Israeli "Operation Cloud Pillar" 2012

[The Emerald Dawn]

Which means Hamas is going to have to stop threatening Fatah. Which means Hamas is going to have to stop using fear as a weapon.

Which means asking Hamas to not to be Hamas.

Basically. If Hamas dropped the portion of their platform that included militant opposition to things, they'd actually be a fairly well run political party.

[Souseiseki]

Just because Grads and Katyushas are as expensive as fuck compared to the DIY Qassam doesn't mean that the PFLP or Islamic Jihad can't get access to them.

So long! I was just about to copy poste your/Ralks conversation and edit it. So close.

That's why I was wondering on whether there was a breakdown on the type of rocket. Probably not. We're probably running on conjecture here. Would you say that Hamas has the most access to the better munitions?

You should cite things as you go, make things easier.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wikilea ... -IRAN.html

Tel Aviv?

Well it's written by someone is Gaza so am I allowed to say I don't trust it?

Generally I expect my reports on what happens in Gaza to come from reporters in Gaza. If anyhting you'd think it'd help!

And this still begs the question, why did Hamas lift the ceasefire in the first place?

"On 4 November 2008, the IDF made an incursion at least 250 meters into the Gaza Strip ... Hamas stated that the attack was a "massive breach of the truce"

Then it appears they disagreed on the terms of a renewal.

Seems a funny coincidence. On the day Hamas lifted the ceasefire, several illegal groups happened to choose it as the day to disobey the ruling party and fire 20 rockets into Israel.

I don't understand. Was this on the day before it was lifted, or after? The site wants me to log in, so...

I mean, the ceasefire expired on the 19th, and Hamas officially said they would not be renewing it on the 20th. The URL of the article however does seem to be 2008/12/20. So the big coincidence is they choose the day the ceasefire expired to fire rockets, or the day the ceasefire was officially not being continued as the day to fire rockets? What is the coincidence here?

[Norsklow]

Foreign intervention in the Gaza strip would most likely be to remove the shitty self-instilled leadership and replacing it with someone who actually gets shit done, like Fatah.

Democracy isn't an exportable commodity. If you want Fatah to get into power, Fatah's gonna have to get more competent at providing basic services for the inhabitants of Gaza.

Suggestions how the West can help Fatah in that regard in a way which is not pre-judicial to the balance of power within the Palestinian/Israeli Conflict? I'm certainly not disinclined to be helpful towards Fatah vis-a-vis Hamas.

[Tmutarakhan]

Which means Hamas is going to have to stop threatening Fatah. Which means Hamas is going to have to stop using fear as a weapon.

Which means asking Hamas to not be Hamas.

It would help if Likud would not be Likud, also. Israeli election day is in January: I would like to see Bibi as gobsmacked as Mitt.

[Vitaphone Racing]

Just because Grads and Katyushas are as expensive as fuck compared to the DIY Qassam doesn't mean that the PFLP or Islamic Jihad can't get access to them.

So long! I was just about to copy poste your/Ralks conversation and edit it. So close.

That's why I was wondering on whether there was a breakdown on the type of rocket. Probably not. We're probably running on conjecture here. Would you say that Hamas has the most access to the better munitions?

Yeah, but where are you going with this?

Well it's written by someone is Gaza so am I allowed to say I don't trust it?

Generally I expect my reports on what happens in Gaza to come from reporters in Gaza. If anyhting you'd think it'd help!

So what's wrong with me posting an Israeli military source. Surely nobody would know military operations better than them.

And this still begs the question, why did Hamas lift the ceasefire in the first place?

"On 4 November 2008, the IDF made an incursion at least 250 meters into the Gaza Strip ... Hamas stated that the attack was a "massive breach of the truce"

To remove an illegal smuggling tunnel... How dare they protect their homes and shit.

Then it appears they disagreed on the terms of a renewal.

Even though the terms didn't change from the last brokered peace.

Seems a funny coincidence. On the day Hamas lifted the ceasefire, several illegal groups happened to choose it as the day to disobey the ruling party and fire 20 rockets into Israel.

I don't understand. Was this on the day before it was lifted, or after? The site wants me to log in, so...

I mean, the ceasefire expired on the 19th, and Hamas officially said they would not be renewing it on the 20th. The URL of the article however does seem to be 2008/12/20. So the big coincidence is they choose the day the ceasefire expired to fire rockets, or the day the ceasefire was officially not being continued as the day to fire rockets? What is the coincidence here?

Actually Hamas said they ended the truce on the 18th of December and then rockets were fired into Israel on that day.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2009/01/0 ... 3320090105

[Sulamalik]

Democracy isn't an exportable commodity. If you want Fatah to get into power, Fatah's gonna have to get more competent at providing basic services for the inhabitants of Gaza.

Suggestions how the West can help Fatah in that regard in a way which is not pre-judicial to the balance of power within the Palestinian/Israeli Conflict? I'm certainly not disinclined to be helpful towards Fatah vis-a-vis Hamas.

If the Palestinian people don't believe that Fatah can win them their freedom and secure their dignity as a people, all the money in the West won't help Fatah win control of Gaza.

That's the thing about Islam as a political ideology, and why it triumphs over democratic secularism in places like Gaza. Islam is the single most effective means of enacting change in the world. History has shown it can create empires, topple empires, and merge empires together. And even more importantly, it has the power to give a lost boy a cause worth killing and dying for.

[Souseiseki]

Yeah, but where are you going with this?

Well, like I said before, if you got rid of a bunch of shit rockets in exchange for getting back the most well armed group...

So what's wrong with me posting an Israeli military source. Surely nobody would know military operations better than them.

There's a difference betwen being part of an organization and being in a place.

To remove an illegal smuggling tunnel... How dare they protect their homes and shit.

Hey, they're the ones that consider it a breach of the truce. Goddamn chocolate.

Even though the terms didn't change from the last brokered peace.

"At an Israeli Cabinet meeting on 21 December, Yuval Diskin, head of Israel's internal security agency, said he thought Hamas was "interested in continuing the truce, but wants to improve its terms... It wants us to lift the siege [of Gaza], stop attacks, and extend the truce to include [the West Bank].""

Sounds like a difference?

Actually Hamas said they ended the truce on the 18th of December and then rockets were fired into Israel on that day.

December 14 - Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal says the group will not renew a six-month-old truce with Israel.

December 18 - Hamas declares the end of the Egyptian-brokered cease-fire, which expires the next day with a surge of cross-border fighting.

Oh. *shrugh*

I still don't see what the big conspiracy coincidence is. They knew the cease-fire was ending soon, and then they did the things they weren't allowed to do during the cease-fire after the cease-fire ended?

[Norsklow]

Which means asking Hamas to not be Hamas.

It would help if Likud would not be Likud, also. Israeli election day is in January: I would like to see Bibi as gobsmacked as Mitt.

Has anyone yet noticed that Israel within itself has 2 ethnicities: Ashkenazi v Sephardic?
It is quite possible that things have changed since I was there, but it used to be Kadima being the Ashkenazi bulwark and Likud being the Sephardic bulwark.
I'm presuming that that means that essentially, it is Kadima being the hopeless all-white basket-case in Israel that the GOP is in in the United States.

[Srboslavija]

NSG urges the US, UN, NATO for foreign intervention in the Gaza Strip to protect the lives of innocent civilians. #GazaUnderSeige #FreeGaza

No. No we don't. Stop posting hash tags. We're not twitter.

Yes, yes we do. And people Googling will know that we at NSG #StandWithGaza

[Vitaphone Racing]

Well, like I said before, if you got rid of a bunch of shit rockets in exchange for getting back the most well armed group...

It seems like got rid of a bunch of shit rockets and the prized rockets of the most well armed group.

There's a difference betwen being part of an organization and being in a place.

W/e.

Hey, they're the ones that consider it a breach of the truce. Goddamn chocolate.

Not being allowed chocolate obviously justifies the building of smuggling tunnels for a range of contraband to come through. Other wise you wouldn't have mentioned it.

"At an Israeli Cabinet meeting on 21 December, Yuval Diskin, head of Israel's internal security agency, said he thought Hamas was "interested in continuing the truce, but wants to improve its terms... It wants us to lift the siege [of Gaza], stop attacks, and extend the truce to include [the West Bank].""

Sounds like a difference?

I meant the terms which were being offered by the Israelis.

December 14 - Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal says the group will not renew a six-month-old truce with Israel.

December 18 - Hamas declares the end of the Egyptian-brokered cease-fire, which expires the next day with a surge of cross-border fighting.

Oh. *shrugh*

I still don't see what the big conspiracy coincidence is. They knew the cease-fire was ending soon, and then they did the things they weren't allowed to do during the cease-fire after the cease-fire ended?

Because it's perfectly acceptable for Hamas to fire rockets into Israel after the 18th because the ceasefire ended. Cross border attacks are only bad if it's in a ceasefire, right, gotcha.

Anyway, I have to go hence I won't be replying for a few hours or perhaps until tomorrow, just fyi.

[Vitaphone Racing]

No. No we don't. Stop posting hash tags. We're not twitter.

Yes, yes we do. And people Googling will know that we at NSG #StandWithGaza

#proIsrael #fatahisnumberone #removehamas #standwithisrael

sorry, we can't ever have a consensus on NSG. Like, ever.

[Norsklow]

Suggestions how the West can help Fatah in that regard in a way which is not pre-judicial to the balance of power within the Palestinian/Israeli Conflict? I'm certainly not disinclined to be helpful towards Fatah vis-a-vis Hamas.

A: If the Palestinian people don't believe that Fatah can win them their freedom and secure their dignity as a people, all the money in the West won't help Fatah win control of Gaza.

B: That's the thing about Islam as a political ideology, and why it triumphs over democratic secularism in places like Gaza. Islam is the single most effective means of enacting change in the world. History has shown it can create empires, topple empires, and merge empires together. And even more importantly, it has the power to give a lost boy a cause worth killing and dying for.

A: I had come to the conclusion that money wont settle the business. Are there perhaps skills that can be transferred?

B: I noticed and I can certainly sympathize. It was the same in South Sudan. The Civil War made Catholic Christianity politially dominant,as a unifying factor, in a very similar way. So I can understand how Islam would have the same effect among Arabs. I certainly think of secularism as the the ideology of those who think they are hungry but actually could use a bit of fasting.

[Souseiseki]

It seems like got rid of a bunch of shit rockets and the prized rockets of the most well armed group.


W/e.


Not being allowed chocolate obviously justifies the building of smuggling tunnels for a range of contraband to come through. Other wise you wouldn't have mentioned it.


I meant the terms which were being offered by the Israelis.

Because it's perfectly acceptable for Hamas to fire rockets into Israel after the 18th because the ceasefire ended. Cross border attacks are only bad if it's in a ceasefire, right, gotcha.

Anyway, I have to go hence I won't be replying for a few hours or perhaps until tomorrow, just fyi.

Is that the big conspiracy coincidence you were referring to?

I never said it was acceptable, but you seem to think it's a "coincidence".

There is a difference between attacking during a cease-fire and attacking when there is no longer a cease-fire, yes. I'm not saying it's "acceptable", but there is a difference between "breaking the cease-fire" and "not breaking the cease-fire".

It's 2AM, woah.

[Souseiseki]

No. No we don't. Stop posting hash tags. We're not twitter.

Yes, yes we do. And people Googling will know that we at NSG #StandWithGaza

#FreddieMercury

[Sulamalik]

A: If the Palestinian people don't believe that Fatah can win them their freedom and secure their dignity as a people, all the money in the West won't help Fatah win control of Gaza.

B: That's the thing about Islam as a political ideology, and why it triumphs over democratic secularism in places like Gaza. Islam is the single most effective means of enacting change in the world. History has shown it can create empires, topple empires, and merge empires together. And even more importantly, it has the power to give a lost boy a cause worth killing and dying for.

A: I had come to the conclusion that money wont settle the business. Are there perhaps skills that can be transferred?

B: I noticed and I can certainly sympathize. It was the same in South Sudan. The Civil War made Catholic Christianity politially dominant,as a unifying factor, in a very similar way. So I can understand how Islam would have the same effect among Arabs.

I don't know what sort of skills the West could provide to Fatah. Frankly, it's hard to think of any competent political party in the West, let alone one with transferable skills that would be of use to a party in a city under siege two thousand miles away.

[Norsklow]

No. No we don't. Stop posting hash tags. We're not twitter.

Yes, yes we do. And people Googling will know that we at NSG #StandWithGaza

Ah. Did you do the same thing with your secessionism? It was you then who brought the klukkers in.

[Ralkovia]

#proIsrael #fatahisnumberone #removehamas #standwithisrael

sorry, we can't ever have a consensus on NSG. Like, ever.

#proIsrael
#fatahisnumberone
#removehamas
#standwithisrael
#Hamasareterrorists
#Hamasisgay
#Gazasucks

[Tmutarakhan]

No. No we don't. Stop posting hash tags. We're not twitter.

Yes, yes we do.

NO. WE DON'T.
It is seriously unacceptable for you to speak for "us".

[Norsklow]

A: I had come to the conclusion that money wont settle the business. Are there perhaps skills that can be transferred?

B: I noticed and I can certainly sympathize. It was the same in South Sudan. The Civil War made Catholic Christianity politially dominant,as a unifying factor, in a very similar way. So I can understand how Islam would have the same effect among Arabs.

I don't know what sort of skills the West could provide to Fatah. Frankly, it's hard to think of any competent political party in the West, let alone one with any transferable skills that would be of use to a party in a city under siege two thousand miles away.

Civic service-providing is probably more to the point than Campaign Management. *puts his thinking cap on*

[Srboslavija]

The risks of supporting Gaza... there's an active campaign to have me banned in the Mod room.

Whatever dudes, I'm finished with this topic. BUT THE WORLD KNOWS.

[Sulamalik]

I don't know what sort of skills the West could provide to Fatah. Frankly, it's hard to think of any competent political party in the West, let alone one with any transferable skills that would be of use to a party in a city under siege two thousand miles away.

Civic service-providing is probably more to the point than Campaign Management. *puts his thinking cap on*

Yeah, that's what won Hamas the election. They were the only group actually providing social welfare programs. IDK though, winning voters through soup kitchens and blankets isn't a foreign concept to the Middle East.

When it comes down to it, Fatah would have to somehow convince the Palestinian people that they can secure their rights and freedoms through peaceful, democratic means, as opposed to Hamas's militant approach. Israel isn't really helping them out on that front.

[Strykla]

No. No we don't. Stop posting hash tags. We're not twitter.

Yes, yes we do. And people Googling will know that we at NSG #StandWithGaza

#nukegaza

[Ralkovia]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsm-mEy3 ... e=youtu.be

#15Seconds
#Proisrael
#FuckGaza
#Hamassucks

[Srboslavija]

Yes, yes we do.

NO. WE DON'T.
It is seriously unacceptable for you to speak for "us".

No one is stopping you from speaking for "us".

Also note - all posts get indexed by Google analytics [google search a few keywords from a post you've made in the last day - it will come up]. All I've done is brought attention to it, in humorous fashion.

Now you want me banned for it? Calm your farm ffs

[Sulamalik]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsm-mEy38pQ&feature=youtu.be

#15Seconds
#Proisrael
#FuckGaza
#Hamassucks

Personally, I get all my political opinions from the youtube comments section.