Woman dies in Ireland for want of an abortion

[Dyakovo]

Yes... Let's get into the discussion of how we should forcibly remove someone's right to procreate...

I'm wondering how we're going to create this world Zweite Alaje envisions, where there are no risks of conception.

Mandatory sterilization at birth.

[Samuraikoku]

Sex = for reproduction
Driving = for transportation

It is a difference in implied purpose. Sex is/can be pleasureable, but that isn't its inherent purpose. You can crash if you drive, but it isn't for crashing, its to get you from one location to the other.

Racing. Your argument is invalid.

[Esternial]

So, since the natural consequence of leaping from an airplane is death by sudden stoppage, we shouldn't take action to treat injured skydivers?

If the parachute fails, it's their fault, and they should live with the consequences (or not, as the case may be).

That's the best analogy I've seen so far.

Then again, most I've seen so far were pretty bad.

[Galloism]

Sex doesn't imply a pregnancy.

SAFE SEX is to SAFE DRIVING as USING A CONDOM is to NOT DRIVING WHILE BLINDFOLDED.

Sex = for reproduction
Driving = for transportation

It is a difference in implied purpose. Sex is/can be pleasureable, but that isn't its inherent purpose. You can crash if you drive, but it isn't for crashing, its to get you from one location to the other.

Sex is only for reproduction if the couple decides to reproduce.

Otherwise, it's for pleasure.

I've flown a plane many times. While some would say it was for transportation, I flew for pleasure. Thus, flying, in that case, is for pleasure.

Just like sex.

[Des-Bal]

Yes.
Well ... when you do the categorical imperative test, you will be making guesses about consequences? Logical and practical
So the distinction is not as hard as you say
But regardless,, that does no bother me
What I think shows both systems to be useful is when they
1) Both endorse something like education for girls
OR come unstack when they contradict each other on something such as
2) freedom of religion and education of girls?
This clearly shows that both systems are useful but neither is 100% right? Or completely adequate.
I believe that a future ethics will combine these approaches and the way to do that? Levinas seems to me to have some important insights?

The entire premise of the categorical imperative is that you CANNOT consider consequences. The entire premise of utilitarianism is that you should ONLY consider the consequences. You can't combine those ideas.

[Grave_n_idle]

Sex doesn't imply a pregnancy.

SAFE SEX is to SAFE DRIVING as USING A CONDOM is to NOT DRIVING WHILE BLINDFOLDED.

Sex = for reproduction.

Not only 'no', but 'really, really no'.

Sex with contraception is absolutely not about reproduction - by definition. By DESIGN.

Anal sex. Not about reproduction. Oral sex. Not about reproduction. Manual stimulation. Not about reproduction.

Sex with your partner to express your love, not about reproduction.

Sex with your partner because one of you needs the comfort (or both of you), not about reproduction.

Sex... just because you're horny, not about reproduction.

Sex with a football team, just for the thrill, not about reproduction.

Sex with your same-sex lover, not about reproduction.



Almost NONE of the sex humans engage in is about reproduction.

[Grave_n_idle]

I'm wondering how we're going to create this world Zweite Alaje envisions, where there are no risks of conception.

Mandatory sterilization at birth.

That and the Judge Death "The crime is life, the sentence is death" scenario are the only ways to be certain.

*shrugs*

[Zweite Alaje]

Typical of pro-choicers and liberals, if it doesn't agree with the Liberal agenda, it can't be an actual opinion it has to be a joke.

How is it dumb? I'm saying that people who can't afford to have certain things shouldn't risk getting them...

What do you suggest, mandatory sterilisation?

(I'd actually agree with you on that one, but surprisingly few people are willing to go the whole hog).

Meh, I don't support sterilization as it could be used as a political tool. Doing that based on economic status isn't a good idea, people can change their socio-economic position.

[Martean]

Yeahhh! lets abort! it's fun!

No. That's not what women think, it's a trauma for them too, so at least let her do what she wants.

[Torcularis Septentrionalis]

Sex doesn't imply a pregnancy.

SAFE SEX is to SAFE DRIVING as USING A CONDOM is to NOT DRIVING WHILE BLINDFOLDED.

Sex = for reproduction
Driving = for transportation

It is a difference in implied purpose. Sex is/can be pleasureable, but that isn't its inherent purpose. You can crash if you drive, but it isn't for crashing, its to get you from one location to the other.

"purpose" is nonsense.
Sex is just as much not for procreation as it is for procreation. It's all what you want out of it.
If you want to drive, you can either drive crazy, or you can drive safe. Even if you drive crazy, you may not wreck. Even if you drive safe, you may still wreck.
If you want to have sex, you can either go bareback, or you can use protection. Even if you go bareback, you might not get pregnant/an STI/STD. Even if you use protection, you may still get pregnant/an STI/STD.
Should we not give medication to people who have HIV, either? Ban drivers from the hospital! Stop the sales of condoms! Kill doctors who prescribe birth control! Imprison people who have anal sex!

[Demara]

Sex with a football team, just for the thrill, not about reproduction.

I don't know...I find that when I have sex with a football team, it's only for the purpose of reproduction. Basically, I'm not sure how you have done it in the past, but I think you did it incorrectly.

[Grimlundt]

Sex doesn't imply a pregnancy.

SAFE SEX is to SAFE DRIVING as USING A CONDOM is to NOT DRIVING WHILE BLINDFOLDED.

Sex = for reproduction
Driving = for transportation

It is a difference in implied purpose. Sex is/can be pleasureable, but that isn't its inherent purpose. You can crash if you drive, but it isn't for crashing, its to get you from one location to the other.

naturalistic fallacy --
You impute a purpose to sex
and then make that purpose into a moral imperative
Your argument is fallacious and illogical
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IgfdE8Cueg
Watch this video and try to understand why your argument is fallacious, please

[Grave_n_idle]

What do you suggest, mandatory sterilisation?

(I'd actually agree with you on that one, but surprisingly few people are willing to go the whole hog).

Meh, I don't support sterilization as it could be used as a political tool. Doing that based on economic status isn't a good idea, people can change their socio-economic position.

Are you under the impression that the whole procreation paradigm is not used as a political tool?

[Mavorpen]

Sex = for reproduction
Driving = for transportation

It is a difference in implied purpose. Sex is/can be pleasureable, but that isn't its inherent purpose. You can crash if you drive, but it isn't for crashing, its to get you from one location to the other.

Sex isn't for reproduction alone, especially in humans.

[Grave_n_idle]

Sex with a football team, just for the thrill, not about reproduction.

I don't know...I find that when I have sex with a football team, it's only for the purpose of reproduction. Basically, I'm not sure how you have done it in the past, but I think you did it incorrectly.

Maybe. Maybe I should have picked a women's team.

[Zweite Alaje]

Sex = for reproduction
Driving = for transportation

It is a difference in implied purpose. Sex is/can be pleasureable, but that isn't its inherent purpose. You can crash if you drive, but it isn't for crashing, its to get you from one location to the other.

Racing. Your argument is invalid.

Racing is still an effort to get to one place to another, the only difference is it's a sport.

[Torcularis Septentrionalis]

Yeahhh! lets abort! it's fun!

No. That's not what women think, it's a trauma for them too, so at least let her do what she wants.

The first sentence, I thought you were going to go downhill really fast.
But nope, you pulled it out and said something not stupid. Congrats!
(also, hiuk hiuk hiuk, "pulled it out.")

[Grave_n_idle]

Yeahhh! lets abort! it's fun!

No. That's not what women think, it's a trauma for them too, so at least let her do what she wants.

I agree with the sentiment, but let me just throw in the consideration that it's often NOT about what she wants. It's more likely to be about what she feels she has to do.

[Torcularis Septentrionalis]

Sex with a football team, just for the thrill, not about reproduction.

I don't know...I find that when I have sex with a football team, it's only for the purpose of reproduction. Basically, I'm not sure how you have done it in the past, but I think you did it incorrectly.

Fuck... I knew the condom didn't go there...

[Grave_n_idle]

Racing. Your argument is invalid.

Racing is still an effort to get to one place to another, the only difference is it's a sport.

So provided you treat sex as a sport, all options are on the table?

[Torcularis Septentrionalis]

Racing is still an effort to get to one place to another, the only difference is it's a sport.

So provided you treat sex as a sport, all options are on the table?

Yes! On the table! A great place!




okay. I'm going to go play a rousing game of Sex.

[Grave_n_idle]

I don't know...I find that when I have sex with a football team, it's only for the purpose of reproduction. Basically, I'm not sure how you have done it in the past, but I think you did it incorrectly.

Fuck... I knew the condom didn't go there...

Looking back, it suddenly being harder to breathe should have been an indicator.

[Demara]

Maybe. Maybe I should have picked a women's team.

I imagine so. For me that would have removed the possibility of reproduction, so I don't think that would have been helpful on my end. Of course, we've already established that I did this correctly, so that's not at issue. Do it correctly next time (there's always a "next time", after all)!

[Torcularis Septentrionalis]

Fuck... I knew the condom didn't go there...

Looking back, it suddenly being harder to breathe should have been an indicator.

Also, the lube taste takes hours to go away...

[Grave_n_idle]

So provided you treat sex as a sport, all options are on the table?

Yes! On the table! A great place!




okay. I'm going to go play a rousing game of Sex.

You are? Just... you?

Okay, got to add that to the list of why sex isn't all about reproduction. With the exception of one sketchy story that's more than twenty centuries old and has never been repeated, sex with yourself almost never leads to babies.