Israeli "Operation Cloud Pillar" 2012

[Tmutarakhan]

I am not "blaming the Israelis for not taking enough deaths", I am pointing out that the IDF has killed more civilians in November, up to the whole war thing and indeed during, than the Palestinians.

In other words, you are blaming the Israelis for not taking enough deaths. It is the IDF's job to minimize Israeli deaths. In the 60's, the Palestinians used to kill a lot more Jews. That is why the Palestinians got themselves occupied in the first place. Over the years the Israelis have gotten better and better at making sure that the Palestinians don't succeed in killing very many of them. If the Palestinians don't want Palestinians killed, well that would be easy for them to manage.

The whole point I'm making is that handing outright blame to either side is bloody stupid. Did you miss that bit?

I did not miss that at all. You just don't seem to understand my response. There would be NO deaths, NONE at all, neither Israeli nor Palestinian dead, except that the Palestinians have chosen this.

It is not a black-and-white issue. There are good Israelis and bad Israelis, and good Palestinians and bad Palestinians. Blaming "Israel" or "Palestine" outright is a ridiculous conclusion to draw and helps no-one.

The existence of good people and bad on both sides is irrelevant here. The blame for the continuing deaths is 100% on the Palestinian side.

[Tmutarakhan]

Honestly if you want to write off a attack that killed Civilians and damaged a civilian structure a tactic isreal seems ever so fond of Feel free.

I don't buy that BS though.

Why not? You buy plenty of other BS. You are the one who openly advocates nuclear devastation: if you were in Saddam's place I am sure you would be building bombs and lying about it.

[Souseiseki]

I am not "blaming the Israelis for not taking enough deaths", I am pointing out that the IDF has killed more civilians in November, up to the whole war thing and indeed during, than the Palestinians.

In other words, you are blaming the Israelis for not taking enough deaths. It is the IDF's job to minimize Israeli deaths. In the 60's, the Palestinians used to kill a lot more Jews. That is why the Palestinians got themselves occupied in the first place. Over the years the Israelis have gotten better and better at making sure that the Palestinians don't succeed in killing very many of them. If the Palestinians don't want Palestinians killed, well that would be easy for them to manage.

The whole point I'm making is that handing outright blame to either side is bloody stupid. Did you miss that bit?

I did not miss that at all. You just don't seem to understand my response. There would be NO deaths, NONE at all, neither Israeli nor Palestinian dead, except that the Palestinians have chosen this.

It is not a black-and-white issue. There are good Israelis and bad Israelis, and good Palestinians and bad Palestinians. Blaming "Israel" or "Palestine" outright is a ridiculous conclusion to draw and helps no-one.

The existence of good people and bad on both sides is irrelevant here. The blame for the continuing deaths is 100% on the Palestinian side.

it's your fault we occupied you. maybe you should just bend over and take it and maybe we'll treat you better? stop making us bomb your homes. look at what you're making us do. oh dahiya please stop making us do this.

[Tmutarakhan]

i'll let you fire a qassam rocket at me from the same distance as gaza if you let me coordinate an israeli air strike on you

we'll see what happens

If on the other hand, it is you that has the option to fire a qassam rocket, and I who have the option to strike you back with an air force, you would agree that firing the qassam rocket was a stupid choice to make?
Some pages back, you asked whether Finland should put up with the Russians. During the war, they didn't-- but, you may have noticed, in the decades since they lost the war, and lost a populous stretch of their territory, Finns have not been lobbing rockets over the border, blowing up Russian schoolbuses, sending suicide bombers into Russian marketplaces, etc. The Karelian refugees, like all of the other displaced peoples of the 40's (the Palestinians were hardly the largest, or worst-off, of those groups) have gotten on with their lives a long time ago. Finns would find the idea of devoting themselves to refighting and re-refighting a war they lost a lifetime ago to be utterly insane, as most people would.

[The Zeonic States]

Honestly if you want to write off a attack that killed Civilians and damaged a civilian structure a tactic isreal seems ever so fond of Feel free.

I don't buy that BS though.

Why not? You buy plenty of other BS. You are the one who openly advocates nuclear devastation: if you were in Saddam's place I am sure you would be building bombs and lying about it.

Except there was no evidence of there actually being any uranium on site and the fact it was a civilian project not even close to any Military faculity made no diffrence, the fact it was crewed and being built by civilians.

You know what; Buy into the lies Isreal spewed about that little incident, I don't espeically care.

The fact it was abandoned indicated to me at least that any Military import that faculity had was minor if at all, and as well know Iraq never had Nuclear weapons, If they truely wanted to aquire them there are better ways then building a sprawling, expensive and energy effience nuclear power station.

[Divair]

Four rockets just hit Eshkol, another hit Ofakim.


Ceasefire was originally supposed to go into effect 26 minutes ago.

[The Emerald Dawn]

Four rockets just hit Eshkol, another hit Ofakim.


Ceasefire was originally supposed to go into effect 26 minutes ago.

Possibly the rockets took the scenic route? Stopped for some halal gourmet?

[Sulamalik]

Four rockets just hit Eshkol, another hit Ofakim.


Ceasefire was originally supposed to go into effect 26 minutes ago.

Was anyone hurt?

[Divair]

Four rockets just hit Eshkol, another hit Ofakim.


Ceasefire was originally supposed to go into effect 26 minutes ago.

Was anyone hurt?

No reported injuries yet.

[Sulamalik]

Was anyone hurt?

No reported injuries yet.

Here's hoping it stays that way.

[Quebec and Atlantic Canada]

On another note:

http://www.libyaherald.com/2012/11/20/l ... palestine/

Clearly this is proof that Libya has been taken over by radical anti-Semites and that the country was better off under Gaddafi.

[Great Nepal]

Four rockets just hit Eshkol, another hit Ofakim.
Ceasefire was originally supposed to go into effect 26 minutes ago.

Israel shouldn't bother any more and go all in with troops and permanently occupy it. Hamas committed to ceasefire and broke it.

[Divair]

Four rockets just hit Eshkol, another hit Ofakim.
Ceasefire was originally supposed to go into effect 26 minutes ago.

Israel shouldn't bother any more and go all in with troops and permanently occupy it. Hamas committed to ceasefire and broke it.

The ceasefire never actually happened.

[Souseiseki]

Four rockets just hit Eshkol, another hit Ofakim.
Ceasefire was originally supposed to go into effect 26 minutes ago.

Israel shouldn't bother any more and go all in with troops and permanently occupy it. Hamas committed to ceasefire and broke it.

1) but the cease-fire never actually happened
2) hamas, the only group

[The Emerald Dawn]

Israel shouldn't bother any more and go all in with troops and permanently occupy it. Hamas committed to ceasefire and broke it.

1) but the cease-fire never actually happened
2) hamas, the only group

Hamas committed to a cease-fire that it created, without notifying Egypt, basically scuttling their hopes to be impartial mediators, and then instead of waiting for Israel to commit to it, fired into Israel.

Now, I don't think Israel should invade, but lets not defend Hamas here. They're assholes too.

[Ralkovia]

Not understand what "You do not have a right to exist" means on the part of non-Muslim supporters of Palestine actually mean. It's about the annihilation of Israel and taking all the land back for the Palestinians. Hamas doesn't want the gaza strip, Hamas wants it all. Any peace they make is only to build up time till the next campaign.

[Divair]

They're assholes too.

This is the TL;DR version of the conflict that 99.9% of foreigners don't seem to understand. People are taking sides when both sides are shit.

[The Zeonic States]

Not understand what "You do not have a right to exist" means on the part of non-Muslim supporters of Palestine actually mean. It's about the annihilation of Israel and taking all the land back for the Palestinians. Hamas doesn't want the gaza strip, Hamas wants it all. Any peace they make is only to build up time till the next campaign.

Well that's sort of what happens when you occupy land you Don't own and Declare Yourself a Nation with Foreign Aid ._.

Just sayin Bro

[Souseiseki]

They're assholes too.

p. much

[The Emerald Dawn]

They're assholes too.

This is the TL;DR version of the conflict that 99.9% of foreigners don't seem to understand. People are taking sides when both sides are shit.

I take the civilian's side. Whatever will stop the civilian populace from receiving unwanted parcels via rocket courier is cool by me.

[Great Nepal]

Israel shouldn't bother any more and go all in with troops and permanently occupy it. Hamas committed to ceasefire and broke it.

The ceasefire never actually happened.

Yes, but didn't both sides commit to it and say it will come to effect before Hamas unilaterally withdrew by launching four rockets at Israel?

[The Zeonic States]

They're assholes too.

p. much

I pretty much dislike both but i am still sort of impressed Hamas is still firing rockets They either must be making those things which is pretty impressive manfactoring capabilities for a bombed out warzone or they are still rationing off the things and firing in bursts.

But Yeah both sides are assholes both clings to religion like a cat clings to a stick in a lake.

[Divair]

This is the TL;DR version of the conflict that 99.9% of foreigners don't seem to understand. People are taking sides when both sides are shit.

I take the civilian's side. Whatever will stop the civilian populace from receiving unwanted parcels via rocket courier is cool by me.

That's why I'm a huge supporter of Iron Dome.

[Khodoristan]

Not understand what "You do not have a right to exist" means on the part of non-Muslim supporters of Palestine actually mean. It's about the annihilation of Israel and taking all the land back for the Palestinians. Hamas doesn't want the gaza strip, Hamas wants it all. Any peace they make is only to build up time till the next campaign.

Well that's sort of what happens when you occupy land you Don't own and Declare Yourself a Nation with Foreign Aid ._.

Just sayin Bro

Are you American.

[Divair]

The ceasefire never actually happened.

Yes, but didn't both sides commit to it and say it will come to effect before Hamas unilaterally withdrew by launching four rockets at Israel?

No.