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Roman Catholic Priests to be violated in Australia

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Ostroeuropa
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Postby Ostroeuropa » Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:46 pm

Abatael wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:
They are asking to change the law, and the discussion is about why the priests are complaining about the proposed change.
Also source.


No, it is not. The discussion is about the law in general and anything related to the law. There was nothing prohibiting this discussion to that only.

Code of Canon Law, 983 Section 1: The sacramental seal is inviolable; therefore, it is absolutely forbidden for a confessor to betray, in any way, a penitent, in words or in any manner and for any reason.


I don't see how a club's rulebook should dictate what the law of a nation should be.
Your club is not special.
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Abatael
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Postby Abatael » Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:46 pm

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Abatael wrote:
The problem is the government thinks it can violate this Seal; it cannot and will not.


If a club aids and abett a crime because their club rules demand it, that's fine. We can't change their rules.
But we CAN punish them for it. And that is what will be done.
Yes, a priest may be thrown out of the church for disobeying church doctrine. We don't care. We'll punish them for breaking the law.


Do whatever you want; they won't violate the Seal.

Great Nepal wrote:
Abatael wrote:
The problem is the government thinks it can violate this Seal; it cannot and will not.

Of course it cant.
What it can do is demand priest disclose child molesters and punish them for not complying with court order; just like there is law against honour killing but people can do it... then face force of the law.


Exactly. And no government will ever get anything out of this; it is futile.
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Great Nepal
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Postby Great Nepal » Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:46 pm

Abatael wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:
They are asking to change the law, and the discussion is about why the priests are complaining about the proposed change.
Also source.


No, it is not. The discussion is about the law in general and anything related to the law. There was nothing prohibiting this discussion to that only.

Code of Canon Law, 983 Section 1: The sacramental seal is inviolable; therefore, it is absolutely forbidden for a confessor to betray, in any way, a penitent, in words or in any manner and for any reason.

We dont care.

Here is national law.
Here is state law.
Here is city law.




Here is code of cannon law and other religious laws.
National government enforces national law, and priest decides if they want to follow national law or religious one. If they choose latter; they will face sanctions under national one.
Last edited by Great Nepal on Sun Nov 29, 1995 7:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Ostroeuropa
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Postby Ostroeuropa » Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:47 pm

Abatael wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:
If a club aids and abett a crime because their club rules demand it, that's fine. We can't change their rules.
But we CAN punish them for it. And that is what will be done.
Yes, a priest may be thrown out of the church for disobeying church doctrine. We don't care. We'll punish them for breaking the law.


Do whatever you want; they won't violate the Seal.

Great Nepal wrote:Of course it cant.
What it can do is demand priest disclose child molesters and punish them for not complying with court order; just like there is law against honour killing but people can do it... then face force of the law.


Exactly. And no government will ever get anything out of this; it is futile.


Sure they will.
The catholic church has demonstrated that it is infuriatingly immoral and adaptable.
They WILL obey this law, because the priests are all shits out for themselves, and won't risk jail.
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Great Nepal
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Postby Great Nepal » Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:47 pm

Abatael wrote:
Great Nepal wrote:Of course it cant.
What it can do is demand priest disclose child molesters and punish them for not complying with court order; just like there is law against honour killing but people can do it... then face force of the law.


Exactly. And no government will ever get anything out of this; it is futile.

So, by that logic we should legalise honour killing cos some people still do it?
Last edited by Great Nepal on Sun Nov 29, 1995 7:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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New Hayesalia wrote:JWs told him that IVF babies weren't real babies and only naturally concieved babies were. Then he told 'em by that logic Jesus wasn't a real baby. Then they walked off...

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Abatael
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Postby Abatael » Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:48 pm

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Abatael wrote:
No, it is not. The discussion is about the law in general and anything related to the law. There was nothing prohibiting this discussion to that only.

Code of Canon Law, 983 Section 1: The sacramental seal is inviolable; therefore, it is absolutely forbidden for a confessor to betray, in any way, a penitent, in words or in any manner and for any reason.


I don't see how a club's rulebook should dictate what the law of a nation should be.
Your club is not special.


They will not conform with the law under any circumstance. They will be civilly disobedient; they will break the law, be tortured, humiliated, ruined, and executed before disclosing the confession.
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ROMVLVS·AVRELIVS·SECVNDVS.
DEVS·VENOLIAM·BENEDICAT.

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Ostroeuropa
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Founded: Jun 14, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:48 pm

Abatael wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:
I don't see how a club's rulebook should dictate what the law of a nation should be.
Your club is not special.


They will not conform with the law under any circumstance. They will be civilly disobedient; they will break the law, be tortured, humiliated, ruined, and executed before disclosing the confession.


Fine by me.
But you are wrong. They'll do what they always do. Have a convenient revelation allowing them to change the rules to suit the law.
Last edited by Ostroeuropa on Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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L Ron Cupboard
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Ex-Nation

Postby L Ron Cupboard » Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:48 pm

Abatael wrote:Do whatever you want; they won't violate the Seal.


They take that particular rule more seriously than the one about not violating children?
A leopard in every home, you know it makes sense.

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Great Nepal
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Postby Great Nepal » Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:50 pm

L Ron Cupboard wrote:
Abatael wrote:Do whatever you want; they won't violate the Seal.


They take that particular rule more seriously than the one about not violating children?

No, they will most likely take option of not going to jail more seriously than either of those.
Last edited by Great Nepal on Sun Nov 29, 1995 7:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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New Hayesalia wrote:JWs told him that IVF babies weren't real babies and only naturally concieved babies were. Then he told 'em by that logic Jesus wasn't a real baby. Then they walked off...

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Abatael
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Ex-Nation

Postby Abatael » Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:50 pm

Great Nepal wrote:
Abatael wrote:
No, it is not. The discussion is about the law in general and anything related to the law. There was nothing prohibiting this discussion to that only.

Code of Canon Law, 983 Section 1: The sacramental seal is inviolable; therefore, it is absolutely forbidden for a confessor to betray, in any way, a penitent, in words or in any manner and for any reason.

We dont care.

Here is national law.
Here is state law.
Here is city law.




Here is code of cannon law and other religious laws.
National government enforces national law, and priest decides if they want to follow national law or religious one. If they choose latter; they will face sanctions under national one.


The priest does not decide; God decides, and it has been decided that they will not violate the Seal.

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Abatael wrote:
Do whatever you want; they won't violate the Seal.



Exactly. And no government will ever get anything out of this; it is futile.


Sure they will.
The catholic church has demonstrated that it is infuriatingly immoral and adaptable.
They WILL obey this law, because the priests are all shits out for themselves, and won't risk jail.


No, they won't. They will follow Canon Law accordingly.

Great Nepal wrote:
Abatael wrote:

Exactly. And no government will ever get anything out of this; it is futile.

So, by that logic we should legalise honour killing cos some people still do it?


This is a false analogy. You are comparing killing someone to disclosing information.
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Raeyh
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Postby Raeyh » Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:51 pm

Abatael wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:
I don't see how a club's rulebook should dictate what the law of a nation should be.
Your club is not special.


They will not conform with the law under any circumstance. They will be civilly disobedient; they will break the law, be tortured, humiliated, ruined, and executed before disclosing the confession.


Then they go to jail. I would think the faithful would be pleased for an opportunity to show their faith.

"Blessed are those who have been persecuted for the sake of righteousness"

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Ostroeuropa
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:51 pm

Abatael wrote:
Great Nepal wrote:We dont care.

Here is national law.
Here is state law.
Here is city law.




Here is code of cannon law and other religious laws.
National government enforces national law, and priest decides if they want to follow national law or religious one. If they choose latter; they will face sanctions under national one.


The priest does not decide; God decides, and it has been decided that they will not violate the Seal.

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Sure they will.
The catholic church has demonstrated that it is infuriatingly immoral and adaptable.
They WILL obey this law, because the priests are all shits out for themselves, and won't risk jail.


No, they won't. They will follow Canon Law accordingly.

Great Nepal wrote:So, by that logic we should legalise honour killing cos some people still do it?


This is a false analogy. You are comparing killing someone to disclosing information.


Just like the whole
"CANON LA-what? we can't do slavery anymore? OMG I HAD A REVELATION U GAIZ IT'S NOT COOL 2 SLAVERY."
"CANON LAW!!! What? Jews in fires? People are angry at us? Uh... REVELATION U GAIZ!"
"CHURCH DOCTRINE! CONDOMS!!! uh...ok...sure, condoms is ok if you got aids igues.."
Last edited by Ostroeuropa on Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Abatael
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Postby Abatael » Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:52 pm

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Abatael wrote:
They will not conform with the law under any circumstance. They will be civilly disobedient; they will break the law, be tortured, humiliated, ruined, and executed before disclosing the confession.


Fine by me.
But you are wrong. They'll do what they always do. Have a convenient revelation allowing them to change the rules to suit the law.


When that happens, I will retract this all, but it won't happen, so there will be no retraction.

L Ron Cupboard wrote:
Abatael wrote:Do whatever you want; they won't violate the Seal.


They take that particular rule more seriously than the one about not violating children?


The Seal is absolute; so, yes.
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Great Nepal
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Postby Great Nepal » Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:52 pm

Abatael wrote:
Great Nepal wrote:We dont care.

Here is national law.
Here is state law.
Here is city law.




Here is code of cannon law and other religious laws.
National government enforces national law, and priest decides if they want to follow national law or religious one. If they choose latter; they will face sanctions under national one.


The priest does not decide; God decides, and it has been decided that they will not violate the Seal.

No, priest decides if they care about children or stupid seal. If they choose latter, they are in violation of national law and will face punishment they deserve.

Great Nepal wrote:
Abatael wrote:This is a false analogy. You are comparing killing someone to disclosing information.

Disclosing information about child molesters who are threat to public.
Last edited by Great Nepal on Sun Nov 29, 1995 7:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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New Hayesalia wrote:JWs told him that IVF babies weren't real babies and only naturally concieved babies were. Then he told 'em by that logic Jesus wasn't a real baby. Then they walked off...

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Abatael
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Postby Abatael » Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:53 pm

Raeyh wrote:
Abatael wrote:
They will not conform with the law under any circumstance. They will be civilly disobedient; they will break the law, be tortured, humiliated, ruined, and executed before disclosing the confession.


Then they go to jail. I would think the faithful would be pleased for an opportunity to show their faith.

"Blessed are those who have been persecuted for the sake of righteousness"


Yes, this is what I am saying.
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Ostroeuropa
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:54 pm

Abatael wrote:
Raeyh wrote:
Then they go to jail. I would think the faithful would be pleased for an opportunity to show their faith.

"Blessed are those who have been persecuted for the sake of righteousness"


Yes, this is what I am saying.


Ok great.
This is an outcome i'm fine with.
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Nidaria
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Postby Nidaria » Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:55 pm

Great Nepal wrote:
Abatael wrote:
No, it is not. The discussion is about the law in general and anything related to the law. There was nothing prohibiting this discussion to that only.

Code of Canon Law, 983 Section 1: The sacramental seal is inviolable; therefore, it is absolutely forbidden for a confessor to betray, in any way, a penitent, in words or in any manner and for any reason.

We dont care.

Here is national law.
Here is state law.
Here is city law.




Here is code of cannon law and other religious laws.
National government enforces national law, and priest decides if they want to follow national law or religious one. If they choose latter; they will face sanctions under national one.

Religious and moral law trumps civil law. This is a clear persecution of the Catholic Church.
"He who denies the existence of God has some reason for wishing that God did not exist." --St. Augustine
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Revolutopia
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Postby Revolutopia » Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:56 pm

Abatael wrote:
The priest does not decide; God decides, and it has been decided that they will not violate the Seal.


God never once mentions any seal of confessional in the Bible, while he does speak against abusing children.

Yet, a number of Catholic Priests have had no problem breaking the latter, and the Church Higher Ups have had no problem protecting those priests.
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Abatael
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Postby Abatael » Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:56 pm

Great Nepal wrote:
Abatael wrote:
The priest does not decide; God decides, and it has been decided that they will not violate the Seal.

No, priest decides if they care about children or stupid seal. If they choose latter, they are in violation of national law and will face punishment they deserve.


They will not disclose it or violate the Seal of the Confessional under any circumstances.

They will face a punishment, if one is imposed; that is rather obvious.

Great Nepal wrote:
Abatael wrote:This is a false analogy. You are comparing killing someone to disclosing information.

Disclosing information about child molesters who are threat to public.


Murdering =/= Disclosing information.

In words: Murder is not an analog to violating the Seal.
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Ostroeuropa
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Founded: Jun 14, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:56 pm

Nidaria wrote:
Great Nepal wrote:We dont care.

Here is national law.
Here is state law.
Here is city law.




Here is code of cannon law and other religious laws.
National government enforces national law, and priest decides if they want to follow national law or religious one. If they choose latter; they will face sanctions under national one.

Religious and moral law trumps civil law. This is a clear persecution of the Aztec Church.


(Fixed.)
Now, justify why you are against human sacrifice.
Last edited by Ostroeuropa on Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Northwest Slobovia
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Postby Northwest Slobovia » Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:56 pm

Abatael wrote:
Great Nepal wrote:We dont care.

Here is national law.
Here is state law.
Here is city law.




Here is code of cannon law and other religious laws.
National government enforces national law, and priest decides if they want to follow national law or religious one. If they choose latter; they will face sanctions under national one.


The priest does not decide; God decides, and it has been decided that they will not violate the Seal.

I believe God decided that rape was wrong, and priests do it anyway. Amazing how that works.
Gollum died for your sins.
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Threlizdun
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Threlizdun » Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:57 pm

Nidaria wrote:Religious and moral law trumps civil law. This is a clear persecution of the Catholic Church.

Fortunately you are wrong on both accounts. Civil law most certainly trumps religious law and the Catholic Church is not being given special status over others.
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Great Nepal
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Great Nepal » Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:58 pm

Nidaria wrote:Religious and moral law trumps civil law. This is a clear persecution of the Catholic Church.

Have you stumbled on time machine around fifteenth century?
This is twenty first century, we trend to do things differently around here than in your century.
Last edited by Great Nepal on Sun Nov 29, 1995 7:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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New Hayesalia wrote:JWs told him that IVF babies weren't real babies and only naturally concieved babies were. Then he told 'em by that logic Jesus wasn't a real baby. Then they walked off...

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Revolutopia
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Founded: May 25, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Revolutopia » Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:58 pm

Nidaria wrote:
Great Nepal wrote:We dont care.

Here is national law.
Here is state law.
Here is city law.




Here is code of cannon law and other religious laws.
National government enforces national law, and priest decides if they want to follow national law or religious one. If they choose latter; they will face sanctions under national one.

Religious and moral law trumps civil law. This is a clear persecution of the Catholic Church.


No, it actually the opposite civil law trumps Religious and moral law.

Additionally, this only a revocation of a special privilege that the CC doesn't deserve.
The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.-FDR

Economic Left/Right: -3.12|Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.49

Who is Tom Joad?

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Abatael
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Founded: Mar 03, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Abatael » Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:58 pm

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Abatael wrote:
Yes, this is what I am saying.


Ok great.
This is an outcome i'm fine with.


I was not arguing they will not be punished.

Revolutopia wrote:
Abatael wrote:
The priest does not decide; God decides, and it has been decided that they will not violate the Seal.


God never once mentions any seal of confessional in the Bible, while he does speak against abusing children.

Yet, a number of Catholic Priests have had no problem breaking the latter, and the Church Higher Ups have had no problem protecting those priests.


But Pope has, and His Holiness is the method, through which the will of God is revealed.

Cry me a river.
Last edited by Abatael on Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ROMVLVS·AVRELIVS·SECVNDVS.
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