Secession Movement in the United States

[Raeyh]

I really hope this would happen.

It's not going to, if only because people will not want to bother getting passports every time they cross states.

[SaintB]

What is it with the American social right and crying when democracy doesn't work their way?

[The Emerald Dawn]

What is it with the American social right and crying when democracy doesn't work their way?

It's natural. Think about it this way. When you take the chainsaw away from the three-year-old, do they not cry?

[Sushi ala Carte]

Hmmmm might have to arm up to protect myself from Republicans......

Waaay ahead of you.

As much as I suspect most of the people who signed these petitions did so because they were drunk/confused/joking and don't actually mean it, I do know a handful of people (real LIVE people, not internet "personalities") who think it is a good idea to secede or stage open rebellion. Far more people than I'm comfortable with.


And, for the record, if my beloved Colorado does secede, I hope we make passports seasonal, because way too many people from warmer climes just can't figure out how to drive in snow. (Looking at you, Texas.) So, best just to keep them out. Ehm, for their own safety, of course.

[New Dominion (Ancient)]

What is it with the American social right and crying when democracy doesn't work their way?

America is a Republic not a Democrasy

"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the REPUBLIC for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

[The Emerald Dawn]

What is it with the American social right and crying when democracy doesn't work their way?

America is a Republic not a Democrasy

"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the REPUBLIC for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

It's non-binding, and is not indicative of anything but America's penchant for jingoism.

[Ralkovia]

Do you really think the Confederacy would have a single friend, anywhere, among all the other nations on the planet? Which country, pray tell, do you think would be on your side, and why?

Israel for sure, granted they've never aided the U.S. outside of intel in anything so I highly doubt they'd give more to the South than they would a unified America. Though intel will be very crucial in a civil war

In
1952, as the Cold War got underway, U.S. Army Chief-of-Staff Omar
Bradley called for the integration of Israel into the Mediterranean
Basin area, in light of the country's location and unique
capabilities.

• In
1967, Israel defeated a radical Arab, pro-Soviet offensive, which
threatened to bring about the collapse of pro-American Arab regimes
and disrupt oil supply, thus severely undermining the American
standard of living. The U.S. gained valuable military information
from analysis of captured Soviet equipment, including SAM-2, SAM-12,
Mig-21 aircraft, and Soviet T-54 battle tanks. In fact, Israel gave
an entire squadron of MiG-21s to the U.S. which was dubbed the “Top
Gun” squadron and used by the U.S. Air and Naval forces for
training purposes. Since 1967, Israel transferred captured Soviet
weapons systems to the U.S. Pentagon after every conflict: 1967,
1967-70, 1973, 1982, 1990 (Scud remnants from the Gulf War), and 2006
(remnants of Iranian supplied missiles.

• In
the 1967-1970 1000 Day War of Attrition, the IDF, armed with American
aircraft successfully defeated a Soviet-supplied air defense system,
pointing out the deficiencies in Soviet air-defense doctrine to US
defense planners. Israel shared captured military equipment include
P-2 radar and Soviet tanks with the U.S. military.

• In
1970, Israel brought about the withdrawal of Syrian forces from
Jordan, at a time when the U.S. was tied up by wars in Vietnam, Laos,
and Cambodia, thus preventing the fall of the pro-American Hashemite
regime and the installation of a pro-Soviet radical Palestinian
terrorist regime.

• In
1973 – thanks to U.S. re-supply, but without U.S. forces, Israel
defeated Soviet-trained and equipped Egyptian and Syrian forces.
Israel again shared captured Soviet equipment, including T-62 battle
tanks with the U.S. Israel emerged as the only reliable ally where
U.S. troops could land, where U.S. equipment can be pre-positioned,
where the U.S. has friendly port facilities (in Haifa and Ashdod) in
the entire Middle East region. This too has saved the U.S. billions
of dollars.

• 1970s
- Joseph Sisco, a former U.S. Assistant Secretary of State, assistant
to Secretary of State Henry Kissinger during the latter’s shuttle
diplomacy, told the Israeli author and military expert, Shmuel Katz:
“I want to assure you, Mr. Katz, that if we were not getting full
value for our money, you would not get a cent from us.”

• In
1981, Israel bombed the Iraqi nuclear reactor at Osirak, delaying
Saddam Hussein’s quest for nuclear weapons. It thus provided the
U.S. with the option of engaging in conventional wars with Iraq in
1991 and 2003.

• The
vice president General Dynamics which produces the F16 fighter jets
has stated that Israel is responsible for 600 improvements in the
plane's systems, modifications estimated to be worth billions of
dollars, which spared dozens of research and development years.

• In
1982, Israel destroyed Soviet anti-aircraft batteries in Lebanon that
were considered immune to American weapons. Israel promptly shared
the operation's lessons, estimated to be worth billions of dollars.

• Former
Secretary of State and NATO forces commander Alexander Haig has
stated that he is pro-Israeli because Israel is the largest American
aircraft carrier in the world that cannot be sunk, does not carry
even one American soldier, and is located in a critical region for
American national security.

• During
the first Gulf War 1991, Israel provided invaluable intelligence, an
umbrella of air cover for military cargo, and had personnel planted
in the Iraqi desert to pick up downed American pilots.

• General
George Keegan, former head of U.S. Air Force Intelligence has
publicly declared that “Israel is worth five CIA’s.” He further
stated that between 1974 and 1990, Israel received $18.3 billion in
U.S. military grants. During the same period Israel provided the U.S.
with $50-80 billion in intelligence, research and development
savings, and Soviet weapons systems captured and transferred to the
U.S.

• In
2005, Israel provided America with the world's most extensive
experience in homeland defense and warfare against suicide bombers
and car bombs. American soldiers train in IDF facilities and
Israeli-made drones fly above the "Sunni Triangle" in Iraq,
as well as in Afghanistan, providing U.S. Marines with vital
intelligence.

• In
September 2007, the IAF destroyed a Syrian-North Korean nuclear
plant, extending the US’s strategic arm. It provided the US with
vital information on Russian air defense systems, which are also
employed by Iran. It bolstered the US posture of deterrence and
refuted the claim that US-Israel relations have been shaped by
political expediency.

• In
2009, Israel shares with the US its battle-tested experience in
combating Palestinian and Hizbullah terrorism, which are the role
model of anti-US Islamic terrorism in Iraq and Afghanistan. US GIs
benefit from Israel’s battle tactics against car bombs, improvised
explosive devices and homicide bombing. An Israel-like ally in the
Persian Gulf would have spared the need to dispatch US troops to
Iraq, Kuwait and Saudi Arabia.

• Israel
has relayed to the U.S. lessons of battle (during the Cold War –
Soviet military doctrine) and counter-terrorism (including aircraft
security, homicide-suicide bombings) which reduce American losses in
Iraq and Afghanistan, prevent attacks on U.S. soil, upgrade American
weapons, and contribute to the U.S. economy. Without Israel, the U.S.
would have been forced to deploy tens of thousands of American troops
in the eastern Mediterranean Basin, at a cost of billions of dollars
a year.

• Senator
Daniel Inouye has recently (2005) argued Israeli information
regarding Soviet arms saved the U.S. billions of dollars. The
contribution made by Israeli intelligence to America is greater than
that provided by all NATO countries combined, he said.

• Israel's
utilization of American arms guarantees its existence, but at the
same time gives U.S. military industries, such as Boeing and General
Dynamics, a competitive edge compared to European industries, while
also boosting American military production, producing American jobs,
and improving America's national security. Japan and South Korea, for
example, preferred the "Hawkeye" spy plane and the MD-500
chopper, both purchased and upgraded by Israel, over comparable
British and French aircraft.

• The
American industries want U.S. aid to Israel to continue. The bulk of
the $1.8 billion in annual U.S. military aid to Israel must be spent
in the United States. That provides jobs for some 50,000 U.S.
workers. Virtually all of the $1.2 billion in annual economic aid
goes for repayment of debt to the United States, incurred from
military purchases dating back many years. This debt is now close to
being liquidated.

• Innovative
Israeli technologies have a similar effect on American civilian,
including computer-related industries and agricultural industries,
which view Israel as a successful research and development site.

• Members
of the U.S. Congress leaders, then Vice President Dick Cheney, and
then Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld are aware of Israel's
unique contribution to U.S. interests. But, in fact, they all wonder
why the post-1993 Israel does not use its impressive contribution as
leverage, in sharp contrast to the pre-1993 Israel.

• In
contrast to our commitments to Korea, Japan, Germany and other parts
of the world, not a single American serviceperson needs to be
stationed in Israel. Considering that the cost of one serviceperson
per year – including backup and infrastructure – is estimated to
be about $200,000 per year, and assuming a minimum contingent of
25,000 troops, the cost savings to the United States on that score
alone are on the order of $5 billion a year.

[Inyourfaceistan]

Israel for sure, granted they've never aided the U.S. outside of intel in anything so I highly doubt they'd give more to the South than they would a unified America. Though intel will be very crucial in a civil war

In
1952, as the Cold War got underway, U.S. Army Chief-of-Staff Omar
Bradley called for the integration of Israel into the Mediterranean
Basin area, in light of the country's location and unique
capabilities.

• In
1967, Israel defeated a radical Arab, pro-Soviet offensive, which
threatened to bring about the collapse of pro-American Arab regimes
and disrupt oil supply, thus severely undermining the American
standard of living. The U.S. gained valuable military information
from analysis of captured Soviet equipment, including SAM-2, SAM-12,
Mig-21 aircraft, and Soviet T-54 battle tanks. In fact, Israel gave
an entire squadron of MiG-21s to the U.S. which was dubbed the “Top
Gun” squadron and used by the U.S. Air and Naval forces for
training purposes. Since 1967, Israel transferred captured Soviet
weapons systems to the U.S. Pentagon after every conflict: 1967,
1967-70, 1973, 1982, 1990 (Scud remnants from the Gulf War), and 2006
(remnants of Iranian supplied missiles.

• In
the 1967-1970 1000 Day War of Attrition, the IDF, armed with American
aircraft successfully defeated a Soviet-supplied air defense system,
pointing out the deficiencies in Soviet air-defense doctrine to US
defense planners. Israel shared captured military equipment include
P-2 radar and Soviet tanks with the U.S. military.

• In
1970, Israel brought about the withdrawal of Syrian forces from
Jordan, at a time when the U.S. was tied up by wars in Vietnam, Laos,
and Cambodia, thus preventing the fall of the pro-American Hashemite
regime and the installation of a pro-Soviet radical Palestinian
terrorist regime.

• In
1973 – thanks to U.S. re-supply, but without U.S. forces, Israel
defeated Soviet-trained and equipped Egyptian and Syrian forces.
Israel again shared captured Soviet equipment, including T-62 battle
tanks with the U.S. Israel emerged as the only reliable ally where
U.S. troops could land, where U.S. equipment can be pre-positioned,
where the U.S. has friendly port facilities (in Haifa and Ashdod) in
the entire Middle East region. This too has saved the U.S. billions
of dollars.

• 1970s
- Joseph Sisco, a former U.S. Assistant Secretary of State, assistant
to Secretary of State Henry Kissinger during the latter’s shuttle
diplomacy, told the Israeli author and military expert, Shmuel Katz:
“I want to assure you, Mr. Katz, that if we were not getting full
value for our money, you would not get a cent from us.”

• In
1981, Israel bombed the Iraqi nuclear reactor at Osirak, delaying
Saddam Hussein’s quest for nuclear weapons. It thus provided the
U.S. with the option of engaging in conventional wars with Iraq in
1991 and 2003.

• The
vice president General Dynamics which produces the F16 fighter jets
has stated that Israel is responsible for 600 improvements in the
plane's systems, modifications estimated to be worth billions of
dollars, which spared dozens of research and development years.

• In
1982, Israel destroyed Soviet anti-aircraft batteries in Lebanon that
were considered immune to American weapons. Israel promptly shared
the operation's lessons, estimated to be worth billions of dollars.

• Former
Secretary of State and NATO forces commander Alexander Haig has
stated that he is pro-Israeli because Israel is the largest American
aircraft carrier in the world that cannot be sunk, does not carry
even one American soldier, and is located in a critical region for
American national security.

• During
the first Gulf War 1991, Israel provided invaluable intelligence, an
umbrella of air cover for military cargo, and had personnel planted
in the Iraqi desert to pick up downed American pilots.

• General
George Keegan, former head of U.S. Air Force Intelligence has
publicly declared that “Israel is worth five CIA’s.” He further
stated that between 1974 and 1990, Israel received $18.3 billion in
U.S. military grants. During the same period Israel provided the U.S.
with $50-80 billion in intelligence, research and development
savings, and Soviet weapons systems captured and transferred to the
U.S.

• In
2005, Israel provided America with the world's most extensive
experience in homeland defense and warfare against suicide bombers
and car bombs. American soldiers train in IDF facilities and
Israeli-made drones fly above the "Sunni Triangle" in Iraq,
as well as in Afghanistan, providing U.S. Marines with vital
intelligence.

• In
September 2007, the IAF destroyed a Syrian-North Korean nuclear
plant, extending the US’s strategic arm. It provided the US with
vital information on Russian air defense systems, which are also
employed by Iran. It bolstered the US posture of deterrence and
refuted the claim that US-Israel relations have been shaped by
political expediency.

• In
2009, Israel shares with the US its battle-tested experience in
combating Palestinian and Hizbullah terrorism, which are the role
model of anti-US Islamic terrorism in Iraq and Afghanistan. US GIs
benefit from Israel’s battle tactics against car bombs, improvised
explosive devices and homicide bombing. An Israel-like ally in the
Persian Gulf would have spared the need to dispatch US troops to
Iraq, Kuwait and Saudi Arabia.

• Israel
has relayed to the U.S. lessons of battle (during the Cold War –
Soviet military doctrine) and counter-terrorism (including aircraft
security, homicide-suicide bombings) which reduce American losses in
Iraq and Afghanistan, prevent attacks on U.S. soil, upgrade American
weapons, and contribute to the U.S. economy. Without Israel, the U.S.
would have been forced to deploy tens of thousands of American troops
in the eastern Mediterranean Basin, at a cost of billions of dollars
a year.

• Senator
Daniel Inouye has recently (2005) argued Israeli information
regarding Soviet arms saved the U.S. billions of dollars. The
contribution made by Israeli intelligence to America is greater than
that provided by all NATO countries combined, he said.

• Israel's
utilization of American arms guarantees its existence, but at the
same time gives U.S. military industries, such as Boeing and General
Dynamics, a competitive edge compared to European industries, while
also boosting American military production, producing American jobs,
and improving America's national security. Japan and South Korea, for
example, preferred the "Hawkeye" spy plane and the MD-500
chopper, both purchased and upgraded by Israel, over comparable
British and French aircraft.

• The
American industries want U.S. aid to Israel to continue. The bulk of
the $1.8 billion in annual U.S. military aid to Israel must be spent
in the United States. That provides jobs for some 50,000 U.S.
workers. Virtually all of the $1.2 billion in annual economic aid
goes for repayment of debt to the United States, incurred from
military purchases dating back many years. This debt is now close to
being liquidated.

• Innovative
Israeli technologies have a similar effect on American civilian,
including computer-related industries and agricultural industries,
which view Israel as a successful research and development site.

• Members
of the U.S. Congress leaders, then Vice President Dick Cheney, and
then Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld are aware of Israel's
unique contribution to U.S. interests. But, in fact, they all wonder
why the post-1993 Israel does not use its impressive contribution as
leverage, in sharp contrast to the pre-1993 Israel.

• In
contrast to our commitments to Korea, Japan, Germany and other parts
of the world, not a single American serviceperson needs to be
stationed in Israel. Considering that the cost of one serviceperson
per year – including backup and infrastructure – is estimated to
be about $200,000 per year, and assuming a minimum contingent of
25,000 troops, the cost savings to the United States on that score
alone are on the order of $5 billion a year.

Totally off-topic but I freaken love Israel.

[New West Guiana]

"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the REPUBLIC for which it stands,one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

Fixed. After all the person who wrote it was one of those "evil socialists".

[The Old South]

In
1952, as the Cold War got underway, U.S. Army Chief-of-Staff Omar
Bradley called for the integration of Israel into the Mediterranean
Basin area, in light of the country's location and unique
capabilities.

• In
1967, Israel defeated a radical Arab, pro-Soviet offensive, which
threatened to bring about the collapse of pro-American Arab regimes
and disrupt oil supply, thus severely undermining the American
standard of living. The U.S. gained valuable military information
from analysis of captured Soviet equipment, including SAM-2, SAM-12,
Mig-21 aircraft, and Soviet T-54 battle tanks. In fact, Israel gave
an entire squadron of MiG-21s to the U.S. which was dubbed the “Top
Gun” squadron and used by the U.S. Air and Naval forces for
training purposes. Since 1967, Israel transferred captured Soviet
weapons systems to the U.S. Pentagon after every conflict: 1967,
1967-70, 1973, 1982, 1990 (Scud remnants from the Gulf War), and 2006
(remnants of Iranian supplied missiles.

• In
the 1967-1970 1000 Day War of Attrition, the IDF, armed with American
aircraft successfully defeated a Soviet-supplied air defense system,
pointing out the deficiencies in Soviet air-defense doctrine to US
defense planners. Israel shared captured military equipment include
P-2 radar and Soviet tanks with the U.S. military.

• In
1970, Israel brought about the withdrawal of Syrian forces from
Jordan, at a time when the U.S. was tied up by wars in Vietnam, Laos,
and Cambodia, thus preventing the fall of the pro-American Hashemite
regime and the installation of a pro-Soviet radical Palestinian
terrorist regime.

• In
1973 – thanks to U.S. re-supply, but without U.S. forces, Israel
defeated Soviet-trained and equipped Egyptian and Syrian forces.
Israel again shared captured Soviet equipment, including T-62 battle
tanks with the U.S. Israel emerged as the only reliable ally where
U.S. troops could land, where U.S. equipment can be pre-positioned,
where the U.S. has friendly port facilities (in Haifa and Ashdod) in
the entire Middle East region. This too has saved the U.S. billions
of dollars.

• 1970s
- Joseph Sisco, a former U.S. Assistant Secretary of State, assistant
to Secretary of State Henry Kissinger during the latter’s shuttle
diplomacy, told the Israeli author and military expert, Shmuel Katz:
“I want to assure you, Mr. Katz, that if we were not getting full
value for our money, you would not get a cent from us.”

• In
1981, Israel bombed the Iraqi nuclear reactor at Osirak, delaying
Saddam Hussein’s quest for nuclear weapons. It thus provided the
U.S. with the option of engaging in conventional wars with Iraq in
1991 and 2003.

• The
vice president General Dynamics which produces the F16 fighter jets
has stated that Israel is responsible for 600 improvements in the
plane's systems, modifications estimated to be worth billions of
dollars, which spared dozens of research and development years.

• In
1982, Israel destroyed Soviet anti-aircraft batteries in Lebanon that
were considered immune to American weapons. Israel promptly shared
the operation's lessons, estimated to be worth billions of dollars.

• Former
Secretary of State and NATO forces commander Alexander Haig has
stated that he is pro-Israeli because Israel is the largest American
aircraft carrier in the world that cannot be sunk, does not carry
even one American soldier, and is located in a critical region for
American national security.

• During
the first Gulf War 1991, Israel provided invaluable intelligence, an
umbrella of air cover for military cargo, and had personnel planted
in the Iraqi desert to pick up downed American pilots.

• General
George Keegan, former head of U.S. Air Force Intelligence has
publicly declared that “Israel is worth five CIA’s.” He further
stated that between 1974 and 1990, Israel received $18.3 billion in
U.S. military grants. During the same period Israel provided the U.S.
with $50-80 billion in intelligence, research and development
savings, and Soviet weapons systems captured and transferred to the
U.S.

• In
2005, Israel provided America with the world's most extensive
experience in homeland defense and warfare against suicide bombers
and car bombs. American soldiers train in IDF facilities and
Israeli-made drones fly above the "Sunni Triangle" in Iraq,
as well as in Afghanistan, providing U.S. Marines with vital
intelligence.

• In
September 2007, the IAF destroyed a Syrian-North Korean nuclear
plant, extending the US’s strategic arm. It provided the US with
vital information on Russian air defense systems, which are also
employed by Iran. It bolstered the US posture of deterrence and
refuted the claim that US-Israel relations have been shaped by
political expediency.

• In
2009, Israel shares with the US its battle-tested experience in
combating Palestinian and Hizbullah terrorism, which are the role
model of anti-US Islamic terrorism in Iraq and Afghanistan. US GIs
benefit from Israel’s battle tactics against car bombs, improvised
explosive devices and homicide bombing. An Israel-like ally in the
Persian Gulf would have spared the need to dispatch US troops to
Iraq, Kuwait and Saudi Arabia.

• Israel
has relayed to the U.S. lessons of battle (during the Cold War –
Soviet military doctrine) and counter-terrorism (including aircraft
security, homicide-suicide bombings) which reduce American losses in
Iraq and Afghanistan, prevent attacks on U.S. soil, upgrade American
weapons, and contribute to the U.S. economy. Without Israel, the U.S.
would have been forced to deploy tens of thousands of American troops
in the eastern Mediterranean Basin, at a cost of billions of dollars
a year.

• Senator
Daniel Inouye has recently (2005) argued Israeli information
regarding Soviet arms saved the U.S. billions of dollars. The
contribution made by Israeli intelligence to America is greater than
that provided by all NATO countries combined, he said.

• Israel's
utilization of American arms guarantees its existence, but at the
same time gives U.S. military industries, such as Boeing and General
Dynamics, a competitive edge compared to European industries, while
also boosting American military production, producing American jobs,
and improving America's national security. Japan and South Korea, for
example, preferred the "Hawkeye" spy plane and the MD-500
chopper, both purchased and upgraded by Israel, over comparable
British and French aircraft.

• The
American industries want U.S. aid to Israel to continue. The bulk of
the $1.8 billion in annual U.S. military aid to Israel must be spent
in the United States. That provides jobs for some 50,000 U.S.
workers. Virtually all of the $1.2 billion in annual economic aid
goes for repayment of debt to the United States, incurred from
military purchases dating back many years. This debt is now close to
being liquidated.

• Innovative
Israeli technologies have a similar effect on American civilian,
including computer-related industries and agricultural industries,
which view Israel as a successful research and development site.

• Members
of the U.S. Congress leaders, then Vice President Dick Cheney, and
then Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld are aware of Israel's
unique contribution to U.S. interests. But, in fact, they all wonder
why the post-1993 Israel does not use its impressive contribution as
leverage, in sharp contrast to the pre-1993 Israel.

• In
contrast to our commitments to Korea, Japan, Germany and other parts
of the world, not a single American serviceperson needs to be
stationed in Israel. Considering that the cost of one serviceperson
per year – including backup and infrastructure – is estimated to
be about $200,000 per year, and assuming a minimum contingent of
25,000 troops, the cost savings to the United States on that score
alone are on the order of $5 billion a year.

Totally off-topic but I freaken love Israel.

I know, they do apartheid classy.

[Minoriteeburg]

Texas vs. White. Articles of Confederation --> Constitution of the United States, indissoluble. Barring that, take it up with Congress. Good luck.

^This.


This is laughable at best.

But I would however sign up for this petition...

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/deport-everyone-signed-petition-withdraw-their-state-united-states-america/dmQl1bXL

Because I don't back out of my country if I don't like who is leading it....

[Nidaria]

What is it with the American social right and crying when democracy doesn't work their way?

It is not just the social right, everyone with differing opinions, including the far left, want to split off.

[Farnhamia]

What is it with the American social right and crying when democracy doesn't work their way?

It is not just the social right, everyone with differing opinions, including the far left, want to split off.

This is a bit of an exaggeration, don't you think?

[SaintB]

What is it with the American social right and crying when democracy doesn't work their way?

America is a Republic not a Democrasy

"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the REPUBLIC for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

The nation is a republic yes but the representatives are picked in a DEMOCRATIC fashion. Democratic fashion being voting and all.

[Armenia Reborn]

Wow, some of the comments I'm seeing....

So, let me get this straight. If a state decides to succeed from the Union, we are gonna go down there and force them at gunpoint to rejoin or die? I forgot how nationalistic we've become over the last 200 years: Unity at all costs. What is this, 1848?

Guess some people on here really want to impose their morality on the rest of the populace of the U.S. by any means necessary. Yep, tolerance is dead.

[Minoriteeburg]

It is not just the social right, everyone with differing opinions, including the far left, want to split off.

This is a bit of an exaggeration, don't you think?

Sure is.

If states didn't secede during the 8 years of Bush (one of the most (if not the most) unpopular presidents in US History, they won't under Obama.

I am really starting to get tired of people hating on Obama so much. I am not his biggest fan, but this country has seen far worse in leadership than him.

[Neo Art]

So, let me get this straight. If a state decides to succeed from the Union, we are gonna go down there and force them at gunpoint to rejoin or die?

We tend to do that when people break the law. Make them stop what they're doing. By force, if necessary. Why should we treat secession as different from any other crime? "I don't want to be in this country anymore" is no more a valid reason to break the law than "I want your TV" is.

[Farnhamia]

Wow, some of the comments I'm seeing....

So, let me get this straight. If a state decides to succeed from the Union, we are gonna go down there and force them at gunpoint to rejoin or die? I forgot how nationalistic we've become over the last 200 years: Unity at all costs. What is this, 1848?

Guess some people on here really want to impose their morality on the rest of the populace of the U.S. by any means necessary. Yep, tolerance is dead.

There is no procedure for a state to leave the Union. Sorry, there isn't. The Union is perpetual and has been since the Articles of Confederation. All states that were created or joined since the passage of the Constitution knew, or should have known this.

[Laerod]

What is it with the American social right and crying when democracy doesn't work their way?

America is a Republic not a Democrasy

"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the REPUBLIC for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

That's about as relevant as the "Democratic People's Republic" in Democratic People's Republic of Korea. Just because people say something doesn't mean it's true, particularly if it's a non-biding recital.

[Ostroeuropa]

So, let me get this straight. If a state decides to succeed from the Union, we are gonna go down there and force them at gunpoint to rejoin or die?

We tend to do that when people break the law. Make them stop what they're doing. By force, if necessary. Why should we treat secession as different from any other crime? "I don't want to be in this country anymore" is no more a valid reason to break the law than "I want your TV" is.

Just asking, are you also against all independence movements?
Scottish/Irish etc.

[Imperial--japan]

Did some thinking about it. If this did happen I would probably move to a state such as California or new york.

[Imperial--japan]

This is a bit of an exaggeration, don't you think?

Sure is.

If states didn't secede during the 8 years of Bush (one of the most (if not the most) unpopular presidents in US History, they won't under Obama.

I am really starting to get tired of people hating on Obama so much. I am not his biggest fan, but this country has seen far worse in leadership than him.

Nixon and Polk.

[Armenia Reborn]

Wow, some of the comments I'm seeing....

So, let me get this straight. If a state decides to succeed from the Union, we are gonna go down there and force them at gunpoint to rejoin or die? I forgot how nationalistic we've become over the last 200 years: Unity at all costs. What is this, 1848?

Guess some people on here really want to impose their morality on the rest of the populace of the U.S. by any means necessary. Yep, tolerance is dead.

There is no procedure for a state to leave the Union. Sorry, there isn't. The Union is perpetual and has been since the Articles of Confederation. All states that were created or joined since the passage of the Constitution knew, or should have known this.

I'm not sure why that should matter. I don't see why the Union should be treated like it's the Hotel California.

So, let me get this straight. If a state decides to succeed from the Union, we are gonna go down there and force them at gunpoint to rejoin or die?

We tend to do that when people break the law. Make them stop what they're doing. By force, if necessary. Why should we treat secession as different from any other crime? "I don't want to be in this country anymore" is no more a valid reason to break the law than "I want your TV" is.

So you are willing to use force/kill people, if they refuse to be in the Union? Are you willing to pull the trigger, or just to push the button for the drone strike? Are you sure you are willing to kill people to enforce your morality/law upon them?

[The Emerald Dawn]

We tend to do that when people break the law. Make them stop what they're doing. By force, if necessary. Why should we treat secession as different from any other crime? "I don't want to be in this country anymore" is no more a valid reason to break the law than "I want your TV" is.

Just asking, are you also against all independence movements?
Scottish/Irish etc.

If there are methods by which they can vote for independence and in doing so gain sufficient majority to have a valid point, absolutely. Go Green!

There aren't any methods, barring changing the constitution, in the US. The two aren't analogous.

[Farnhamia]

We tend to do that when people break the law. Make them stop what they're doing. By force, if necessary. Why should we treat secession as different from any other crime? "I don't want to be in this country anymore" is no more a valid reason to break the law than "I want your TV" is.

Just asking, are you also against all independence movements?
Scottish/Irish etc.

These petitions aren't from people who want to be independent, they're from people who are butt-hurt because their candidate didn't win the presidential election. They aren't being oppressed, not even slightly.