Woman dies in Ireland for want of an abortion

[Torcularis Septentrionalis]

I know, right? How dare they engage in leisure activities, or have relationships, when they should be working?!

If you're in a bad situation you haven't time for "leisure". Not to mention if you're broke you shouldn't be taking risky chances like having sex which causes having children. Of course though, then the couples want to bitch and complain about being pregnant and want abortions to cure their irresponsiblity.

Having an abortion when you don't want to continue pregnancy and can't afford it is, actually, responsible. We have a right to have sex. We should not be punished for it.

[Grave_n_idle]

And because they did, they should simply have let it ruin their financial situation and lives in general by having a child they didn't want and couldn't adequately provide for

Once again, if they were not financially secure (or did not want a child at the time), they should not have engaged in sexual intercourse.

Oh, I like this game!

My turn, now.

Um. Okay, got it.

People who make judgements about what other people should do, should not have sexual intercourse.



Oh, this game's fun!

[Des-Bal]

That's right. They contradict in some cases.
That's often problematic.
I have never felt that either system were really adequate.
They are just the best systems we have as yet.
And I think the principles of benevolence (utility) and respect (rights) are fundamental to future ethics we might develop if we can get past this current impasse?

They don't contradict in some cases they are fundamentally two different beasts. The only thing salvagable from utilitarianism is "try to do good things" and the categorical imperative is a complete wash, there's nothing usable in it.

[Zweite Alaje]

Typical of pro-choicers and liberals, if it doesn't agree with the Liberal agenda, it can't be an actual opinion it has to be a joke.

How is it dumb? I'm saying that people who can't afford to have certain things shouldn't risk getting them, it's like a guy buying a car that stretches his budget to the brink. People should avoid actions that comprimise their financial integrity, it's the smart and responsible thing to do, especially if it involves the lives of others.

If you broke bastards are brave enough to fuck when they know they're penniless, than they should be held accountable for the consequences of their actions. If a pregnancy results from their intercourse than they should be obliged to bring it into this world.

Like how if your brave enough to drive you're required to not wear a seatbelt and remove the airbags from your car.

Logical fallacy.

Sex leads to pregnancy as a natural process, not all the time, but it is a valid natural progression. Driving doesn't imply a crash.

[Demara]

If you're in a bad situation you haven't time for "leisure". Not to mention if you're broke you shouldn't be taking risky chances like having sex which causes having children.

I'm not exactly sure you understand how many of the global poor (and, indeed, everybody else, too) think...(linking an article since you may not possess the book).

[Torcularis Septentrionalis]

If you broke bastards are brave enough to fuck when they know they're penniless, than they should be held accountable for the consequences of their actions. If a pregnancy results from their intercourse than they should be obliged to bring it into this world.

Rape. Failed contraception. Your argument is invalid.

It was her fault for not hiring 10 female body guards;
OR
She shouldn't be walking outside at night!!!
OR
She is a slut, she wanted to have sex and now she's just yelled rape because she's regretting her slutiness.

And also...

Contraception doesn't work so you should only have sex if you're TRYING to make babbies

[Grave_n_idle]

If you're in a bad situation you haven't time for "leisure". Not to mention if you're broke you shouldn't be taking risky chances like having sex which causes having children. Of course though, then the couples want to bitch and complain about being pregnant and want abortions to cure their irresponsiblity.

Having an abortion when you don't want to continue pregnancy and can't afford it is, actually, responsible.

This.

Making responsible decisions does NOT mean 'making decisions the pro-life platform feels comfortable with'.

[Mavorpen]

Logical fallacy.

Sex leads to pregnancy as a natural process, not all the time, but it is a valid natural progression. Driving doesn't imply a crash.

Which logical fallacy is it?

[Torcularis Septentrionalis]

Like how if your brave enough to drive you're required to not wear a seatbelt and remove the airbags from your car.

Logical fallacy.

Sex leads to pregnancy as a natural process, not all the time, but it is a valid natural progression. Driving doesn't imply a crash.

Sex doesn't imply a pregnancy.

SAFE SEX is to SAFE DRIVING as USING A CONDOM is to NOT DRIVING WHILE BLINDFOLDED.

[Samuraikoku]

Logical fallacy.

Sex leads to pregnancy as a natural process, not all the time, but it is a valid natural progression. Driving doesn't imply a crash.

Contraception. Invalid argument.

[Grave_n_idle]

Like how if your brave enough to drive you're required to not wear a seatbelt and remove the airbags from your car.

Logical fallacy.

Sex leads to pregnancy as a natural process, not all the time, but it is a valid natural progression. Driving doesn't imply a crash.

Most sex does not lead to pregnancy.

Hell, I can't even be absolutely certain 'most sex' involves vaginas.

Sex leading to pregnancy and driving leading to automobile accidents... they're not that dissimilar after all.

[Des-Bal]

Logical fallacy.

Sex leads to pregnancy as a natural process, not all the time, but it is a valid natural progression. Driving doesn't imply a crash.

Pregnancy is an unintended aspect of recreational sex. Crashing is an unintended aspect of recreational driving.

You make the choice to do something with risks then you have to face the consequences even though you could easily mitigate or avoid those consequences altogether, that's what your saying.

[Grave_n_idle]

If you broke bastards are brave enough to fuck when they know they're penniless, than they should be held accountable for the consequences of their actions. If a pregnancy results from their intercourse than they should be obliged to bring it into this world.

Rape. Failed contraception. Your argument is invalid.

Silly. If it was legitimate rape, the woman's body would shut it down anyway.

lern2science.

[Des-Bal]

]
Sex doesn't imply a pregnancy.

SAFE SEX is to SAFE DRIVING as USING A CONDOM is to NOT DRIVING WHILE BLINDFOLDED.

I was going to go into an extended metaphor where the condom is a seatbelt and the airbag is an abortion but that was confusing.

[Samuraikoku]

Silly. If it was legitimate rape, the woman's body would shut it down anyway.

lern2science.

When your own party tells you "you dun goof'd", it's not a good idea to continue to run.

lern2politics.

[Grave_n_idle]

This is the dumbest argument I've heard in a while. Very, very terrible job of presenting any real position. Seems like a bunch of noises meant to communicate the simple message of "Look at how controversial I am."

Typical of pro-choicers and liberals, if it doesn't agree with the Liberal agenda, it can't be an actual opinion it has to be a joke.

How is it dumb? I'm saying that people who can't afford to have certain things shouldn't risk getting them...

What do you suggest, mandatory sterilisation?

(I'd actually agree with you on that one, but surprisingly few people are willing to go the whole hog).

[Torcularis Septentrionalis]

Logical fallacy.

Sex leads to pregnancy as a natural process, not all the time, but it is a valid natural progression. Driving doesn't imply a crash.

Pregnancy is an unintended aspect of recreational sex. Crashing is an unintended aspect of recreational driving.

You make the choice to do something with risks then you have to face the consequences even though you could easily mitigate or avoid those consequences altogether, that's what your saying.

Therefore people in car accidents are banned from hospitals.

[Grimlundt]

That's right. They contradict in some cases.
That's often problematic.
I have never felt that either system were really adequate.
They are just the best systems we have as yet.
And I think the principles of benevolence (utility) and respect (rights) are fundamental to future ethics we might develop if we can get past this current impasse?

They don't contradict in some cases they are fundamentally two different beasts. The only thing salvagable from utilitarianism is "try to do good things" and the categorical imperative is a complete wash, there's nothing usable in it.

Yes.
Well ... when you do the categorical imperative test, you will be making guesses about consequences? Logical and practical
So the distinction is not as hard as you say
But regardless,, that does no bother me
What I think shows both systems to be useful is when they
1) Both endorse something like education for girls
OR come unstack when they contradict each other on something such as
2) freedom of religion and education of girls?
This clearly shows that both systems are useful but neither is 100% right? Or completely adequate.
I believe that a future ethics will combine these approaches and the way to do that? Levinas seems to me to have some important insights?

[Torcularis Septentrionalis]

Typical of pro-choicers and liberals, if it doesn't agree with the Liberal agenda, it can't be an actual opinion it has to be a joke.

How is it dumb? I'm saying that people who can't afford to have certain things shouldn't risk getting them...

What do you suggest, mandatory sterilisation?

(I'd actually agree with you on that one, but surprisingly few people are willing to go the whole hog).

Yes... Let's get into the discussion of how we should forcibly remove someone's right to procreate...

[Grave_n_idle]

Pregnancy is an unintended aspect of recreational sex. Crashing is an unintended aspect of recreational driving.

You make the choice to do something with risks then you have to face the consequences even though you could easily mitigate or avoid those consequences altogether, that's what your saying.

Therefore people in car accidents are banned from hospitals.

If they didn't want to die wrapped around a lamppost, they shouldn't have wantonly gone for a drive.

[Galloism]

So, since the natural consequence of leaping from an airplane is death by sudden stoppage, we shouldn't take action to treat injured skydivers?

If the parachute fails, it's their fault, and they should live with the consequences (or not, as the case may be).

[Esternial]

Contraception doesn't work so you should only have sex if you're TRYING to make babbies

Yeah, good luck with that

[Zweite Alaje]

Logical fallacy.

Sex leads to pregnancy as a natural process, not all the time, but it is a valid natural progression. Driving doesn't imply a crash.

Sex doesn't imply a pregnancy.

SAFE SEX is to SAFE DRIVING as USING A CONDOM is to NOT DRIVING WHILE BLINDFOLDED.

Sex = for reproduction
Driving = for transportation

It is a difference in implied purpose. Sex is/can be pleasureable, but that isn't its inherent purpose. You can crash if you drive, but it isn't for crashing, its to get you from one location to the other.

[Grave_n_idle]

What do you suggest, mandatory sterilisation?

(I'd actually agree with you on that one, but surprisingly few people are willing to go the whole hog).

Yes... Let's get into the discussion of how we should forcibly remove someone's right to procreate...

I'm wondering how we're going to create this world Zweite Alaje envisions, where there are no risks of conception.

[Torcularis Septentrionalis]

Therefore people in car accidents are banned from hospitals.

If they didn't want to die wrapped around a lamppost, they shouldn't have wantonly gone for a drive.

You should only drive a car if you want to die.
You should only cook if you want a housefire.
You should only eat if you want to choke.