Woman dies in Ireland for want of an abortion

[Mavorpen]

The title was a big spoiler.

I'm not surprised that it happened, just that it happened so fast.

It can also be kinky.

Very, very kinky.

[Zottistan]

It enters her womb against her will, she's not resposnible for it.

It enters her womb against its will, too. At least in the woman's case she can (Assuming she learns she's pregnant before the 23rd week) kick it out. The fetus doesn't exactly get that choice.

Beside the point. If I accidentally run somebody over, I've still run somebody over. If a zygote doesn't have the choice to violate a woman's bodily integrity against her will, it can still do it, and a woman has a right to undo anything that was done.

[Nidaria]

Should the life of a child be ended against his will?

[Samuraikoku]

I've already stated, and whilst you were here, that rape is a wholly different subject. As for failed contraception, I would generally support a woman's right to an early-term abortion.

So you're contradicting yourself.

But abortion, as a form of contraception, which has been argued here as completely legitimate, is just a hideous show of our society's depravity. Of course, I'm not blind to external factors; a lot has contributed to the current society we will in that both, contradictorily, glorifies and demonises promiscuity so as to endorse something that comes close to the feminist described rape culture.

It is completely legitimate, and the hideous show happens on the part of "society's depravity" condemners, who for once cannot leave well enough alone for respect of women's rights.

[Samuraikoku]

Should the life of a child be ended against his will?

A fetus is not a child. Try again.

[Mavorpen]

Should the life of a child be ended against his will?

A fetus is not a child.

[Furious Grandmothers]

It enters her womb against her will, she's not resposnible for it.

It enters her womb against its will, too. At least in the woman's case she can (Assuming she learns she's pregnant before the 23rd week) kick it out. The fetus doesn't exactly get that choice.

It has a will now? And it deserves to choose?

[Dyakovo]

You need to update your sarcasm detection software.

In what part of the sentence "You want us to be godless commies?" is any sarcasm shown?

All of it.

[Dyakovo]

The fetus should have planned better.

Unless you're being sarcastic (you never can tell on the internet), I'm going to assume you're trying to draw some equivalence between the pro-Life demand for women that don't want babies to plan against pregnancies and the, you believe to be equally, ridiculous argument that a foetus should plan against invading a woman's body.

The difference is; a woman can plan against it and, in modern times, it really doesn't take much, but a foetus cannot.

And in an overwhelming majority of cases where an abortion is sought it has been planned for.

[Dyakovo]

Should the life of a child be ended against his will?

There is no child.

[Neo Art]

EDIT: misclick, wrong thread, sorry.

[Mavorpen]

snip

Wrong thread.

[Xeng He]

Beside the point. If I accidentally run somebody over, I've still run somebody over. If a zygote fetus doesn't have the choice to violate a woman's bodily integrity against her will, it can still do it, and a woman has a right to undo anything that was done.

Making sure we don't switch this back to the 4-week example so some idiot will pull the pictures argument again...


Anyhow, this point goes both ways. Even if a woman didn't choose to put the fetus in her womb, she did so. And again, in her case she could've undone the accident without causing any problems to herself.

[Risottia]

I'm under no moral obligation, and shouldn't be under a legal one.

In Italy, and in most other European countries, you are under the legal obligation to provide help to a person whose life is in danger.

[Risottia]

Should the life of a child be ended against his will?

There is no child.

And there is no will, by the way.

[New England and The Maritimes]

If we want to advance, we need to can this "YOU CAN'T HAVE MEDICINE BECAUSE I AM A *insert religion here*!" attitude, whether that's by education or by destroying religion forcibly, we'll have to wait and see. It's disgusting to me to see that someone's fantasy life is causing real pain to others. We're a planet of indirect serial killers, projecting our fantasies of what "should" be onto reality and damn the consequences.

[Risottia]

...I've already stated, and whilst you were here, that rape is a wholly different subject. As for failed contraception, I would generally support a woman's right to an early-term abortion.
But abortion, as a form of contraception, ...

You know, people are generally allowed to change their mind.

Btw, I don't think the average woman is so keen on undergoing an abortion - so abortion isn't to be regarded as a form of contraception.
Also because if the woman is pregnant, it's too late for contraception. Maybe you meant "birth control".

[Xeng He]

And in an overwhelming majority of cases where an abortion is sought it has been planned for.

I'd support, honestly, 98.7% of all abortions in the U.S. for a related reason.

[Risottia]

The fetus should have planned better.

...a foetus cannot.

Yup. That's because the foetus isn't a person.

[New England and The Maritimes]

And in an overwhelming majority of cases where an abortion is sought it has been planned for.

I'd support, honestly, 98.7% of all abortions in the U.S. for a related reason.

I support 100% of abortion procedures provided they are in accordance with the will of the woman involved. 100%.

[Xeng He]

Yup. That's because the foetus isn't a person.

Again, I still have yet to hear about a difference in brain structure between a 23-week old fetus and a 23-week old premature birth.

[Central European Commonwealth]

And I thought the abortion laws here in Poland were fucked up...

This sorry excuse of a doctor should go down for murder. Or at the very least walk into a few big angry guys that will bust his sorry arse to the point where he will need a team of doctors to not suffer the same fate as the woman he killed in cold blood.

[Dyakovo]

Beside the point. If I accidentally run somebody over, I've still run somebody over. If a zygote fetus doesn't have the choice to violate a woman's bodily integrity against her will, it can still do it, and a woman has a right to undo anything that was done.

Making sure we don't switch this back to the 4-week example so some idiot will pull the pictures argument again...


Anyhow, this point goes both ways. Even if a woman didn't choose to put the fetus in her womb, she did so. And again, in her case she could've undone the accident without causing any problems to herself.

No, she didn't.

[New England and The Maritimes]

Yup. That's because the foetus isn't a person.

Again, I still have yet to hear about a difference in brain structure between a 23-week old fetus and a 23-week old premature birth.

Doesn't matter. It is not a person. For the record, if we want benchmarks, infants aren't really people until they're about age 2 by a benchmark of, say, basic cognitive function, fundamental ideas of rationality, and the ability to think in some manner of abstraction.

[Risottia]

Yup. That's because the foetus isn't a person.

Again, I still have yet to hear about a difference in brain structure between a 23-week old fetus and a 23-week old premature birth.

No substantial difference. Neither of them has a neurobiological personhood.
On the other hand, we impart via legal fiction legal personhood on the being that's breathing independently of the lungs of another being. Because that's an easily viable cutoff, as I already stated.