Secession Movement in the United States

[Arthurista]

Do the blue states want to be in the same country as those guns and religion people?

[Armenia Reborn]

Just imagine if insane neo-con right wing conservatives controlled the entire country, dictated theocratic laws upon your state through the federal government, and people in your state decided it was time to leave the union. Would you still be of the same nationalistic opinion?

If they won the election fair and square, then they have a legitimate mandate to rule the nation. Such crazies would never get elected tho so the point is moot.

The point is not moot. No one has a legitimate mandate to rule the nation regardless. You in your state have no right to dictate law upon me in my state of Illinois. However, because of the civil war and the amendments passed essentially illegally during reconstruction, you sincerely believe you have that right.

[Armenia Reborn]

Yep, Unity at ALL costs. If you try to leave its treason... Nationalism at it's finest. No wonder we think we know what is better for other countries than they do and that we are willing to use force to make our will reality.

Last time you tried, you failed. Are you sure you want to go down the same road?

Laughable.

What do you mean I failed? I'm not from the South, and I don't live in the south.

[The Emerald Dawn]

Well then, the entire world is one nation.

Quite. You can reductio ad absurdum it.
But nonetheless, that is the law.

The idea of law is, if nothing else, reductio ad absurdum made manifest.

[Samuraikoku]

No one has a legitimate mandate to rule the nation regardless.

Via vote, President Barack Obama has, since November 7th this year.

You in your state have no right to dictate law upon me in my state of Illinois. However, because of the civil war and the amendments passed essentially illegally during reconstruction, you sincerely believe you have that right.

Federal legislation. United States Congress. House of Representatives, and Senate.

[Samuraikoku]

What do you mean I failed? I'm not from the South, and I don't live in the south.

I see you advocating "YOU AIN'T DA BOSS OF ME! SECESSION!". You are, therefore, a secessionist.

[Maineiacs]

So NationStates, have you heard this? What do you think about it?

http://www.examiner.com/article/obama-secession-petitions-will-50-states-petition-the-president-to-secede

Good riddance to them.

[The Emerald Dawn]

What do you mean I failed? I'm not from the South, and I don't live in the south.

I see you advocating "YOU AIN'T DA BOSS OF ME! SECESSION!". You are, therefore, a secessionist.

Is he violent?

[Armenia Reborn]

No one has a legitimate mandate to rule the nation regardless.

Via vote, President Barack Obama has, since November 7th this year.

You in your state have no right to dictate law upon me in my state of Illinois. However, because of the civil war and the amendments passed essentially illegally during reconstruction, you sincerely believe you have that right.

Federal legislation. United States Congress. House of Representatives, and Senate.

You seem to have missed the point. Election of any individual doesn't determine mandate. If you believe it does, then we have a distinctly different view and concept of "mandate" when it comes to socio-political matters.

[Greed and Death]

On what basis do you make that claim?

"The Nation of Ohio" doesn't exist. "The State of Ohio" is on their seal and all their literature. Same with Texas. State != Nation.

There is a lot of Literature of 1836 to 1846 that defines Texas as a country.

[Samuraikoku]

Is he violent?

There's certain... eh... protocols, should he become so.

[Delanshar]

If they won the election fair and square, then they have a legitimate mandate to rule the nation. Such crazies would never get elected tho so the point is moot.

The point is not moot. No one has a legitimate mandate to rule the nation regardless. You in your state have no right to dictate law upon me in my state of Illinois. However, because of the civil war and the amendments passed essentially illegally during reconstruction, you sincerely believe you have that right.

I don't have the right to dictate anything to you. But the US government does. The President has FEDERAL power that transcends state lines. Even if you don't vote for him, if you participate in the election then you are giving your tacit consent to whoever gets elected. Ergo, the elected president DOES have a legitimate mandate to rule the entire nation, irrespective of the specific state, and any attempt at secession is illegal.

[Samuraikoku]

You seem to have missed the point. Election of any individual doesn't determine mandate. If you believe it does, then we have a distinctly different view and concept of "mandate" when it comes to socio-political matters.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/mandate

[Armenia Reborn]

What do you mean I failed? I'm not from the South, and I don't live in the south.

I see you advocating "YOU AIN'T DA BOSS OF ME! SECESSION!". You are, therefore, a secessionist.

I'm willing to let others secede, and not kill them for doing so. That's what I specifically am.

[Armenia Reborn]

You seem to have missed the point. Election of any individual doesn't determine mandate. If you believe it does, then we have a distinctly different view and concept of "mandate" when it comes to socio-political matters.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/mandate

Election of any individual doesn't determine mandate.

[Samuraikoku]

I'm willing to let others secede, and not kill them for doing so. That's what I specifically am.

That would make you oblivious to treason.

[Greed and Death]

Do the blue states want to be in the same country as those guns and religion people?

I often ask myself that. The same people most dead set against carving this country up to reflect current population divides are the same ones that cry the most when the republicans filibuster their favorite bill, or defund their organizations.

[Forsakia]

Americans (i.e. the fully representative sample of them I happen to recall from internet forums) always seem to want the self-determination/independence rules they advocate to be applied very very selectively.

[Norstal]

Do the blue states want to be in the same country as those guns and religion people?

The U.S looks more like this (it changes color too!):

http://www.princeton.edu/~rvdb/JAVA/ele ... iyear3.gif

So, no, I don't want to abandon my fellow liberals in those other states.

[Samuraikoku]

Election of any individual doesn't determine mandate.

It does. Social contract.

[Ostroeuropa]

Election of any individual doesn't determine mandate.

It does. Social contract.

Suppose they voted for a secessionist candidate?
Even if they lost.

My scenario for accepting their secession would be a landslide of secession candidates being elected into every office in an election, prompting the government to issue a referendum on independence, which they then win.

[Armenia Reborn]

Election of any individual doesn't determine mandate.

It does. Social contract.

I don't adhere to John Locke's philosophy of the social contract.

[Delanshar]

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/mandate

Election of any individual doesn't determine mandate.

It does in a democracy.

[Samuraikoku]

Suppose they voted for a secessionist candidate?
Even if they lost.

Texas vs. White. Gotta take it up with Congress. Good luck.

[The Emerald Dawn]

"The Nation of Ohio" doesn't exist. "The State of Ohio" is on their seal and all their literature. Same with Texas. State != Nation.

There is a lot of Literature of 1836 to 1846 that defines Texas as a country.

There's also a lot of literature from 1734 that defines Virginia as a colony. We've progressed some, thankfully.