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Israeli "Operation Cloud Pillar" 2012

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The Zeonic States
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Postby The Zeonic States » Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:48 am

Souseiseki wrote:
Vazdania wrote:Unintentionally. They are attemtping to destroy only Hamas controlled houeses.

srael's highest-rating news programme, Channel Two News, has published a statement correcting false claims that rockets were fired from schools operated by the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees (UNRWA) during the Gaza war in 2008-2009. The statement makes clear that Israeli officials themselves acknowledged that such claims were false and that there was no evidence to support them.

During Operation "Cast Lead" Israeli forces repeatedly took over Palestinian homes in the Gaza Strip forcing families to stay in a ground-floor room while they used the rest of their house as a military base and sniper position – effectively using the families, both adults and children, as “human shields” and putting them at risk.

While soldiers wore protective body armour and helmets and shielded themselves behind sandbags as they fired from the houses, the Palestinian inhabitants of the houses had no such protection.

For the vast majority of homes destroyed, more than 3,000, and damaged, some 20,000, during Operation “Cast Lead”, the Israeli army has provided no evidence to substantiate its allegations that the houses were used as combat positions, as military command centres or to manufacture or store weapons – or for any other purpose which, under certain circumstances, would have made it lawful to target them.

Many of the houses, factories and farms were bulldozed and many of the houses were destroyed with Israeli anti-tank mines, as evident from the remains of the mines that littered the destroyed neighbourhoods, and from the pattern of destruction resulting from this method. Although designed to be used against tanks, these mines can also be set off remotely. Israeli forces have often used them to destroy Palestinian houses in the West Bank and at times also in Gaza.

The fact that the soldiers used this method – which required them to leave their tanks, walk between buildings and enter houses in order to place the explosive charges inside the houses along the supporting walls – indicates that they felt extremely confident that there were no Palestinian gunmen inside or around the houses. It also indicates their confidence that there were no tunnels under the houses which gunmen could use to capture them, and that the houses were not booby-trapped. Had the soldiers believed that they were in danger of being shot, blown up or captured, they would not have ventured out of their tanks to place the mines inside the houses.

Clearly marked ambulances with flashing emergency lights and paramedics wearing recognizable fluorescent vests were repeatedly fired upon as they attempted to rescue the wounded and collect the dead. Such attacks intensified after Israeli ground forces took positions inside Gaza on 3 January 2009. Palestinian ambulance crews tried as best they could to reach as many of the wounded and the dead as possible. They and the international volunteers who accompanied some of the ambulance crews risked their lives every day to carry out their mission.

From 3 January, when the Israeli ground incursion began, until the end of Operation “Cast Lead”, dozens of Israeli tanks took position in various locations inside the Gaza Strip, mostly in the east and north of Gaza. Tanks can fire high-explosive munitions, notably 120mm deep-penetration projectiles and guided shells with extreme precision, including while on the move and at moving targets, from a distance up to 3km from the target.

From these positions inside Gaza Israeli tanks often fired into Palestinian houses up to 2km or more away, killing scores of unarmed civilians, many of them children and women. In all the cases investigated by Amnesty International, the victims were neither caught in the crossfire of battles between soldiers and militants, nor were they shielding militants.


:clap: I wish i had known to cite such a thing; One of these days i will need to study Modern Middle eastern History
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Napkiraly
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Postby Napkiraly » Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:49 am

Divair wrote:
Vazdania wrote:

Its a fact that needs to be said over and over again. People supporting Hamas are supporting terrorists. Palestinians should move.


It seems like most people here don't even understand the nature of this region.

Are you really all that surprised though?

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Vazdania
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Postby Vazdania » Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:49 am

The Huskar Social Union wrote:
Vazdania wrote:Not matter of opinion. Its a matter of fact. If you support Hamas, you support Terrorists. Plain and Simple. Israel is the only functioning democracy in the Middle East and the other countries hate it for simply being Jewish.
No, matter of opinion. Also... Turkey doesn't count as a functioning Democracy then? And Turkey doesn't want to destroy Israel, it doesn't have the best relations with them but it is more friendly with the Israeli Nation.

Turkey is supporting Terrorists. Hamas is a group of Terrorists. Turkey doesn't count Israel as a functioning Democracy, but the United Nations does.
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Souseiseki
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Postby Souseiseki » Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:49 am

Vazdania wrote:
Souseiseki wrote:srael's highest-rating news programme, Channel Two News, has published a statement correcting false claims that rockets were fired from schools operated by the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees (UNRWA) during the Gaza war in 2008-2009. The statement makes clear that Israeli officials themselves acknowledged that such claims were false and that there was no evidence to support them.

During Operation "Cast Lead" Israeli forces repeatedly took over Palestinian homes in the Gaza Strip forcing families to stay in a ground-floor room while they used the rest of their house as a military base and sniper position – effectively using the families, both adults and children, as “human shields” and putting them at risk.

While soldiers wore protective body armour and helmets and shielded themselves behind sandbags as they fired from the houses, the Palestinian inhabitants of the houses had no such protection.

For the vast majority of homes destroyed, more than 3,000, and damaged, some 20,000, during Operation “Cast Lead”, the Israeli army has provided no evidence to substantiate its allegations that the houses were used as combat positions, as military command centres or to manufacture or store weapons – or for any other purpose which, under certain circumstances, would have made it lawful to target them.

Many of the houses, factories and farms were bulldozed and many of the houses were destroyed with Israeli anti-tank mines, as evident from the remains of the mines that littered the destroyed neighbourhoods, and from the pattern of destruction resulting from this method. Although designed to be used against tanks, these mines can also be set off remotely. Israeli forces have often used them to destroy Palestinian houses in the West Bank and at times also in Gaza.

The fact that the soldiers used this method – which required them to leave their tanks, walk between buildings and enter houses in order to place the explosive charges inside the houses along the supporting walls – indicates that they felt extremely confident that there were no Palestinian gunmen inside or around the houses. It also indicates their confidence that there were no tunnels under the houses which gunmen could use to capture them, and that the houses were not booby-trapped. Had the soldiers believed that they were in danger of being shot, blown up or captured, they would not have ventured out of their tanks to place the mines inside the houses.

Clearly marked ambulances with flashing emergency lights and paramedics wearing recognizable fluorescent vests were repeatedly fired upon as they attempted to rescue the wounded and collect the dead. Such attacks intensified after Israeli ground forces took positions inside Gaza on 3 January 2009. Palestinian ambulance crews tried as best they could to reach as many of the wounded and the dead as possible. They and the international volunteers who accompanied some of the ambulance crews risked their lives every day to carry out their mission.

From 3 January, when the Israeli ground incursion began, until the end of Operation “Cast Lead”, dozens of Israeli tanks took position in various locations inside the Gaza Strip, mostly in the east and north of Gaza. Tanks can fire high-explosive munitions, notably 120mm deep-penetration projectiles and guided shells with extreme precision, including while on the move and at moving targets, from a distance up to 3km from the target.

From these positions inside Gaza Israeli tanks often fired into Palestinian houses up to 2km or more away, killing scores of unarmed civilians, many of them children and women. In all the cases investigated by Amnesty International, the victims were neither caught in the crossfire of battles between soldiers and militants, nor were they shielding militants.

Cast Lead was to stop Hamas.

So, why did they fire on houses not related to Hamas or caught in the crossfire between Hamas and Israel? Why did they destroy thousands of houses and refuse to provide any evidence they were combat positions?
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Divair
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Postby Divair » Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:49 am

Napkiraly wrote:
Divair wrote:
It seems like most people here don't even understand the nature of this region.

Are you really all that surprised though?

No, not really. Every time I look at a thread like this, or I check the comments of some news article, it is filled with foreigners who have no fucking clue as to how this region works, both in terms of history and current events.

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The Huskar Social Union
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Postby The Huskar Social Union » Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:50 am

edit.
Last edited by The Huskar Social Union on Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Serrland
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Postby Serrland » Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:50 am

Vazdania wrote:
Serrland wrote:
Where? Neighboring countries aren't so keen on a huge influx of Palestinian refugees, given the problems that has historically caused...

If your so concerned about the well being of people, then you should be happy about taking in refugees, specifically if its from a country you hate.


Alright, you just used a throwaway line. I'll ask again.

Where?

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The Zeonic States
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Postby The Zeonic States » Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:51 am

Souseiseki wrote:
Vazdania wrote:Cast Lead was to stop Hamas.

So, why did they fire on houses not related to Hamas or caught in the crossfire between Hamas and Israel? Why did they destroy thousands of houses and refuse to provide any evidence they were combat positions?


Because they are used to being protected by the International community, They don't care if they violate international law; They are the Children of God!

:/ Honestly people call me a racist? I got plenty of reasons that have jack to do with religion and race.
Last edited by The Zeonic States on Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Vazdania
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Postby Vazdania » Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:52 am

Souseiseki wrote:
Vazdania wrote:Cast Lead was to stop Hamas.

So, why did they fire on houses not related to Hamas or caught in the crossfire between Hamas and Israel? Why did they destroy thousands of houses and refuse to provide any evidence they were combat positions?


Source?
NSG's Resident Constitutional Executive Monarchist!
We Monarchists Stand With The Morals Of The Past, As We Hatch Impossible Treasons Against The Present.

They Have No Voice; So I will Speak For Them. The Right To Life Is Fundamental To All Humans Regardless Of How Developed They Are. Pro-Woman. Pro-Child. Pro-Life.

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Souseiseki
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Postby Souseiseki » Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:54 am

Vazdania wrote:
Souseiseki wrote:So, why did they fire on houses not related to Hamas or caught in the crossfire between Hamas and Israel? Why did they destroy thousands of houses and refuse to provide any evidence they were combat positions?


Source?

i'm kinda curious if you read what i posted or just skipped it and left one line comment
ask moderation about reading serious moderation candidates TGs without telling them about it until afterwards and/or apparently refusing to confirm/deny the exact timeline of TG reading ~~~ i hope you never sent any of the recent mods or the ones that got really close anything personal!

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Vazdania
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Postby Vazdania » Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:54 am

Serrland wrote:
Vazdania wrote:If your so concerned about the well being of people, then you should be happy about taking in refugees, specifically if its from a country you hate.


Alright, you just used a throwaway line. I'll ask again.

Where?

Egypt, is a great place to move. You could move to Jordan, anywhere really.
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We Monarchists Stand With The Morals Of The Past, As We Hatch Impossible Treasons Against The Present.

They Have No Voice; So I will Speak For Them. The Right To Life Is Fundamental To All Humans Regardless Of How Developed They Are. Pro-Woman. Pro-Child. Pro-Life.

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Vazdania
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Postby Vazdania » Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:54 am

Souseiseki wrote:
Vazdania wrote:
Source?

i'm kinda curious if you read what i posted or just skipped it and left one line comment

skimmed it.... >.>
NSG's Resident Constitutional Executive Monarchist!
We Monarchists Stand With The Morals Of The Past, As We Hatch Impossible Treasons Against The Present.

They Have No Voice; So I will Speak For Them. The Right To Life Is Fundamental To All Humans Regardless Of How Developed They Are. Pro-Woman. Pro-Child. Pro-Life.

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The Huskar Social Union
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Postby The Huskar Social Union » Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:54 am

Vazdania wrote:
The Huskar Social Union wrote:No, matter of opinion. Also... Turkey doesn't count as a functioning Democracy then? And Turkey doesn't want to destroy Israel, it doesn't have the best relations with them but it is more friendly with the Israeli Nation.

Turkey is supporting Terrorists. Hamas is a group of Terrorists. Turkey doesn't count Israel as a functioning Democracy, but the United Nations does.

Yes it does, it recognized Israel as a country in 1949, So your wrong. And how does it support Terrorists?
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Napkiraly
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Postby Napkiraly » Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:55 am

Divair wrote:
Napkiraly wrote:Are you really all that surprised though?

No, not really. Every time I look at a thread like this, or I check the comments of some news article, it is filled with foreigners who have no fucking clue as to how this region works, both in terms of history and current events.

On behalf of my fellow foreigners, we are sorry for our ignorance. :P

I'm personally interested in going to both places to learn more about the people and all that jazz as well as the history surrounding the region. I mean, I know more than your average person about the region, but I'd never claim to know everything about this issue.

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The Huskar Social Union
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Postby The Huskar Social Union » Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:55 am

Vazdania wrote:
Souseiseki wrote:i'm kinda curious if you read what i posted or just skipped it and left one line comment

skimmed it.... >.>

So you didnt read it then. You instead realized it doesnt support your view so you ignored it.
Irish Nationalist from Belfast / Leftwing / Atheist / Alliance Party voter
"I never thought in terms of being a leader, i thought very simply in terms of helping people" - John Hume 1937 - 2020



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Divair
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Postby Divair » Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:56 am

Napkiraly wrote:
Divair wrote:No, not really. Every time I look at a thread like this, or I check the comments of some news article, it is filled with foreigners who have no fucking clue as to how this region works, both in terms of history and current events.

On behalf of my fellow foreigners, we are sorry for our ignorance. :P

I'm personally interested in going to both places to learn more about the people and all that jazz as well as the history surrounding the region. I mean, I know more than your average person about the region, but I'd never claim to know everything about this issue.

Visiting is a good way to learn about how this place works. Great place to visit, horrible place to live.

Foreigners who are willing to learn are cool, foreigners who aren't and just assume they know everything about what is going on are not ;)

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Vazdania
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Postby Vazdania » Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:56 am

The Huskar Social Union wrote:
Vazdania wrote:Turkey is supporting Terrorists. Hamas is a group of Terrorists. Turkey doesn't count Israel as a functioning Democracy, but the United Nations does.

Yes it does, it recognized Israel as a country in 1949, So your wrong. And how does it support Terrorists?

Clearly coming out against Israel in its pursuit to get rid of Hamas.
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We Monarchists Stand With The Morals Of The Past, As We Hatch Impossible Treasons Against The Present.

They Have No Voice; So I will Speak For Them. The Right To Life Is Fundamental To All Humans Regardless Of How Developed They Are. Pro-Woman. Pro-Child. Pro-Life.

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Vazdania
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Postby Vazdania » Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:57 am

The Huskar Social Union wrote:
Vazdania wrote:skimmed it.... >.>

So you didnt read it then. You instead realized it doesnt support your view so you ignored it.

no....i just skimmed it. I am not THAT biased. xD I of course am a stauch Zionist though.
NSG's Resident Constitutional Executive Monarchist!
We Monarchists Stand With The Morals Of The Past, As We Hatch Impossible Treasons Against The Present.

They Have No Voice; So I will Speak For Them. The Right To Life Is Fundamental To All Humans Regardless Of How Developed They Are. Pro-Woman. Pro-Child. Pro-Life.

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Camelza
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Postby Camelza » Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:57 am

Divair wrote:
Napkiraly wrote:Are you really all that surprised though?

No, not really. Every time I look at a thread like this, or I check the comments of some news article, it is filled with foreigners who have no fucking clue as to how this region works, both in terms of history and current events.

Don't pay much attention to them,"it's easy to to be brave behind a castle wall" as a Welsh proverb says.

How are things escalating? Did the IDF enter Gaza yet?

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Vazdania
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Postby Vazdania » Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:58 am

Divair wrote:
Napkiraly wrote:On behalf of my fellow foreigners, we are sorry for our ignorance. :P

I'm personally interested in going to both places to learn more about the people and all that jazz as well as the history surrounding the region. I mean, I know more than your average person about the region, but I'd never claim to know everything about this issue.

Visiting is a good way to learn about how this place works. Great place to visit, horrible place to live.

Foreigners who are willing to learn are cool, foreigners who aren't and just assume they know everything about what is going on are not ;)

going there this Summer, rocket fire or no rocket fire.
NSG's Resident Constitutional Executive Monarchist!
We Monarchists Stand With The Morals Of The Past, As We Hatch Impossible Treasons Against The Present.

They Have No Voice; So I will Speak For Them. The Right To Life Is Fundamental To All Humans Regardless Of How Developed They Are. Pro-Woman. Pro-Child. Pro-Life.

NSG's Newest Vegetarian!

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Souseiseki
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Founded: Apr 12, 2012
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Souseiseki » Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:58 am

Camelza wrote:
Divair wrote:No, not really. Every time I look at a thread like this, or I check the comments of some news article, it is filled with foreigners who have no fucking clue as to how this region works, both in terms of history and current events.

Don't pay much attention to them,"it's easy to to be brave behind a castle wall" as a Welsh proverb says.

How are things escalating? Did the IDF enter Gaza yet?

woah that's ironic
ask moderation about reading serious moderation candidates TGs without telling them about it until afterwards and/or apparently refusing to confirm/deny the exact timeline of TG reading ~~~ i hope you never sent any of the recent mods or the ones that got really close anything personal!

signature edit: confirmation has been received. they will explicitly do it before and without asking. they can look at TGs basically whenever they want so please keep this in mind when nominating people for moderator or TGing good posters/anyone!
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Napkiraly
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Founded: Aug 02, 2011
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Postby Napkiraly » Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:58 am

Divair wrote:
Napkiraly wrote:On behalf of my fellow foreigners, we are sorry for our ignorance. :P

I'm personally interested in going to both places to learn more about the people and all that jazz as well as the history surrounding the region. I mean, I know more than your average person about the region, but I'd never claim to know everything about this issue.

Visiting is a good way to learn about how this place works. Great place to visit, horrible place to live.

Foreigners who are willing to learn are cool, foreigners who aren't and just assume they know everything about what is going on are not ;)

Well I was thinking of going to work on a kibbutz this summer if I can't get a gig in Africa or find somewhere here in the UK. If not this summer, then probably within the next five or so, before my current passport expires and I'm unable to go to some other countries I'd like to visit.

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Camelza
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Postby Camelza » Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:59 am

Souseiseki wrote:
Camelza wrote:Don't pay much attention to them,"it's easy to to be brave behind a castle wall" as a Welsh proverb says.

How are things escalating? Did the IDF enter Gaza yet?

woah that's ironic

why?

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Divair
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Postby Divair » Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:59 am

Camelza wrote:
Divair wrote:No, not really. Every time I look at a thread like this, or I check the comments of some news article, it is filled with foreigners who have no fucking clue as to how this region works, both in terms of history and current events.

Don't pay much attention to them,"it's easy to to be brave behind a castle wall" as a Welsh proverb says.

How are things escalating? Did the IDF enter Gaza yet?

A ceasefire was reached.

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The Huskar Social Union
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Founded: Apr 04, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Huskar Social Union » Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:59 am

Vazdania wrote:
The Huskar Social Union wrote:Yes it does, it recognized Israel as a country in 1949, So your wrong. And how does it support Terrorists?

Clearly coming out against Israel in its pursuit to get rid of Hamas.

Turkey disagreed with Israel when it killed Innocent civilians, not Fighters of an armed group. in the six days war it abstained from calling Israel the aggressor, but disagreed with civilian losses amd collateral damage. And today, in the current situation as well. It wants an end to hostilities and actions against civilians.
Last edited by The Huskar Social Union on Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
Irish Nationalist from Belfast / Leftwing / Atheist / Alliance Party voter
"I never thought in terms of being a leader, i thought very simply in terms of helping people" - John Hume 1937 - 2020



I like Miniature painting, Tanks, English Gals, Video games and most importantly Cheese.


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