Who was worst US president in the 20th and 21st centuries?

[Edward Richtofen]

wilson needs more votes
he caused ww2 (dont get into a massive argument) by not being more forgiving to germany and by not punishing Austria
i know that britain and france were at versillas but if wilson was more forgiving the weak leaders of britain and france would have bent greatly

[Serrland]

wilson needs more votes
he caused ww2 (dont get into a massive argument) by not being more forgiving to germany and by not punishing Austria
i know that britain and france were at versillas but if wilson was more forgiving the weak leaders of britain and france would have bent greatly

How else could he have punished Austria? It was a broken, destroyed, utterly desiccated state.

[Virana]

wilson needs more votes
he caused ww2 (dont get into a massive argument) by not being more forgiving to germany and by not punishing Austria
i know that britain and france were at versillas but if wilson was more forgiving the weak leaders of britain and france would have bent greatly

Wilson wasn't in favor of punishing Germany; he had a much better view towards Germany than France or Britain did. France was the main proponent of punishing Germany that bad, followed closely by Britain. U.S. hardly cared, and eventually just agreed with the nations that had been its allies for arguably the past 100-150 years.

"weak leaders of britain and france"


Wilson also pushed for the League of Nations, but when he came back to the U.S., Congress refused to ratify it since the homeland was so much more in favor of isolationism than Wilson. Hence why the United States never joined the LoN after being the strongest supporter of its formation.

[Arkinesia]

But we shouldn't treat him like some ultra-progressive visionary who fought for a future where white people and black people could hold hands and frolic together in grassy fields, and we certainly shouldn't treat him like somebody who viewed slavery as a deep moral evil that he desperately fought to eradicate in the name of justice.

Frankly, the reality is that he viewed slaves as worthless meat in the same way that the slave-owning Southerners who hated him did.

So, was he an awful President? Certainly not. Did he emancipate the slaves? He certainly did. Was he some selfless paragon who fought and died for racial equality? No. And we shouldn't make him out to be one. Because he didn't give two shits about any of the slaves he freed, and we're giving him too much credit if we start pretending that he did.

See, you seem to be someone interested in evaluating Lincoln based on what he really was like. But then you ignore his steadfast and lengthy opposition to slavery, the cases where he defended former slaves in court from being enslaved again, and his cordial relations with Frederick Douglass.

Ultimately, though, that just leaves him as one of those people who says “I'm not racist, I'm friends with lots of black people, but they should stop fucking without condoms, being poor, and mugging people.”

[Maurepas]

I want to say George W. Bush, but I had to go Herbert Hoover. As bad as Bush was, Hoover I think left the US in a worse shape than Bush did.

Though, to be fair, that wasn't a result of Hoover's policies, whereas Bush and the GOP largely caused our current problems near single-handedly.

Tough call.

[GCMG]

War is a fearful thing.

Chamberlain felt that appeasement was necessary to maintain the peace and avoiding another war. He felt that the act of appeasement saved “Europe from Armageddon” and “Czechoslovakia from destruction.” This is because he was well aware of what war could do to Europe, remembering the horrors of World War One, as can be told from when he spoke “Does the experience of the Great War and the years that followed it give us reasonable hope that, if some new war started, that would end war anymore than the last one did?” The horrors of battles like the Somme or Passchendaele were surely large in the mind of Chamberlain as he spoke. Chamberlain himself said it was necessary when he said, “When we were convinced…that nothing any longer would keep the Sudetenland within the Czechoslovakian State”. Chamberlain was a politician and perhaps he felt that appeasement was the best way to appeal to, as he said, the, “desire of our two peoples [Germany’s and Britain’s] never to go to war with each other again.”

4 Apr 2011
http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/gcsebitesi ... rev1.shtml
http://tinyurl.com/3vg6guc
Pages 1 to 7
6 Apr 2011
http://tinyurl.com/3vg6guc
Pages 6 to 8
7 Apr 2011
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/historic_f ... ille.shtml
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/people/winston_churchill
http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/wi ... rchill.htm
8 Apr 2011
http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/wi ... rchill.htm
http://www.number10.gov.uk/history-and- ... -churchill
http://www.churchill-society-london.org.uk/munich.html
http://www.churchill-society-london.org ... 9aTxt.html
11 April 2011
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/se ... -world-war
http://www.historyguide.org/europe/munich.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/date ... 115476.stm
http://uk.ask.com/wiki/Konrad_Henlein
13Apr 2011
http://uk.ask.com/wiki/Anthony_Eden
http://uk.ask.com/wiki/Duncan_Sandys
14 Apr 2011
http://www.astorialic.org/images/starjo ... erlain.jpg
http://www.knowledgerush.com/wiki_image ... rlain2.jpg
Collier’s Encyclopedia vol. 5 1980 edition
editor-in-chief Emmanuel Friedman
The New Caxton Encyclopedia vol. 2 1966 edition
The New Caxton Encyclopedia vol. 4 1966 edition
The New Caxton Encyclopedia vol. 10 1966 edition
Churchill: A Study in Failure 1900-1939 published 1981 by Robert Rhodes James
Mr Churchill Speaks Casswell and Company Limited

"There is no greater mistake than to suppose that platitudes, smooth words, and timid policies offer a path to safety."

"How many wars have been averted by patience and good will?"

"An appeaser is one who feeds the crocodile hoping it will eat him last."

"Victory will never be found by taking the line of least resistance."

"[Chamberlain] was given a choice between war and dishonour. He chose dishonour and he will have war anyway."

GW Bush and Reagan tie for the lead, with Nixon, Wilson, Truman, and Teddy Roosevelt all battling for a distant third.

When you put Theodore Roosevelt in the remote realm of any one of these presidents, you know not of what you speak.

There's a reason why Churchill won the War and lost the subsequent election.

[United Kingdom of Poland]

4 Apr 2011
http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/gcsebitesi ... rev1.shtml
http://tinyurl.com/3vg6guc
Pages 1 to 7
6 Apr 2011
http://tinyurl.com/3vg6guc
Pages 6 to 8
7 Apr 2011
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/historic_f ... ille.shtml
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/people/winston_churchill
http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/wi ... rchill.htm
8 Apr 2011
http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/wi ... rchill.htm
http://www.number10.gov.uk/history-and- ... -churchill
http://www.churchill-society-london.org.uk/munich.html
http://www.churchill-society-london.org ... 9aTxt.html
11 April 2011
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/se ... -world-war
http://www.historyguide.org/europe/munich.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/date ... 115476.stm
http://uk.ask.com/wiki/Konrad_Henlein
13Apr 2011
http://uk.ask.com/wiki/Anthony_Eden
http://uk.ask.com/wiki/Duncan_Sandys
14 Apr 2011
http://www.astorialic.org/images/starjo ... erlain.jpg
http://www.knowledgerush.com/wiki_image ... rlain2.jpg
Collier’s Encyclopedia vol. 5 1980 edition
editor-in-chief Emmanuel Friedman
The New Caxton Encyclopedia vol. 2 1966 edition
The New Caxton Encyclopedia vol. 4 1966 edition
The New Caxton Encyclopedia vol. 10 1966 edition
Churchill: A Study in Failure 1900-1939 published 1981 by Robert Rhodes James
Mr Churchill Speaks Casswell and Company Limited

"There is no greater mistake than to suppose that platitudes, smooth words, and timid policies offer a path to safety."

"How many wars have been averted by patience and good will?"

"An appeaser is one who feeds the crocodile hoping it will eat him last."

"Victory will never be found by taking the line of least resistance."

"[Chamberlain] was given a choice between war and dishonour. He chose dishonour and he will have war anyway."


When you put Theodore Roosevelt in the remote realm of any one of these presidents, you know not of what you speak.

There's a reason why Churchill won the War and lost the subsequent election.

wasn't he later reelected though.

[Vetalia]

Though, to be fair, that wasn't a result of Hoover's policies, whereas Bush and the GOP largely caused our current problems near single-handedly.

Tough call.

Well, you also have to give credit where credit is due to the Democrats who played an instrumental role in the same problems, in particular a certain 42nd President of the United States.

[Maurepas]

Though, to be fair, that wasn't a result of Hoover's policies, whereas Bush and the GOP largely caused our current problems near single-handedly.

Tough call.

Well, you also have to give credit where credit is due to the Democrats who played an instrumental role in the same problems, in particular a certain 42nd President of the United States.

Even now, Obama has demonstrably left the country in better condition than when he left it. Better than Clinton? No, not really, not even better than 2004 even, but certainly better than 2008.

It stands to reason that if that trend continues, it'll definitely be better in 2016 than when he took office.

Carter and Johnson are the Dems I would look to for that comparison, in my opinion they demonstrably didn't leave it better than they found it. Though, I don't think in as stark contrast as Bush and Hoover.

Edit: Shit, forty second, I'm an idiot, lol. Well, the same thing applies to Clinton, in fact, I'd rank him among the greatest presidents of the twentieth century, things were left far better in 2000 than they had been in 1992

[The Black Forrest]

See, you seem to be someone interested in evaluating Lincoln based on what he really was like. But then you ignore his steadfast and lengthy opposition to slavery, the cases where he defended former slaves in court from being enslaved again, and his cordial relations with Frederick Douglass.

Ultimately, though, that just leaves him as one of those people who says “I'm not racist, I'm friends with lots of black people, but they should stop fucking without condoms, being poor, and mugging people.”

That's a rather amazing stretch of logic. Make sure you duck when it snaps.

[The Black Forrest]

wilson needs more votes
he caused ww2 (dont get into a massive argument) by not being more forgiving to germany and by not punishing Austria
i know that britain and france were at versillas but if wilson was more forgiving the weak leaders of britain and france would have bent greatly

So? couldn't it be argued if France and Britain were forgiving the same would have happened?

[Vetalia]

Even now, Obama has demonstrably left the country in better condition than when he left it. Better than Clinton? No, not really, not even better than 2004 even, but certainly better than 2008.

It stands to reason that if that trend continues, it'll definitely be better in 2016 than when he took office.

True that. Clinton gets good marks especially because all the bad stuff related to the 1990's expansion occurred after he left office; he got all of the prosperity and none of the consequences by virtue of good timing. Had he, say, been President from 1996-2004 instead his reputation would be much different.

Carter and Johnson are the Dems I would look to for that comparison, in my opinion they demonstrably didn't leave it better than they found it. Though, I don't think in as stark contrast as Bush and Hoover.

Actually, Carter deserves a lot more credit than he gets in history...a number of key energy efficiency policies were implemented in his administration that helped keep oil prices lot for decades and of course he appointed Paul Volcker to head the Fed.

[Maurepas]

Even now, Obama has demonstrably left the country in better condition than when he left it. Better than Clinton? No, not really, not even better than 2004 even, but certainly better than 2008.

It stands to reason that if that trend continues, it'll definitely be better in 2016 than when he took office.

True that. Clinton gets good marks especially because all the bad stuff related to the 1990's expansion occurred after he left office; he got all of the prosperity and none of the consequences by virtue of good timing. Had he, say, been President from 1996-2004 instead his reputation would be much different.

Carter and Johnson are the Dems I would look to for that comparison, in my opinion they demonstrably didn't leave it better than they found it. Though, I don't think in as stark contrast as Bush and Hoover.

Actually, Carter deserves a lot more credit than he gets in history...a number of key energy efficiency policies were implemented in his administration that helped keep oil prices lot for decades and of course he appointed Paul Volcker to head the Fed.

Well, I'm not saying bad things didn't occur for Clinton or that good things didn't happen with Carter. I'm just using a base measurement of how bad the country was beforehand and how good it was when the President left it. Carter doesn't get good marks on that scale I'm afraid.

[The Rich Port]

Reagan, Bush Jr., Ulysses S. Grant, Hoover, Nixon...

I don't know which one is the worst, but I do know they're all Republicans.

Ah, but seriously, I'm sure there's plenty of bad Democrat presidents...

I can't think of one NOW, but I'm sure there are.

[Vetalia]

Ultimately, though, that just leaves him as one of those people who says “I'm not racist, I'm friends with lots of black people, but they should stop fucking without condoms, being poor, and mugging people.”

Good luck being elected in 1860 by proclaiming you're anti-slavery and pro-equal treatment under the law for blacks.

[Vetalia]

Well, I'm not saying bad things didn't occur for Clinton or that good things didn't happen with Carter. I'm just using a base measurement of how bad the country was beforehand and how good it was when the President left it. Carter doesn't get good marks on that scale I'm afraid.

True, people do vote based upon how they're doing personally...I can't blame them, I do as well. I think where Clinton dodges the bullet, though, is all of the bad stuff related to that period didn't occur until after he was out of office. The same can be said for Reagan, though.

[Union of Democratic Socialists]

Warren G. Harding was the worst President because he gave his friends high ranking jobs and they sold the Goverenments oil fields. Which happens to be illegal.

[GCMG]

There's a reason why Churchill won the War and lost the subsequent election.

wasn't he later reelected though.

1950-54, I believe. Apologies, 1951-1955.

And it wasn't, technically, re-election. The first time around he was elected as an MP and then, by mutual agreement, assumed the role of PM after Chamberlain stepped down. The thing to remember is that the UK uses a FPP system based on constituencies and the party with the most MPs forms the government. Basically, there is no election for the PM, the PM just happens.

With regards to the quotes that Bythyrona gave here's Churchill again, "History is written by the victors."

[Union of Democratic Socialists]

wilson needs more votes
he caused ww2 (dont get into a massive argument) by not being more forgiving to germany and by not punishing Austria
i know that britain and france were at versillas but if wilson was more forgiving the weak leaders of britain and france would have bent greatly

If he would have admitted that Serbia started the mess than Germany wouldn't have started WWII. All of the Allies caused all conflicts after WWI, altough it was mostly the fault of Britian, France, and Serbia (for starting the mess).

[GCMG]

wilson needs more votes
he caused ww2 (dont get into a massive argument) by not being more forgiving to germany and by not punishing Austria
i know that britain and france were at versillas but if wilson was more forgiving the weak leaders of britain and france would have bent greatly

If he would have admitted that Serbia started the mess than Germany wouldn't have started WWII. All of the Allies caused all conflicts after WWI, altough it was mostly the fault of Britian, France, and Serbia (for starting the mess).

Serbia? WWII? Is this taking the start of WWI as being the ultimate cause of WWII?

[GCMG]

wilson needs more votes
he caused ww2 (dont get into a massive argument) by not being more forgiving to germany and by not punishing Austria
i know that britain and france were at versillas but if wilson was more forgiving the weak leaders of britain and france would have bent greatly

So? couldn't it be argued if France and Britain were forgiving the same would have happened?

The Treaty of Versailles could have been nice or it could have been mean. Nice in mean's clothing like it was was never going to work. And the reason for that is because the tempering influence was undermined by its own side.

[Luziyca]

One word: Reganomics

I still fail to see how GWB and Reagan are worse than the likes of Harding, Hoover, and Wilson. Is it just because they're more recent, maybe?

Reagan was the one who began imploding the USA, George W. Bush attempted to colonize Iraq and colonized Afghanistan. Their purposes may be noble, but it was good that Obama withdrew the soldiers from Iraq. Now, he must take them out of Afghanistan, after it becomes free. No, not American free, I mean Canadian freedom.

[North Calaveras]

I still fail to see how GWB and Reagan are worse than the likes of Harding, Hoover, and Wilson. Is it just because they're more recent, maybe?

Reagan was the one who began imploding the USA, George W. Bush attempted to colonize Iraq and colonized Afghanistan. Their purposes may be noble, but it was good that Obama withdrew the soldiers from Iraq. Now, he must take them out of Afghanistan, after it becomes free. No, not American free, I mean Canadian freedom.

What?

[Nidaria]

wilson needs more votes
he caused ww2 (dont get into a massive argument) by not being more forgiving to germany and by not punishing Austria
i know that britain and france were at versillas but if wilson was more forgiving the weak leaders of britain and france would have bent greatly

Wilson was a bad president, but he only went along with England and France in severely punishing Germany in exchange for getting his way in self-determination (which destroyed the Austrian Empire) and the League of Nations.

[Coccygia]

Worst President of the 21st Century: No contest. Disappointing and incompetent as Obama may be, G. W. Bush is easily far worse and is at least one of the ten worst Presidents.
Of the 20th: Oh, let's give it to Nixon. Compared to some (or all) of the recent occupants of the White House, he's really not so bad, but her had to resign. His place in history is secure.
Of both: Dubya.