The Divide between the Poor and the Rich

[Miss Defied]

The problem is not inequality of wealth, but inequality of opportunity. The two are somewhat connected, of course, but in principle if institutions don't favour those who are already wealthy (eg China, Greece and to a lesser degree the United States) then some people becoming very rich is a symptom of innovation and having provided some value to other people.

Mind you, policies that blindly favour those who are wealthy already generally aren't actually that fantastic at actually making the economy or society as a whole better off. That's a myth propagated by those who have the most to gain from such policies, and to which the GOP latched on for some reason.

Oh and by the way, while that's going on Glass-Steagal is going back into full effect with a few updates so this kind of crap doesn't happen again.

Not again. Bank bashing can be done in a sophisticated way. Talking about Glass-Steagall just reveals ignorance of the issue at hand.

I'm not opposed to 401ks, but unless you dedicate every minute of your free time to figuring the market out they're not a good alternative to the pension. Maybe as a half/half deal or an option, but not the standard.

There are products out there that try and take the effort and time out for the individual investor. Of course there are risks, but it still seems far more sustainable than the systems they have in Europe.

You just had to show up with your knowledgable insights and ruin a perfectly unreasonable thread.

[Mavorpen]

Let's just go extinct. There, problem solved.

[Neu Leonstein]

You just had to show up with your knowledgable insights and ruin a perfectly unreasonable thread.

Well... here's a secessionist: http://blog.al.com/live/2012/11/alabama ... _work.html

Secession, he said, would allow Alabama and other states to stop entitlement programs.

“The people who want those handouts, it’ll force them to move to a different state,” he said. “It will consolidate working people and that’s how we turn things around.”

Belcher, who is white, said race was not a factor in his support of secession.

“It’s economics -– just that simple,” he said. “I’m working poor. And I work -– I’ve never taken a dime from the government. I’ll starve before I take a handout. That’s what being a true American is all about.”

Belcher blamed the government for shutting down his former business. Belcher said his Euro Details car wash, which featured topless women, was successful for a decade on Halls Mill Road in Mobile. But he said he was arrested and charged with obscenity by city officials in 2001.

“The government ripped my business away, and now they’re choking America to death with rules and regulations,” he said.

[Big Jim P]

If the poor got richer and their living standard increased, even if the rich got richer, would that be okay with you?

OR

Would you rather the difference between the poor and the rich was less, even if the living standard of the poor didn't increase?

Communism: We can't all be rich, so we will all be poor.

[Mavorpen]

If the poor got richer and their living standard increased, even if the rich got richer, would that be okay with you?

OR

Would you rather the difference between the poor and the rich was less, even if the living standard of the poor didn't increase?

Communism: We can't all be rich, so we will all be poor.

It's hilarious how contradictory that statement is.

[Big Jim P]

Communism: We can't all be rich, so we will all be poor.

It's hilarious how contradictory that statement is.

Explain? Communism bring everyone down to the lowest common denominator. Almost as bad as the bastard offspring call American pop-culture.

[Mavorpen]

It's hilarious how contradictory that statement is.

Explain? Communism bring everyone down to the lowest common denominator. Almost as bad as the bastard offspring call American pop-culture.

If you can't all be rich, then by using simple logic, it's impossible to all be poor.

[Big Jim P]

Explain? Communism bring everyone down to the lowest common denominator. Almost as bad as the bastard offspring call American pop-culture.

If you can't all be rich, then by using simple logic, it's impossible to all be poor.

I see your logic.

Edit: We can all be the same then?

[Mavorpen]

If you can't all be rich, then by using simple logic, it's impossible to all be poor.

I see your logic.

Thought I'd change it up from trying to explain to people what communism is.

[Big Jim P]

I see your logic.

Thought I'd change it up from trying to explain to people what communism is.

Just about every "ism" is about surrendering the self to some outside authority.

[Mavorpen]

Thought I'd change it up from trying to explain to people what communism is.

Just about every "ism" is about surrendering the self to some outside authority.

...Which occurs regardless anyway.

[Big Jim P]

Just about every "ism" is about surrendering the self to some outside authority.

...Which occurs regardless anyway.

True, but on can rebel.

[Mavorpen]

...Which occurs regardless anyway.

True, but on can rebel.

Only to be subjected to outside authority once more.

[Big Jim P]

True, but on can rebel.

Only to be subjected to outside authority once more.

Up until one rebels to his death.

[Mavorpen]

Only to be subjected to outside authority once more.

Up until one rebels to his death.

Death is the ultimate outside authority.

[Saint Jade IV]

I'd rather see the gap of opportunity between those of wealthy backgrounds and those of poorer backgrounds diminish. I don't have a problem with the uber-wealthy having and enjoying that money, nor do I necessarily see it as their responsibility to give charitably or whatever. But its when that is taken one step further and the opportunity for poorer people to move up is unequal, that I see problematic.

As a society it almost seems that we are moving backwards, rather than forwards in terms of social and economic mobility. And you have governments bending to speed that up, in the interest of big business.

I think school students, especially in poorer areas or from more disadvantaged backgrounds, need greater opportunities to be educated about financial planning, and job seeking, as well as a more concerted approach to detailing the benefits of education.

[Norstal]

If the poor got richer and their living standard increased, even if the rich got richer, would that be okay with you?

OR

Would you rather the difference between the poor and the rich was less, even if the living standard of the poor didn't increase?

We can have both. It has happened in the past.

[Libertarian California]

In practice, "socialism" has made everyone equal...equally poor that is.



Oh, by God it is good to be back!

[Gauthier]

Thought I'd change it up from trying to explain to people what communism is.

Just about every "ism" is about surrendering the self to some outside authority.

Including Satanism?

[Genivaria]

The Rich and Poor can't BOTH get richer, there's only a finite amount of money to go around.

[Mavorpen]

In practice, "socialism" has made everyone equal...equally poor that is.



Oh, by God it is good to be back!

I agree. I missed you and your inability to correctly identify socialism.

[Norstal]

The Rich and Poor can't BOTH get richer, there's only a finite amount of money to go around.

That's up to the Federal Reserve to decide.

[Genivaria]

The Rich and Poor can't BOTH get richer, there's only a finite amount of money to go around.

That's up to the Federal Reserve to decide.

I don't like where this is going...

[Risottia]

If the poor got richer and their living standard increased, even if the rich got richer, would that be okay with you?
OR
Would you rather the difference between the poor and the rich was less, even if the living standard of the poor didn't increase?

Nice question, somewhat of a false dichotomy though.

I'm interested in having the poor increase their living standards (well... actually it would be more accurate to say that I want the workers to get all the mehrwert they produced, which is different, but would take us off-topic...). I don't harbour jealousy towards the rich.

Then again, there's the problem that, the higher the divide between rich and poor is, the stronger the accumulation on the richer side gets, which, in a world with limited resources (as it is), is going to make the poorer classes even more destitute.

Right now, I'd be happy in attaining a wealth distribution and a welfare model similar to the Danish ones.

[Occupied Deutschland]

The Rich and Poor can't BOTH get richer, there's only a finite amount of money to go around.

...?
Compare & Contrast.
Or were you not being serious? I can't tell over this bizarre tube-infested internet thingy.