget my stance.

So it's better to protect someone who's knowingly committed one of the worst crimes a human could commit as long as he pretends to feel a bit guilty about it, rather than stop him and protect more people is what you're saying.

That is indeed what he has been saying.

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