Woman dies in Ireland for want of an abortion

[Laerod]

I have a question, in the OP statement he posted this "It is legal to travel abroad for abortion services," how can they stop a person from traveling outside of the country to obtain one?
Other than that, I find this whole thing mind-boggling, why didn't this couple try to leave the country and go elsewhere?

Arrest them on return. It's not going to "stop" them, but it can discourage.

[Grinning Dragon]

I have a question, in the OP statement he posted this "It is legal to travel abroad for abortion services," how can they stop a person from traveling outside of the country to obtain one?
Other than that, I find this whole thing mind-boggling, why didn't this couple try to leave the country and go elsewhere?

Arrest them on return. It's not going to "stop" them, but it can discourage.

But how would they know? It is not like a female would make a statement, "welp Im going over to this country here to have an abortion" while boarding a jet.

[Galloism]

Arrest them on return. It's not going to "stop" them, but it can discourage.

But how would they know? It is not like a female would make a statement, "welp Im going over to this country here to have an abortion" while boarding a jet.

The US does it when someone flies out of country to have sex with someone who would be underage if they were in this country - if they catch them.

[Dyakovo]

Arrest them on return. It's not going to "stop" them, but it can discourage.

But how would they know? It is not like a female would make a statement, "welp Im going over to this country here to have an abortion" while boarding a jet.

She's pregnant when she leaves, not pregnant when she returns (with no little one in tow)...

[Geilinor]

Her life was in danger, how could doctors not have seen that? That has to be unconstitutional, because the Irish constitution has that exception.

[Grinning Dragon]

But how would they know? It is not like a female would make a statement, "welp Im going over to this country here to have an abortion" while boarding a jet.

The US does it when someone flies out of country to have sex with someone who would be underage if they were in this country - if they catch them.

See that shit is just silly, how in the hell can a country enforce a law on one of it's citizens while in another country?
I know what you are saying is true, I've read about shit like this and just shake my head, on how the US would have jurisdiction in another country.

[Grinning Dragon]

But how would they know? It is not like a female would make a statement, "welp Im going over to this country here to have an abortion" while boarding a jet.

She's pregnant when she leaves, not pregnant when she returns (with no little one in tow)...

And who is keeping track of all of these passengers? I find it very hard that someone is going to remember one passenger from the next.

[Laerod]

Arrest them on return. It's not going to "stop" them, but it can discourage.

But how would they know? It is not like a female would make a statement, "welp Im going over to this country here to have an abortion" while boarding a jet.

That's like asking how the police would know if someone comitted any crime if they don't make statements that they have.

[Dyakovo]

The US does it when someone flies out of country to have sex with someone who would be underage if they were in this country - if they catch them.

See that shit is just silly, how in the hell can a country enforce a law on one of it's citizens while in another country?
I know what you are saying is true, I've read about shit like this and just shake my head, on how the US would have jurisdiction in another country.

Do you suddenly lose citizen ship in your home country if you leave?

[Galloism]

The US does it when someone flies out of country to have sex with someone who would be underage if they were in this country - if they catch them.

See that shit is just silly, how in the hell can a country enforce a law on one of it's citizens while in another country?
I know what you are saying is true, I've read about shit like this and just shake my head, on how the US would have jurisdiction in another country.

It's all based on conspiracy to commit.

If you purchased the plane ticket with that express purpose, your conspiracy (of one, heh) to perpetrate that action began while you were still standing on your country's soil.

[Laerod]

See that shit is just silly, how in the hell can a country enforce a law on one of it's citizens while in another country?
I know what you are saying is true, I've read about shit like this and just shake my head, on how the US would have jurisdiction in another country.

Do you suddenly lose citizen ship in your home country if you leave?

You did in Nazi Germany. If you were Jewish. Even if you were leaving via cattle train to a concentration camp against your will.

[Grinning Dragon]

See that shit is just silly, how in the hell can a country enforce a law on one of it's citizens while in another country?
I know what you are saying is true, I've read about shit like this and just shake my head, on how the US would have jurisdiction in another country.

Do you suddenly lose citizen ship in your home country if you leave?

Of course not, and you knew the answer to this before you even asked it.

What I am saying is, when I step foot in another foreign country, I must abide by that country's laws, I fail to see how, I being an American am subject to US laws then, when in another country, their jurisdiction ended when I left the borders of the US.

[Des-Bal]

All in all this is probably for the best, it's been made inescapably clear that logic isn't working so maybe a pile of corpses will be more persuasive. Things won't get better till they get much much worse.

[Grinning Dragon]

See that shit is just silly, how in the hell can a country enforce a law on one of it's citizens while in another country?
I know what you are saying is true, I've read about shit like this and just shake my head, on how the US would have jurisdiction in another country.

It's all based on conspiracy to commit.

If you purchased the plane ticket with that express purpose, your conspiracy (of one, heh) to perpetrate that action began while you were still standing on your country's soil.

Ahh,now that sheds some light on things. So, I could be guilty of having a thought of doing something illegal. Well all one has to do is keep their mouth shut, then all is well. Loose lips sink ships.

[Galloism]

It's all based on conspiracy to commit.

If you purchased the plane ticket with that express purpose, your conspiracy (of one, heh) to perpetrate that action began while you were still standing on your country's soil.

Ahh,now that sheds some light on things. So, I could be guilty of having a thought of doing something illegal. Well all one has to do is keep their mouth shut, then all is well. Loose lips sink ships.

Nope, not thought of. Took action in furtherance of.

There is a difference.

[Dyakovo]

Do you suddenly lose citizen ship in your home country if you leave?

Of course not, and you knew the answer to this before you even asked it.

Of course I did... The purpose was to point out the flaw in your thinking.

What I am saying is, when I step foot in another foreign country, I must abide by that country's laws, I fail to see how, I being an American am subject to US laws then, when in another country, their jurisdiction ended when I left the borders of the US.

You're still a citizen, therefore the (federal) laws still apply to you.

[Grinning Dragon]

Ahh,now that sheds some light on things. So, I could be guilty of having a thought of doing something illegal. Well all one has to do is keep their mouth shut, then all is well. Loose lips sink ships.

Nope, not thought of. Took action in furtherance of.

There is a difference.

I stand by my statement, loose lips sink ships, or the three SSS's shoot shovel and shutup.

[Grinning Dragon]

Of course not, and you knew the answer to this before you even asked it.

Of course I did... The purpose was to point out the flaw in your thinking.

What I am saying is, when I step foot in another foreign country, I must abide by that country's laws, I fail to see how, I being an American am subject to US laws then, when in another country, their jurisdiction ended when I left the borders of the US.

You're still a citizen, therefore the (federal) laws still apply to you.

While you have pointed this out, I still find it stupid that somehow that I have to follow federal law in another country.

[Torcularis Septentrionalis]

That poor woman, and her poor family... This is why I can't stand "prolifers." They aren't prolife, just propregnancy.

[Grimlundt]

<snipped>
Anybody who thinks that the government ought to ban abortions is a dunce.

I saw a moron on here early ... <snippage>
That moron clearly never had an unwanted pregnancy.
He is probably a man -- so he can;t get pregnant.
And probably never had sex, either.

Then there was another imbecile <snip moar>
Where do these morons come from?

Emphasis mine. Where? Same place you came from obviously. Will clue you in on a little something - opinions are not against the rules, in most cases. How one expresses them, however ... there's the rub. Lines. You're crossing them. Kindly stop with the crossings, and cut out the namecalling and baiting and what not. Thanks.

Opinions? Yes. Idiotic false opinions of AN OBSCENE SORT.
I called them morons.
They called women baby factories ... LOL. That's MUCH more obscene than what I said.
The other one, and you too probably, think that a pack of old men all brainwashed with medieval nonsense ought to make up rules about who can have sex let alone abortion. That's obscene.
The um "pro-life" fools ranting on here are obscene.
They insult women, good men and God.
Yes. God.
They think God holds the same obscene opinions they do.

[Grimlundt]

Women are people. Not baby factories.
They have no "primary purpose" ... LOL ... that man is just in the grips of the naturalistic fallacy.

And I will tell you something else: NOBODY ever really knows how they feel about abortion till they are actually on the operating table.

My wife and I were in the position where there was a 25% chance that we would be "offered" an abortion because something was wrong with the baby. Further tests showed the baby was normal.
So I am telling you ... if you have never been there, you really DO NOT KNOW.

AND THE LAST PERSON I WOULD ASK FOR AN OPINION WOULD BE A POLITICIAN.

I did ask opinions from lots of the mature-age women I was teaching theory to at the time. they gave me excellent advice.
I was so worried I got shingles.

So yeah.
Those pro life fools are obscene.

[Grimlundt]

I'll point it out one more time for the slow learners

When you ban abortions you just force girls and women to use illegal abortionists ... or even try to "fix" it themselves ... often with disastrous results.

Banning abortion, in fact, has little or no impact on the rate of abortions.

In general, do you really think having an abortion is something women take lightly?

Liz: What did you do this morning, Rhonda?
Rhonda: Cup of coffee at Starbucks, read the paper, had an abortion ...
Liz: Oh, the coffee there is delicious!

Do you really think you can change people's minds about abortion ... or come near the truth of it ... with a metaphysical system designed by Thomas Aquinas? LOL

This discussion -- as conducted in the media and by politicians and priests -- is so legalistic, pedantic, metaphysical and caught up in definitions ... it bears no relation to anything remotely do to with lived experience.
It is obscene.

[Moving Forward Inc]

Here is a solution.

Repeal the constitution, get rid of the democratic system, and remove the Catholics from politics on the basis that they have illogical beliefs.
Once this is done, make all abortion legal

Problem solved.

[Grimlundt]

Here is a solution.

Repeal the constitution, get rid of the democratic system, and remove the Catholics from politics on the basis that they have illogical beliefs.
Once this is done, make all abortion legal

Problem solved.

Democracy is supposed to involve principles of open debate.
bad, stupid, illogical superstitions and prejudices ... yes ... you have a right to them.
But if you want them to be law, then you'll need to defend them against good men and women armed with evidence, reason, compassion and a sense of justice.
Religion is an ideology.
All ideologies have a right to participate.
That's how it is supposed to work.

[Grimlundt]

EVIDENCE --
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21255186/ns ... al-or-not/