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Great Nepal
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Founded: Jan 11, 2010
Father Knows Best State

Postby Great Nepal » Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:08 pm

Nidaria wrote:The Church exists in a different sphere than the State. Each cannot interfere with the other. Also, "consent of people" is not absolute.

No.
Church exists inside state and operates under state supremacy.
Last edited by Great Nepal on Sun Nov 29, 1995 7:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Nidaria
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Postby Nidaria » Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:08 pm

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Nidaria wrote:The Church exists in a different sphere than the State. Each cannot interfere with the other. Also, "consent of people" is not absolute.


This is also an argument that can be used for human sacrifice.

It cannot, as God Himself condemned human sacrifice.
"He who denies the existence of God has some reason for wishing that God did not exist." --St. Augustine
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"When statesmen forsake their own private conscience for the sake of their public duties... they lead their country by a short route to chaos." --St. Thomas More
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Nidaria
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Postby Nidaria » Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:09 pm

Great Nepal wrote:
Nidaria wrote:The Church exists in a different sphere than the State. Each cannot interfere with the other. Also, "consent of people" is not absolute.

No.
Church exists inside state and operates under state supremacy.

The Church exists outside and above the State.
"He who denies the existence of God has some reason for wishing that God did not exist." --St. Augustine
"There is only one difference between genius and stupidity: genius has limits." --Albert Einstein
"When statesmen forsake their own private conscience for the sake of their public duties... they lead their country by a short route to chaos." --St. Thomas More
Anti-gay, Pro-life, Traditionalist, Libertarian, Non-interventionist, Loyal Roman Catholic
Cosmopolitan/Nationalistic 25%
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Wisconsin9
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Founded: May 18, 2012
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Wisconsin9 » Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:09 pm

'Bout damn time!
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We are currently 33% through the Trump administration.
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Ostroeuropa
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:09 pm

Nidaria wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:
This is also an argument that can be used for human sacrifice.

It cannot, as God Himself condemned human sacrifice.


No he didn't, he said we need to do it to keep the sun rising.
Which high priest have YOU been listening to?!
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Nidaria
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Postby Nidaria » Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:10 pm

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Nidaria wrote:It cannot, as God Himself condemned human sacrifice.


No he didn't, he said we need to do it to keep the sun rising.
Which high priest have YOU been listening to?!

You have been listening to the wrong one.
"He who denies the existence of God has some reason for wishing that God did not exist." --St. Augustine
"There is only one difference between genius and stupidity: genius has limits." --Albert Einstein
"When statesmen forsake their own private conscience for the sake of their public duties... they lead their country by a short route to chaos." --St. Thomas More
Anti-gay, Pro-life, Traditionalist, Libertarian, Non-interventionist, Loyal Roman Catholic
Cosmopolitan/Nationalistic 25%
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Ostroeuropa
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Founded: Jun 14, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:10 pm

Nidaria wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:
No he didn't, he said we need to do it to keep the sun rising.
Which high priest have YOU been listening to?!

You have been listening to the wrong one.


Why is yours special again? Because its yours? Thats a HUGE ego you have.
Either come up with an actual reason Catholicism is special or go away.
Last edited by Ostroeuropa on Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Abatael
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Founded: Mar 03, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Abatael » Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:11 pm

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Abatael wrote:
The Church still does not approve of condoms. Their usage is still condemned.


http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2010/11/2 ... umstances/

You are out of date.
ZOMG REVELATION U GUYS!

We're TOTES not making this up as we go along! God told me it's ok!


That is not an official policy of the Vatican.

Great Nepal wrote:
Abatael wrote:
It does not matter what laws have been instated by the secular state. In every circumstance, the law of God outweighs the law of the secular state.

You may not follow the law of God, and you may feel it is not important.

No, it doesn't.
In this century, we have accepted supremacy of state whose authority is derived from consent of people; quite move from supremacy of some ancient dude.


It does not matter what you accept. Just as one may accept 2 + 2 = 5, they would be wrong.

The state has no control over the Church.
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Revolutopia
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Ex-Nation

Postby Revolutopia » Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:11 pm

Nidaria wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:
No he didn't, he said we need to do it to keep the sun rising.
Which high priest have YOU been listening to?!

You have been listening to the wrong one.


Saying yours believes it is more important to protect a rapist then a child (and actively aided in this task), I don't think you have room to talk.
The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.-FDR

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Who is Tom Joad?

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Great Nepal
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Founded: Jan 11, 2010
Father Knows Best State

Postby Great Nepal » Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:12 pm

Nidaria wrote:
Great Nepal wrote:No.
Church exists inside state and operates under state supremacy.

The Church exists outside and above the State.

No, it fucking doesn't.
Supremacy of state is universally accepted among most rational people in this century.
Last edited by Great Nepal on Sun Nov 29, 1995 7:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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New Hayesalia wrote:JWs told him that IVF babies weren't real babies and only naturally concieved babies were. Then he told 'em by that logic Jesus wasn't a real baby. Then they walked off...

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Nidaria
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Postby Nidaria » Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:12 pm

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Nidaria wrote:You have been listening to the wrong one.


Why is yours special again? Because its yours? Thats a HUGE ego you have.
Either come up with an actual reason Catholicism is special or go away.

Catholicism was established by the Son of God. It is also the only religion actually based on love.
"He who denies the existence of God has some reason for wishing that God did not exist." --St. Augustine
"There is only one difference between genius and stupidity: genius has limits." --Albert Einstein
"When statesmen forsake their own private conscience for the sake of their public duties... they lead their country by a short route to chaos." --St. Thomas More
Anti-gay, Pro-life, Traditionalist, Libertarian, Non-interventionist, Loyal Roman Catholic
Cosmopolitan/Nationalistic 25%
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Anarchistic/Authoritarian 6%
Communist/Capitalist 41%
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Nidaria
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Postby Nidaria » Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:12 pm

Great Nepal wrote:
Nidaria wrote:The Church exists outside and above the State.

No, it ****ing doesn't.
Supremacy of state is universally accepted among most irrational people in this century.

I fixed that for you.
"He who denies the existence of God has some reason for wishing that God did not exist." --St. Augustine
"There is only one difference between genius and stupidity: genius has limits." --Albert Einstein
"When statesmen forsake their own private conscience for the sake of their public duties... they lead their country by a short route to chaos." --St. Thomas More
Anti-gay, Pro-life, Traditionalist, Libertarian, Non-interventionist, Loyal Roman Catholic
Cosmopolitan/Nationalistic 25%
Secular/Fundamentalist 67%
Visionary/Reactionary 21%
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Communist/Capitalist 41%
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Ostroeuropa
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Founded: Jun 14, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:13 pm

Nidaria wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:
Why is yours special again? Because its yours? Thats a HUGE ego you have.
Either come up with an actual reason Catholicism is special or go away.

Catholicism was established by the Son of God. It is also the only religion actually based on love.


So?
"My" religion was established by the Son of God (HOW FUCKING WEIRD THAT ITS SO COMMON, almost like you guys PLAGIARIZED it), and I can make the bullshit claim that it's based on love too.
So, get on the damn altar, we need your heart.
Last edited by Ostroeuropa on Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Abatael
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Ex-Nation

Postby Abatael » Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:13 pm

Great Nepal wrote:
Nidaria wrote:The Church exists outside and above the State.

No, it fucking doesn't.
Supremacy of state is universally accepted among most rational people in this century.


Yes, it "fucking" does.

No one gives a crap. You are wrong.

Revolutopia wrote:
Nidaria wrote:You have been listening to the wrong one.


Saying yours believes it is more important to protect a rapist then a child (and actively aided in this task), I don't think you have room to talk.


No, he has plenty, seeing how he is correct.
IMPERIVM·NOVVM·VENOLIÆ.
PAX·PER·BELLVM.
ROMVLVS·AVRELIVS·SECVNDVS.
DEVS·VENOLIAM·BENEDICAT.

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Great Nepal
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Founded: Jan 11, 2010
Father Knows Best State

Postby Great Nepal » Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:14 pm

Abatael wrote:It does not matter what you accept. Just as one may accept 2 + 2 = 5, they would be wrong.
The state has no control over the Church.

Yes, it does.
Thats generally why we banned honour killings, human sacrifice, witch hunting and many other religious practice.
Last edited by Great Nepal on Sun Nov 29, 1995 7:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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New Hayesalia wrote:JWs told him that IVF babies weren't real babies and only naturally concieved babies were. Then he told 'em by that logic Jesus wasn't a real baby. Then they walked off...

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Revolutopia
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Founded: May 25, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Revolutopia » Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:14 pm

Nidaria wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:
Why is yours special again? Because its yours? Thats a HUGE ego you have.
Either come up with an actual reason Catholicism is special or go away.

Catholicism was established by the Son of God. It is also the only religion actually based on love.


Protestants, Eastern Orthodox, Mormons, Jews, Muslims, etc all disagree with the latter. While, the first three also disagree with the former.

And these all have the same validity as catholicism.
The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.-FDR

Economic Left/Right: -3.12|Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.49

Who is Tom Joad?

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Ostroeuropa
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Founded: Jun 14, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:14 pm

Nidaria wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:
Why is yours special again? Because its yours? Thats a HUGE ego you have.
Either come up with an actual reason Catholicism is special or go away.

Catholicism was established by the Son of God. It is also the only religion actually based on love.


Oh also, either Judaism is also based on love, in which case at least two religions are, or you are bullshitting.

And if you count them as the same thing, why not Islam.
You have a staggering amount of intellectual dishonesty
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Nidaria
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Founded: Mar 30, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Nidaria » Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:14 pm

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Nidaria wrote:Catholicism was established by the Son of God. It is also the only religion actually based on love.


So?
"My" religion was established by the Son of God (HOW ****ING WEIRD THAT ITS SO COMMON, almost like you guys PLAGIARIZED it), and I can make the bullshit claim that it's based on love too.
So, get on the damn altar, we need your heart.

If you cannot prove it, you are guilty of blasphemy.
"He who denies the existence of God has some reason for wishing that God did not exist." --St. Augustine
"There is only one difference between genius and stupidity: genius has limits." --Albert Einstein
"When statesmen forsake their own private conscience for the sake of their public duties... they lead their country by a short route to chaos." --St. Thomas More
Anti-gay, Pro-life, Traditionalist, Libertarian, Non-interventionist, Loyal Roman Catholic
Cosmopolitan/Nationalistic 25%
Secular/Fundamentalist 67%
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The Emerald Dawn
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Founded: Jun 11, 2012
Mother Knows Best State

Postby The Emerald Dawn » Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:14 pm

Abatael wrote:
Great Nepal wrote:No, it fucking doesn't.
Supremacy of state is universally accepted among most rational people in this century.


Yes, it "fucking" does.

No one gives a crap. You are wrong.

Revolutopia wrote:
Saying yours believes it is more important to protect a rapist then a child (and actively aided in this task), I don't think you have room to talk.


No, he has plenty, seeing how he is correct.

So your contention is that it is better to protect the penitent than provide comfort to the injured?

See, this is why I hate being a fucking Green.

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Abatael
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Postby Abatael » Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:15 pm

Great Nepal wrote:
Abatael wrote:It does not matter what you accept. Just as one may accept 2 + 2 = 5, they would be wrong.
The state has no control over the Church.

Yes, it does.
Thats generally why we banned honour killings, human sacrifice, witch hunting and many other religious practice.


No, it doesn't. Why am I even talking to you?
IMPERIVM·NOVVM·VENOLIÆ.
PAX·PER·BELLVM.
ROMVLVS·AVRELIVS·SECVNDVS.
DEVS·VENOLIAM·BENEDICAT.

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Ostroeuropa
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Founded: Jun 14, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:15 pm

Nidaria wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:
So?
"My" religion was established by the Son of God (HOW ****ING WEIRD THAT ITS SO COMMON, almost like you guys PLAGIARIZED it), and I can make the bullshit claim that it's based on love too.
So, get on the damn altar, we need your heart.

If you cannot prove it, you are guilty of blasphemy.


You can't prove catholicism either.
British Nationalist And Syndicalist.

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Nidaria
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Founded: Mar 30, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Nidaria » Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:15 pm

Great Nepal wrote:
Abatael wrote:It does not matter what you accept. Just as one may accept 2 + 2 = 5, they would be wrong.
The state has no control over the Church.

Yes, it does.
Thats generally why we banned honour killings, human sacrifice, witch hunting and many other religious practice.

Those were never religious practices of the Church.
"He who denies the existence of God has some reason for wishing that God did not exist." --St. Augustine
"There is only one difference between genius and stupidity: genius has limits." --Albert Einstein
"When statesmen forsake their own private conscience for the sake of their public duties... they lead their country by a short route to chaos." --St. Thomas More
Anti-gay, Pro-life, Traditionalist, Libertarian, Non-interventionist, Loyal Roman Catholic
Cosmopolitan/Nationalistic 25%
Secular/Fundamentalist 67%
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Nidaria
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Founded: Mar 30, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Nidaria » Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:16 pm

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Nidaria wrote:If you cannot prove it, you are guilty of blasphemy.


You can't prove catholicism either.

I can, I could write a lengthy essay here.
"He who denies the existence of God has some reason for wishing that God did not exist." --St. Augustine
"There is only one difference between genius and stupidity: genius has limits." --Albert Einstein
"When statesmen forsake their own private conscience for the sake of their public duties... they lead their country by a short route to chaos." --St. Thomas More
Anti-gay, Pro-life, Traditionalist, Libertarian, Non-interventionist, Loyal Roman Catholic
Cosmopolitan/Nationalistic 25%
Secular/Fundamentalist 67%
Visionary/Reactionary 21%
Anarchistic/Authoritarian 6%
Communist/Capitalist 41%
Pacifist/Militaristic 7%
Ecological/Anthropocentric 52%

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Abatael
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Founded: Mar 03, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Abatael » Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:16 pm

The Emerald Dawn wrote:
Abatael wrote:
Yes, it "fucking" does.

No one gives a crap. You are wrong.



No, he has plenty, seeing how he is correct.

So your contention is that it is better to protect the penitent than provide comfort to the injured?

See, this is why I hate being a fucking Green.


Have you not been reading any of my posts?

I don't know what a "Green" is.
IMPERIVM·NOVVM·VENOLIÆ.
PAX·PER·BELLVM.
ROMVLVS·AVRELIVS·SECVNDVS.
DEVS·VENOLIAM·BENEDICAT.

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Adventus Secundus
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Founded: May 07, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Adventus Secundus » Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:16 pm

Great Nepal wrote:
Nidaria wrote:Religious and moral law trumps civil law. This is a clear persecution of the Catholic Church.

Have you stumbled on time machine around fifteenth century?
This is twenty first century, we trend to do things differently around here than in your century.


For any faithful believer, the laws of God do trump the laws of man. Morality is not a temporal or relative affair. I understand why the Catholic Church is unwilling to budge on this particular issue, though I do not necessarily agree with the doctrine of individual, private confession as part of someone's salvation.

Honestly, the problem is the celibacy imposed on Catholic Clergy. If priests were allowed to marry, lust, and the things that sometimes grow out of lust (pedophilia, for example) would be less of a problem. Although the historical reasons for said vow of celibacy, I do appreciate, it still needs to change.

As to the comments that priests are all out for themselves: I call shenanigans! Do you honestly believe someone would foreswear sex (or even marriage) and significant wealth (most priests do lead comfortable lives...but not excessive) to perform ancient rituals and listen to people's sins because they are...in it for themselves? Are you that blind? People do do things out of sincere religious conviction, whether or not you happen to believe as they do.
“The supreme function of reason is to show man that some things are beyond reason”---Blaise Pascal
"Just by being themselves, they make the best case against humanism." Luke Winkie

Constantinopolis wrote:
To paraphrase C.S. Lewis, I would choose to live as if God existed even if I knew He didn't. Either I am on the side of Life Victorious, or I am making a defiant but hopeless last stand against the all-consuming abyss. It does not really matter which it is. I am doing the right thing either way.

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