Israeli "Operation Cloud Pillar" 2012

[New England and The Maritimes]

I don't understand all this talk about "retaliation." Israel has been engaging in "retaliation" for decades, and it hasn't worked. They're just beating drums to pile up more dead bodies at this point.

Cast Lead seemed to work.

It's worked so well that Israel is facing one of the worst rocket attacks in years at the moment. Yep.

[Gravlen]

If you are so sure, then why is Israel playing right into their hands?

The Israeli government's job is to minimize the number of Israelis killed, and killing Palestinian militants has been very effective in bringing the Israeli death toll down (the wall has been even more effective).

One would think a peace agreement would be more effective in the long run.

But then again, you did say "minimize" and not "eliminate" or "reduce to 0", so...

[Costa Alegria]

It's worked so well that Israel is facing one of the worst rocket attacks in years at the moment. Yep.

Four years of relative peace is better than nothing isn't it?

[The Emerald Dawn]

There are plenty of rules to warfare. Both sides do care about civilian casualties. how and to what degree they care may be different, but they do care.

The Palestinian side cares in that they want as many civilian casualties as possible. Their attacks on the Israelis are INTENDED to kill civilians. They also want as many Palestinian civilians killed as possible, so that they can score propaganda points off them.

If that's true, they suck at their job.

The rockets are "aimed" in the same way a retarded rhino on rocketskates is aimed. Once the fuse is lit, the guidance systems on most of this is worse than artillery grade.

[Souseiseki]

I don't understand all this talk about "retaliation." Israel has been engaging in "retaliation" for decades, and it hasn't worked. They're just beating drums to pile up more dead bodies at this point.

Cast Lead seemed to work.

cast lead lol

[Suidwes-Afrika]

LEAVE!

GO TO AFGHANISTAN WHERE ITS SAFE!

Canada, actually. Close enough.

What is it with South Africans and Canada?

[The Emerald Dawn]

Cast Lead seemed to work.

cast lead lol

Is the B'Tsaleem the source?

[Souseiseki]

It's worked so well that Israel is facing one of the worst rocket attacks in years at the moment. Yep.

Four years of relative peace is better than nothing isn't it?

we've had 4 years of relative peace since the last military actions just before the elections in january 2009

mmm, there's an election coming up in january 2013

[Gravlen]

Four years of relative peace is better than nothing isn't it?

we've had 4 years of relative peace since the last military actions just before the elections in january 2009

mmm, there's an election coming up in january 2013

Simply a coincidence, I'm sure...

[Costa Alegria]

we've had 4 years of relative peace since the last military actions just before the elections in january 2009

mmm, there's an election coming up in january 2013

Simply a coincidence, I'm sure...

Probably. Although Bibi's railing about Iran has seemed to work wonders to distract the Israelis from further social justice protests.

[Delanshar]

The Israeli government's job is to minimize the number of Israelis killed, and killing Palestinian militants has been very effective in bringing the Israeli death toll down (the wall has been even more effective).

One would think a peace agreement would be more effective in the long run.

But then again, you did say "minimize" and not "eliminate" or "reduce to 0", so...

Good luck trying to achieve peace with terrorists who hide their weapons in schools and hospitals.

[Souseiseki]

One would think a peace agreement would be more effective in the long run.

But then again, you did say "minimize" and not "eliminate" or "reduce to 0", so...

Good luck trying to achieve peace with terrorists who hide their weapons in schools and hospitals.

"The truce started slowly, with the UN recording seven IDF violations of the ceasefire between June 20 and June 26, and three violations by Palestinian groups not affiliated with Hamas between June 23 and 26."

[Souseiseki]

One would think a peace agreement would be more effective in the long run.

But then again, you did say "minimize" and not "eliminate" or "reduce to 0", so...

Good luck trying to achieve peace with terrorists who hide their weapons in schools and hospitals.

For the vast majority of homes destroyed, more than 3,000, and damaged, some 20,000, during Operation “Cast Lead”, the Israeli army has provided no evidence to substantiate its allegations that the houses were used as combat positions, as military command centres or to manufacture or store weapons – or for any other purpose which, under certain circumstances, would have made it lawful to target them.

Many of the houses, factories and farms were bulldozed and many of the houses were destroyed with Israeli anti-tank mines, as evident from the remains of the mines that littered the destroyed neighbourhoods, and from the pattern of destruction resulting from this method. Although designed to be used against tanks, these mines can also be set off remotely. Israeli forces have often used them to destroy Palestinian houses in the West Bank and at times also in Gaza.

The fact that the soldiers used this method – which required them to leave their tanks, walk between buildings and enter houses in order to place the explosive charges inside the houses along the supporting walls – indicates that they felt extremely confident that there were no Palestinian gunmen inside or around the houses. It also indicates their confidence that there were no tunnels under the houses which gunmen could use to capture them, and that the houses were not booby-trapped. Had the soldiers believed that they were in danger of being shot, blown up or captured, they would not have ventured out of their tanks to place the mines inside the houses.

Clearly marked ambulances with flashing emergency lights and paramedics wearing recognizable fluorescent vests were repeatedly fired upon as they attempted to rescue the wounded and collect the dead. Such attacks intensified after Israeli ground forces took positions inside Gaza on 3 January 2009. Palestinian ambulance crews tried as best they could to reach as many of the wounded and the dead as possible. They and the international volunteers who accompanied some of the ambulance crews risked their lives every day to carry out their mission.

[Souseiseki]

One would think a peace agreement would be more effective in the long run.

But then again, you did say "minimize" and not "eliminate" or "reduce to 0", so...

Good luck trying to achieve peace with terrorists who hide their weapons in schools and hospitals.

During Operation “Cast Lead” Israeli forces repeatedly took over Palestinian homes in the Gaza Strip forcing families to stay in a ground-floor room while they used the rest of their house as a military base and sniper position – effectively using the families, both adults and children, as “human shields” and putting them at risk.

While soldiers wore protective body armour and helmets and shielded themselves behind sandbags as they fired from the houses, the Palestinian inhabitants of the houses had no such protection.

this is the best one

[Souseiseki]

One would think a peace agreement would be more effective in the long run.

But then again, you did say "minimize" and not "eliminate" or "reduce to 0", so...

Good luck trying to achieve peace with terrorists who hide their weapons in schools and hospitals.

From 3 January, when the Israeli ground incursion began, until the end of Operation “Cast Lead”, dozens of Israeli tanks took position in various locations inside the Gaza Strip, mostly in the east and north of Gaza. Tanks can fire high-explosive munitions, notably 120mm deep-penetration projectiles and guided shells with extreme precision, including while on the move and at moving targets, from a distance up to 3km from the target.

From these positions inside Gaza Israeli tanks often fired into Palestinian houses up to 2km or more away, killing scores of unarmed civilians, many of them children and women. In all the cases investigated by Amnesty International, the victims were neither caught in the crossfire of battles between soldiers and militants, nor were they shielding militants.

Others who fled their homes were killed or injured when UN schools and other places where they had sought shelter came under Israeli attack.

those UN schools were full of hamas weapons, but the liberal bias forgets to mention this

[Tmutarakhan]

what are your crimes

What do you mean? I don't understand what you mean with this.

It means he is a Scientologist. They are taught that this is an effective argument tactic.

One would think a peace agreement would be more effective in the long run.

If the Palestinian leadership wanted an internationally recognized independent state, agreeing to the armistice of 1949 would have gotten them that-- or, you know, stopping the fighting at any time since then.

[Souseiseki]

What do you mean? I don't understand what you mean with this.

It means he is a Scientologist. They are taught that this is an effective argument tactic.

One would think a peace agreement would be more effective in the long run.

If the Palestinian leadership wanted an internationally recognized independent state, agreeing to the armistice of 1949 would have gotten them that-- or, you know, stopping the fighting at any time since then.

it's nice you caught the reference but nah

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/ ... UX20121114

[Costa Alegria]

During Operation “Cast Lead” Israeli forces repeatedly took over Palestinian homes in the Gaza Strip forcing families to stay in a ground-floor room while they used the rest of their house as a military base and sniper position – effectively using the families, both adults and children, as “human shields” and putting them at risk.

While soldiers wore protective body armour and helmets and shielded themselves behind sandbags as they fired from the houses, the Palestinian inhabitants of the houses had no such protection.

this is the best one

At risk from what?

[Sulamalik]

During Operation “Cast Lead” Israeli forces repeatedly took over Palestinian homes in the Gaza Strip forcing families to stay in a ground-floor room while they used the rest of their house as a military base and sniper position – effectively using the families, both adults and children, as “human shields” and putting them at risk.

While soldiers wore protective body armour and helmets and shielded themselves behind sandbags as they fired from the houses, the Palestinian inhabitants of the houses had no such protection.

this is the best one

At risk from what?

Counter-fire?

[Souseiseki]

I don't understand all this talk about "retaliation." Israel has been engaging in "retaliation" for decades, and it hasn't worked. They're just beating drums to pile up more dead bodies at this point.

Cast Lead seemed to work.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wikilea ... -IRAN.html

3. (S) Regarding the Tahdiya, Hacham said Barak stressed that while it was not permanent, for the time being it was holding. There have been a number of violations of the ceasefire on the Gaza side, but Palestinian factions other than Hamas were responsible. Hacham said the Israelis assess that Hamas is making a serious effort to convince the other factions not to launch rockets or mortars. Israel remains concerned by Hamas' ongoing efforts to use the Tahdiya to increase their strength, and at some point, military action will have to be put back on the table. The Israelis reluctantly admit that the Tahdiya has served to further consolidate Hamas' grip on Gaza, but it has brought a large measure of peace and quiet to Israeli communities near Gaza.

no, really, what does this mean. what did cast lead achieve? reducing the number of israelis being killed by rockets from 0 to 4? wait that's not right. i'm kind of confused.

[Souseiseki]

During Operation “Cast Lead” Israeli forces repeatedly took over Palestinian homes in the Gaza Strip forcing families to stay in a ground-floor room while they used the rest of their house as a military base and sniper position – effectively using the families, both adults and children, as “human shields” and putting them at risk.

While soldiers wore protective body armour and helmets and shielded themselves behind sandbags as they fired from the houses, the Palestinian inhabitants of the houses had no such protection.

this is the best one

At risk from what?

At risk from what?

Counter-fire?

[Vitaphone Racing]

Cast Lead seemed to work.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wikilea ... -IRAN.html

3. (S) Regarding the Tahdiya, Hacham said Barak stressed that while it was not permanent, for the time being it was holding. There have been a number of violations of the ceasefire on the Gaza side, but Palestinian factions other than Hamas were responsible. Hacham said the Israelis assess that Hamas is making a serious effort to convince the other factions not to launch rockets or mortars. Israel remains concerned by Hamas' ongoing efforts to use the Tahdiya to increase their strength, and at some point, military action will have to be put back on the table. The Israelis reluctantly admit that the Tahdiya has served to further consolidate Hamas' grip on Gaza, but it has brought a large measure of peace and quiet to Israeli communities near Gaza.

no, really, what does this mean. what did cast lead achieve? reducing the number of israelis being killed by rockets from 0 to 4? wait that's not right. i'm kind of confused.

Reduced the number of rockets fired into Israel by 75%.

http://www.mfa.gov.il/mfa/terrorism-+ob ... t_lead.htm

[Ralkovia]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wikilea ... -IRAN.html

3. (S) Regarding the Tahdiya, Hacham said Barak stressed that while it was not permanent, for the time being it was holding. There have been a number of violations of the ceasefire on the Gaza side, but Palestinian factions other than Hamas were responsible. Hacham said the Israelis assess that Hamas is making a serious effort to convince the other factions not to launch rockets or mortars. Israel remains concerned by Hamas' ongoing efforts to use the Tahdiya to increase their strength, and at some point, military action will have to be put back on the table. The Israelis reluctantly admit that the Tahdiya has served to further consolidate Hamas' grip on Gaza, but it has brought a large measure of peace and quiet to Israeli communities near Gaza.

no, really, what does this mean. what did cast lead achieve? reducing the number of israelis being killed by rockets from 0 to 4? wait that's not right. i'm kind of confused.

Reduced the number of rockets fired into Israel by 75%.

http://www.mfa.gov.il/mfa/terrorism-+ob ... t_lead.htm

LOLOLOL

"WHAT DID IT DO"
'Stop the rockets.'

Love you vitaphone. Always a voice of reason in whatever thread I join.

[Souseiseki]

Reduced the number of rockets fired into Israel by 75%.

http://www.mfa.gov.il/mfa/terrorism-+ob ... t_lead.htm

LOLOLOL

"WHAT DID IT DO"
'Stop the rockets.'

Love you vitaphone. Always a voice of reason in whatever thread I join.

i don't see what's so LOLOLOL about it, tbh. it makes you sound like someone that's more interested in "winning" points and fellating posters you think are totally cool instead of anything constructive.

this isn't 4chan. LOLOLOL told!!!

do as i say, not as i post.

[Ralkovia]

LOLOLOL

"WHAT DID IT DO"
'Stop the rockets.'

Love you vitaphone. Always a voice of reason in whatever thread I join.

i don't see what's so LOLOLOL about it, tbh. it makes you sound like someone that's more interested in "winning" points and fellating posters you think are totally cool instead of anything constructive.

this isn't 4chan. LOLOLOL told!!!

do as i say, not as i post.

Address Vitaphones point, not my lolling at your incompetence. I'm not your distraction so you can get out of answering him.