US Forces in Japan. Maintain or Withdraw?

[Ranmaverse]

Possibly the biggest issue preventing the American's from leaving is the Japanese government. They invited the American's to stay as guests. They're slow, and I think they're afraid to tell them to get out.

The Japanese people (Mostly Okinawan's) have had no problems protesting against the American's before, they have the confidence to stand up to them. The American government really does try its best to keep the worst from happening, but as my research found, it is to no avail, atrocities still happen.

It simply is not working. The Japanese government needs to grow some balls before the American's will leave, or the American's need to cool their jets.

Also, the reason most American's are unaware of the awful things their military has done is minor censorship. It's in the American news, but it's clouded, and pushed to the back of the board. That is why so many American's are unaware, some simple research would fix that though.

[Western cuba]

I agree with your statement that US forces in Japan are no longer needed.

However, the US military forces located on Okinawa are far fairer than the Japanese Army that defended it during WW2. 25 murders is never a good thing, however that was in a span of over 40 years.

During the Battle of Okinawa thousands of Okinawan citizens were trapped in caves left to starve and they gave them hand grenades to kill themselves. Most citizens didn't know how to operate them and instead beat each other to death following Japanese orders.

Troops in Japan aren't needed, but they are a gift compared to the Japanese soldiers during the Pacific War.

[Ranmaverse]

Well yeah, the constitution was pretty heavily in force as regards the whole "No external Japanese military." They needed some major deterrent there at the time, or at least the political climate mandated a good faith attempt at getting one.



South Korea could waste North Korea in a matter of days. It would be expensive and would suck for everyone, but the only real threat is a potential last minute nuclear attack, but North Korean missile tech is rather dodgy and it's doubtful they have even a handful of warheads.

South Korea could indeed take North Korea.

China may have something to say about it though.

China is totally against American Imperialism, therefore they would love to see the American's leave. China is trying to be a "good guy" (I don't 100% buy it though).

[Libertarian California]

South Korea could indeed take North Korea.

China may have something to say about it though.

China is totally against American Imperialism, therefore they would love to see the American's leave. China is trying to be a "good guy" (I don't 100% buy it though).

Japan and South Korea should unite, and then pummel North Korea. That will scare the shit out of China, especially if they did that without American involvement.

[Ranmaverse]

I agree with your statement that US forces in Japan are no longer needed.

However, the US military forces located on Okinawa are far fairer than the Japanese Army that defended it during WW2. 25 murders is never a good thing, however that was in a span of over 40 years.

During the Battle of Okinawa thousands of Okinawan citizens were trapped in caves left to starve and they gave them hand grenades to kill themselves. Most citizens didn't know how to operate them and instead beat each other to death following Japanese orders.

Troops in Japan aren't needed, but they are a gift compared to the Japanese soldiers during the Pacific War.

That was 67 years ago. Over 1 generation. If you think the Japanese military is still like that, you are less up to date than your grandmother (probably) is.

[The Emerald Dawn]

South Korea could indeed take North Korea.

China may have something to say about it though.

China is totally against American Imperialism, therefore they would love to see the American's leave. China is trying to be a "good guy" (I don't 100% buy it though).

The question is though, if South Korea and Best Korea go to war with each other, will China sit it out? Having an increased, non-PRC friendly government in their sphere of influence isn't automatically palatable to them.

If the US isn't in place as a counter-weight, will the PRC decide they can blitzkrieg Seoul and take both Koreas in one fell swoop? If this happens, wither Japan? It isn't just a lack of fortitude that prevents the Japanese government from telling the US to get out, there are actual political concerns present.

[Ranmaverse]

China is totally against American Imperialism, therefore they would love to see the American's leave. China is trying to be a "good guy" (I don't 100% buy it though).

Japan and South Korea should unite, and then pummel North Korea. That will scare the shit out of China, especially if they did that without American involvement.

Even China is fed up with North Korea acting like a "Spoiled Child" (Chinese foreign affair minister's words!), China even said they'd be okay with Korea united under South Korean government, simply because North Korea gives them a bad name. Even China has had enough of North Korea. North Korea is "Technically" not communism any more, it "Juchen" I think. Which means China does not need to abide by protecting other communist nations.

[Libertarian California]

Japan and South Korea should unite, and then pummel North Korea. That will scare the shit out of China, especially if they did that without American involvement.

Even China is fed up with North Korea acting like a "Spoiled Child" (Chinese foreign affair minister's words!), China even said they'd be okay with Korea united under South Korean government. Even China has had enough of North Korea. North Korea is "Technically" not communism any more, it "Juchen" I think. Which means China does not need to abide by protecting other communist nations.

It's better South Korea/Japan get North Korea before China does.

[Imperial--japan]

China is totally against American Imperialism, therefore they would love to see the American's leave. China is trying to be a "good guy" (I don't 100% buy it though).

The question is though, if South Korea and Best Korea go to war with each other, will China sit it out? Having an increased, non-PRC friendly government in their sphere of influence isn't automatically palatable to them.

If the US isn't in place as a counter-weight, will the PRC decide they can blitzkrieg Seoul and take both Koreas in one fell swoop? If this happens, wither Japan? It isn't just a lack of fortitude that prevents the Japanese government from telling the US to get out, there are actual political concerns present.

Thing is if we aren't welcome by the populace and government then that becomes their problem.

[The Emerald Dawn]

The question is though, if South Korea and Best Korea go to war with each other, will China sit it out? Having an increased, non-PRC friendly government in their sphere of influence isn't automatically palatable to them.

If the US isn't in place as a counter-weight, will the PRC decide they can blitzkrieg Seoul and take both Koreas in one fell swoop? If this happens, wither Japan? It isn't just a lack of fortitude that prevents the Japanese government from telling the US to get out, there are actual political concerns present.

Thing is if we aren't welcome then that becomes their problem.

Which, in turn, becomes our problem. Unless you are proposing not trading with Japan at all, ever again? Or seeing Korean cinema?

[New England and The Maritimes]

Well yeah, the constitution was pretty heavily in force as regards the whole "No external Japanese military." They needed some major deterrent there at the time, or at least the political climate mandated a good faith attempt at getting one.



South Korea could waste North Korea in a matter of days. It would be expensive and would suck for everyone, but the only real threat is a potential last minute nuclear attack, but North Korean missile tech is rather dodgy and it's doubtful they have even a handful of warheads.

South Korea could indeed take North Korea.

China may have something to say about it though.

China has said already that they are quite annoyed with North Korea. Their support in an invasion would be in question. Their support in the event of a North Korean attack, that's basically not going to happen.

[The Emerald Dawn]

South Korea could indeed take North Korea.

China may have something to say about it though.

China has said already that they are quite annoyed with North Korea. Their support in an invasion would be in question. Their support in the event of a North Korean attack, that's basically not going to happen.

Currently, with the US there as a counter-weight. What happens if you remove that counter-weight though? For all of South Korea's prowess, they are not a match for the PRC.

[Orenica]

Gee... I didn't know that interfering in Korea, Iran, Vietnam, Guatemala, Lebanon, Cuba, Panama, Laos, Cambodia, Grenada, El Salvador, Honduras, Nicaragua, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Iraq, Bosnia, Iraq again, Afghanistan, Libya, and giving all the aid to Israel and Africa prevented genocide.

Those interventions have truly made the world a better place. There is no more genocide and every nation is democratic


Also, no. America does not have the power to stop "global war", which won't even happen anyways. Has it occurred to you that America is $16 trillion in debt. Has it occurred to you that America can not simply afford these wars and interventions. Do all the Americans that have died and innocent civilians killed by Americans in these interventions do not matter to you?

If your neighbor next door beat his wife, you wouldn't roll into his house, guns blazing, and end up killing his whole family in your attempt to stop him would you?

Well personally I think that no individual country should intervene in the affairs of another, but rather that international bodies such as the UN should handle that. I think that whilst individual countries may sway the UN in their favour, it is a better way to ensure that the human rights of the civilians in the affected countries are upheld. As for how anyone can decide that genocide is a 'necessary' part of preserving a country's national sovereignty, that is beyond me.

[Libertarian California]

Thing is if we aren't welcome then that becomes their problem.

Which, in turn, becomes our problem. Unless you are proposing not trading with Japan at all, ever again? Or seeing Korean cinema?

Simple: We trade with China

Or, just hear me out... we trade with other 190+ countries remaining.

[Mike the Progressive]

Yes, because they are going to let their economy collapse and their trade to cease just because they are "angry" at us.

Sometimes I get the feeling that some people here think the Chinese leadership is made up of low intelligent people which is not true. The Chinese have been diversifying thus no need to rely on trade with just one nation. An example, CNN news today reported that Chinese and Latin American economic ties have never been so tight. This is a clear example of the Chinese diversification plan.

Strong ties=/=a huge chunk of your exports to one country.

It's not the relations between China and the US, it's the sheer amount of trade that makes the difference.

[Imperial--japan]

Thing is if we aren't welcome then that becomes their problem.

Which, in turn, becomes our problem. Unless you are proposing not trading with Japan at all, ever again? Or seeing Korean cinema?

Not what I'm suggesting. It's just not our deal to stay where we are not welcome unless we are talking about economic shattering Reprucusions.

[The Emerald Dawn]

Which, in turn, becomes our problem. Unless you are proposing not trading with Japan at all, ever again? Or seeing Korean cinema?

Simple: We trade with China

Or, just hear me out... we trade with other 190+ countries remaining.

Hmm, yes. Interesting. Those other 190+ countries that are cranking out the same technology as Japan and South Korea?

And cutting off trade with China is going to be interesting. Tell me, do you like your cell phone?

[Libertarian California]

Simple: We trade with China

Or, just hear me out... we trade with other 190+ countries remaining.

Hmm, yes. Interesting. Those other 190+ countries that are cranking out the same technology as Japan and South Korea?

And cutting off trade with China is going to be interesting. Tell me, do you like your cell phone?

Actually, the #1 tech producing area is right here in California. Even more specific: it is the Silicon Valley. Apple, eBay, Facebook, Yahoo, Intel, Cisco, etc...

The Japanese and South Koreans tech industries didn't innovate, they just copied American products and changed them slightly.

I never said we cut off trade with China. I said we trade with them, like the way we trade with Britain and Canada.

[The Legion of Kane]

Reduction by 90%. Or, alternatively, remove all of the forces. If they perceive them as foreign invaders, they should get out of Japan. Get most out of Japan, leave only a select few.

[Murray land]

Bare minimum we should leave one air and army base.

[Nazerine]

I voted to remove US Forces in Japan, but my reasons may be different than some others. For one Japan really has no threat to its national security today. They are trade partners with China, North Korea has no navy worth mentioning to threaten Japan with and the USSR is no more. In fact the largest national security threat in Japan is likely the US forces that commit crimes and rapes among the native people. No way saying all serviceman are guilty but really, what are they there for.

The OP mentioned that the Japanese Cannot be an aggressor because their constitution forbids it. If only we lived in a world where constitutions enforced themselves. Really there is no Magic in the word 'constitution'. They are only effective as long as the population make sure they are enforced. We in the US have long passed the day where we abided by our own constitution. It is my opinion that the Constitution of the United States has become Federal Toilet Paper. To say whatever they want it to say. But more importantly for Japan is their memory of the second world war that will prevent them from becoming an aggressor. The devastation of their country is still felt today and will, in my mind prevent them from going on another conquest to form another "Empire of the Rising Sun." I am not worried about the Japanese abusing another military machine or being attacked on a scale to where they cannot handle themselves. I believe we have overstayed our welcome.

[The Emerald Dawn]

Hmm, yes. Interesting. Those other 190+ countries that are cranking out the same technology as Japan and South Korea?

And cutting off trade with China is going to be interesting. Tell me, do you like your cell phone?

Actually, the #1 tech producing area is right here in California. Even more specific: it is the Silicon Valley. Apple, eBay, Facebook, Yahoo, Intel, Cisco, etc...

The Japanese and South Koreans tech industries didn't innovate, they just copied American products and changed them slightly.

I never said we cut off trade with China. I said we trade with them, like the way we trade with Britain and Canada.

Sony would like to have a word with you about a lack of innovation. As would Toshiba. Also, the Japanese auto industry.

Also:

Or, just hear me out... we trade with other 190+ countries remaining.

Yes, you did.

[Libertarian California]

Actually, the #1 tech producing area is right here in California. Even more specific: it is the Silicon Valley. Apple, eBay, Facebook, Yahoo, Intel, Cisco, etc...

The Japanese and South Koreans tech industries didn't innovate, they just copied American products and changed them slightly.

I never said we cut off trade with China. I said we trade with them, like the way we trade with Britain and Canada.

Sony would like to have a word with you about a lack of innovation. As would Toshiba. Also, the Japanese auto industry.

Also:

Or, just hear me out... we trade with other 190+ countries remaining.

Yes, you did.

All the products built by Toshiba, Sony, and Toyota were invented in the United States...so...

And China is included in those 190+ countries.

[The Emerald Dawn]

Sony would like to have a word with you about a lack of innovation. As would Toshiba. Also, the Japanese auto industry.

Also:


Yes, you did.

All the products built by Toshiba, Sony, and Toyota were invented in the United States...so...

And China is included in those 190+ countries.

I think that's a...selective interpretation of your statement.

Where they are invented doesn't matter when we're talking about innovation. The act of making something better, smaller, and stronger is just as important as making it first. The automobile wasn't first created in the US, but it was made better. The jet engine wasn't created in England, but it was made better, before being made even better by Germany.

[Isolated China]

We should totally increase U.S. forces in Japan. Cause, you know, its fun watching our country sink further into debt and police areas we don't belong in.
Anyways, we've overstayed our welcome. Really, what the heck is China going to do? Invade Japan? All these people who say we need forces in Japan to stop all this Chinese expansionism that's happening is ridiculous. Are they putting a bunch of unneccessary pressure on other countries? Yeah, I'll cede that. But I mean, the most they'll do is try to take Taiwan and maybe a few islands remotely close to them. Thats it. It's not like they're going to go all Call Of Duty and start a World War 3 and invade everyone's homes and blow their planets up. So, in summary, we should really leave Japan. Sure, keep a military base or two that's in an area where they're liked, have strategic importance, and where they're needed. (More likely with a mixture of two or all three.) But its a little absurd to have military bases all over the world just to have them. Especially on a country as small (land-mass wise) as Japan.