Woman dies in Ireland for want of an abortion

[Dyakovo]

They don't. Unless it is an animal that is a person.

Then what's with people getting arrested for abusing animals? You shouldn't be arrested for hurting something that has no rights.

If you say so...
Personally, I think even animals deserve legal protection, but whatever floats your boat...

[Brekka]

If someone else decides they want to step up and care for the person the are free to do so...
I suggest that since you're so concerned about it that you do it.

This brings up another point. Why is it that pro-lifers rarely volunteer to take care of the unwanted fetus? Why is it that once you're born, you're fucked.

Most pro-lifers can't take care of someone else's child for various reasons, that's why they support alternatives such as adoption services.

[Dyakovo]

If someone else decides they want to step up and care for the person the are free to do so...
I suggest that since you're so concerned about it that you do it.

This brings up another point. Why is it that pro-lifers rarely volunteer to take care of the unwanted fetus? Why is it that once you're born, you're fucked.

Because they're not the slit that needs to be punished...

[Mavorpen]

This brings up another point. Why is it that pro-lifers rarely volunteer to take care of the unwanted fetus? Why is it that once you're born, you're fucked.

Most pro-lifers can't take care of someone else's child for various reasons, that's why they support alternatives such as adoption services.

Adoption services that barely could keep up with the number of unwanted children?

[Hurdegaryp]

So I'm a crybaby for protesting murder? Alright, alright. I should remember that first line of yours next time I see a leftist saying life's unfair for gays, see how that goes over.

Murder? It's not murder. Unless it's legally defined as murder, it's not murder, and that's not.

Nice try, but your argument sucks.

Brekka uses the good old steamroller tactic: just keep going until everyone else gives up. He sees women as breeding machines that should simply submit and obey to their biological programming as soon as they get pregnant, even if it means the death of them.

[Ostroeuropa]

This brings up another point. Why is it that pro-lifers rarely volunteer to take care of the unwanted fetus? Why is it that once you're born, you're fucked.

Most pro-lifers can't take care of someone else's child for various reasons, that's why they support alternatives such as adoption services.

Where the child can move on to be buggered by a man in a dress and a stupid hat, while the pro-lifers pay his salary and pay for the coverup, then continue to pay for both of those things long after the coverup fails.

[Condunum]

This brings up another point. Why is it that pro-lifers rarely volunteer to take care of the unwanted fetus? Why is it that once you're born, you're fucked.

Most pro-lifers can't take care of someone else's child for various reasons, that's why they support alternatives such as adoption services.

And what of those who can, but chose not to?
I can say with little doubt in my mind that vast numbers of people who are pro-life would not step up to take care of the unwanted fetus.

Also, adoption is a terrible fate for a child. If they aren't adopted young, it often causes severe psychological issues.

[Dyakovo]

Then what's with people getting arrested for abusing animals? You shouldn't be arrested for hurting something that has no rights.

Because we have animal rights, which are separate from human rights. Dyakovo was wrong to say Animals have no rights, but he would not be wrong to say they do not have the rights a human does.

We did happen to be talking about human rights...

[Dyakovo]

I'm sorry, did you expect like to be rainbows and cake? Cry some more. The reason we do this is because the next of kin are considered to have the best interests of the victim in mind, and it usually works out that way.

So I'm a crybaby for protesting murder? Alright, alright. I should remember that first line of yours next time I see a leftist saying life's unfair for gays, see how that goes over.

You're not protesting murder. You're protesting abortion.

[Mavorpen]

Because we have animal rights, which are separate from human rights. Dyakovo was wrong to say Animals have no rights, but he would not be wrong to say they do not have the rights a human does.

We did happen to be talking about human rights...

That's why I didn't say anything. I figured you were talking about animals not having human rights.

Which of course be silly. This coming from an animal rights advocate.

[Condunum]

Because we have animal rights, which are separate from human rights. Dyakovo was wrong to say Animals have no rights, but he would not be wrong to say they do not have the rights a human does.

We did happen to be talking about human rights...

Which is why I added the second sentence. I could tell exactly what you were talking about, but I felt it needed clarification, as he would most certainly have construed your words.

[Dyakovo]

Most pro-lifers can't take care of someone else's child for various reasons, that's why they support alternatives such as adoption services.

Adoption services that barely could already can't keep up with the number of unwanted children?

Fixed for accuracy.

[Condunum]

We did happen to be talking about human rights...

That's why I didn't say anything. I figured you were talking about animals not having human rights.

Which of course be silly. This coming from an animal rights advocate.

Exactly. Animals do get rights. They don't get human rights, because it's neither practical nor logical to try and defend an animal's freedom of speech.

[Mavorpen]

Adoption services that barely could already can't keep up with the number of unwanted children?

Fixed for accuracy.

I was thinking more along the lines of them not being able to keep up even when abortion was illegal.

[Hurdegaryp]

Most pro-lifers can't take care of someone else's child for various reasons, that's why they support alternatives such as adoption services.

Adoption services that barely could keep up with the number of unwanted children?

Of course. You see, the anti-choicers (which seems the better description for their kind) love to see the lives of others being ruined by unwanted pregnancies, but they sure as hell don't want their own lives to be negatively influenced by unwanted children. The anti-choicers are not just misogynists, they often are rather sadistic as well.

[Dyakovo]

Fixed for accuracy.

I was thinking more along the lines of them not being able to keep up even when abortion was illegal.

I figured it was just a matter of slightly sloppy phrasing...

[Mavorpen]

I was thinking more along the lines of them not being able to keep up even when abortion was illegal.

I figured it was just a matter of slightly sloppy phrasing...

Nah, it was past tense. Not that your correction was incorrect.

[Dyakovo]

I figured it was just a matter of slightly sloppy phrasing...

Nah, it was past tense. Not that your correction was incorrect.

Fair enough.

[Xeng He]

I did, and already addressed it. You erected a straw man. NO ONE was using the word parasite. We used the word "parasitic".

Well, okay, I'll admit you're innocent here. Dyakovo, on the other hand...well, I'm pretty certain he was using this as a reason for abortion being acceptable. Which is what I was talking about when you claimed strawman.

Which is bullshit. And intellectually dishonest.

A fetus has no bodily integrity when it is taking away the rights of another person.

Life is more important than bodily integrity, therefore a fetus has that, though.

[Xeng He]

Rights are something a person has. A foetus is not a person.

It's every bit as much a person as a newborn, as has already been discussed.

[Condunum]

I did, and already addressed it. You erected a straw man. NO ONE was using the word parasite. We used the word "parasitic".

Well, okay, I'll admit you're innocent here. Dyakovo, on the other hand...well, I'm pretty certain he was using this as a reason for abortion being unacceptable. Which is what I was talking about when you claimed strawman.

Which is bullshit.

A fetus has no bodily integrity when it is taking away the rights of another person.

Life is more important than bodily integrity, therefore a fetus has that, though.

And by the same logic, we have no right to kill a mosquito for sucking blood.

[Condunum]

Rights are something a person has. A foetus is not a person.

It's every bit as much a person as a newborn, as has already been discussed.

Considering that personhood is a legal term... How is it a person, by law?

[Xeng He]

And by the same logic, we have no right to kill a mosquito for sucking blood.

I wholeheartedly agree. We have absolutely no right to kill a mosquito for sucking blood.

[Dyakovo]

I did, and already addressed it. You erected a straw man. NO ONE was using the word parasite. We used the word "parasitic".

Well, okay, I'll admit you're innocent here. Dyakovo, on the other hand...well, I'm pretty certain he was using this as a reason for abortion being unacceptable. Which is what I was talking about when you claimed strawman.

1: I don't consider abortion to be unacceptable.
2: I never said that a foetus was a parasite.

Which is bullshit.

Yes, that describes most of what you've said quite well.

A fetus has no bodily integrity when it is taking away the rights of another person.

Life is more important than bodily integrity, therefore a fetus has that, though.

So if I need a kidney I can just take it from you?
Or is it just women that don't have a right to bodily integrity?

[Dyakovo]

Rights are something a person has. A foetus is not a person.

It's every bit as much a person as a newborn, as has already been discussed.

No, it isn't.