Secession Movement in the United States

[Seleucas]

Why bother? You will probably complain if we stay in, anyway; if the South goes, at least we get what we want.

What's this "we" crap?

We in Woffordia's post = Northern folks who don't want the South to go.

We in my post = Southern folks who want to secede.

Think that should be pretty clear.

[Kitrium]

It technically it is constitutional to secede as there is no law in the constitution giving the Federal Government the power to ban it.

Ninth Amendment – Protection of rights not specifically enumerated in the Constitution.
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Tenth Amendment – Powers of States and people.
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

The courts are only supposed to determine if laws are within the bounds of the constitution, not tell us as a nation what interpretation of it we must abide by. It the power of something is neither granted nor banned, it is reserved by the states or to the people of the states.

I believe this secessionist movement is more than just Obama being re-elected, it's also the fact that people see that it's just business as usual in Washington and that nothing will ever really change in the interest of the states or of the people. Basically it's just getting close to a breaking point.

That or the movement will just die out over time and this in reality is not a big deal.

[Seleucas]

It technically it is constitutional to secede as there is no law in the constitution giving the Federal Government the power to ban it.

Ninth Amendment – Protection of rights not specifically enumerated in the Constitution.
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Tenth Amendment – Powers of States and people.
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

The courts are only supposed to determine if laws are within the bounds of the constitution, not tell us as a nation what interpretation of it we must abide by. It the power of something is neither granted nor banned, it is reserved by the states or to the people of the states.

I believe this secessionist movement is more than just Obama being re-elected, it's also the fact that people see that it's just business as usual in Washington and that nothing will ever really change in the interest of the states or of the people.

I think it's more logical to say that a government that had to secede in order to create itself cannot really condemn the secession of its components.

[Seperates]

It technically it is constitutional to secede as there is no law in the constitution giving the Federal Government the power to ban it.

Ninth Amendment – Protection of rights not specifically enumerated in the Constitution.
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Tenth Amendment – Powers of States and people.
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

The courts are only supposed to determine if laws are within the bounds of the constitution, not tell us as a nation what interpretation of it we must abide by. It the power of something is neither granted nor banned, it is reserved by the states or to the people of the states.

I believe this secessionist movement is more than just Obama being re-elected, it's also the fact that people see that it's just business as usual in Washington and that nothing will ever really change in the interest of the states or of the people.

I think it's more logical to say that a government that had to secede in order to create itself cannot really condemn the secession of its components.

I just think it's funny that the South thinks it can sustain itself when they recieve the most federal money out of all the other states.

[Kitrium]

It technically it is constitutional to secede as there is no law in the constitution giving the Federal Government the power to ban it.

Ninth Amendment – Protection of rights not specifically enumerated in the Constitution.
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Tenth Amendment – Powers of States and people.
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

The courts are only supposed to determine if laws are within the bounds of the constitution, not tell us as a nation what interpretation of it we must abide by. It the power of something is neither granted nor banned, it is reserved by the states or to the people of the states.

I believe this secessionist movement is more than just Obama being re-elected, it's also the fact that people see that it's just business as usual in Washington and that nothing will ever really change in the interest of the states or of the people.

I think it's more logical to say that a government that had to secede in order to create itself cannot really condemn the secession of its components.

Sure it can, it has the firepower to do so.

I just think it's funny that the South thinks it can sustain itself when they receive the most federal money out of all the other states.

When the USS Federal Government sinks, what do you think will happen to those who rely on it? They'll drown in the sea of fiscal debt. I know, horrible example. But eventually things will come to pass where the Federal Government will collapse due to the lack of controlling it's fiscal priorities, irregardless of who has controls of the leviathan, we will be paying the price for the mistakes of others.

[Seperates]

I think it's more logical to say that a government that had to secede in order to create itself cannot really condemn the secession of its components.

Sure it can, it has the firepower to do so.

I just think it's funny that the South thinks it can sustain itself when they receive the most federal money out of all the other states.

When the USS Federal Government sinks, what do you think will happen to those who rely on it? They'll drown in the sea of fiscal debt. I know, horrible example. But eventually things will come to pass where the Federal Government will collapse due to the lack of controlling it's fiscal priorities, irregardless of who has controls of the leviathan, we will be paying the price for the mistakes of others.

Sure it will. And I will be long dead when that day comes.

[Defensor]

Not sure about the other states and their economical statuses or their military numbers, however Texas is a part of the Union by a deal which can be broken legally. Also, their economy is stable in comparison to other neighboring states, and their national guard is amoungst the largest in the nation.

Not saying it's the right thing to do, or the wrong thing...just saying that they have the ability if executed with a bit of fore-thought

[DarkSith]

I Refuse To Recognize Obama As President So i Fully Support This

And Also its Amuzing that my state is Leading the Revolution

Seeing how proficient you are with your own native language, I am amused at you.

Also, your flag hints strongly of your political beliefs, of which the less said, the better.

But the world doesn't have to be defined by continents. If any North American Union was formed, I'd oppose and resist it until I die.

America is for the Americans, not the Canadians and Mexicans.

If by "America" you mean your country, and only that, you are welcome to it...

But if you hold the original meaning of "the American continent for the US citizens", then mister, you are disregarding the rest of people that happen to live in the same continent from Tierra del Fuego to the Polar circle. I guess Argentinians, Peruvians, Brazilians and the rest of American nations would not take kindly decisions being made for them in an unnamed country that grew too much for their own good.

It reeks too much of "Lebensraum", you know...

[Seleucas]

I think it's more logical to say that a government that had to secede in order to create itself cannot really condemn the secession of its components.

Sure it can, it has the firepower to do so.

Obviously, but that would place it completely outside of ethics or morals; thus, it would not be a cogent condemnation.

I do agree about the USS Federal Government sinking, however, and I think it's taking on far more water than it realizes.

[Defensor]

If by "America" you mean your country, and only that, you are welcome to it...

But if you hold the original meaning of "the American continent for the US citizens", then mister, you are disregarding the rest of people that happen to live in the same continent from Tierra del Fuego to the Polar circle. I guess Argentinians, Peruvians, Brazilians and the rest of American nations would not take kindly decisions being made for them in an unnamed country that grew too much for their own good.

It reeks too much of "Lebensraum", you know...

Errr...what does that have anything to do with anything? Let's stay topic-focused and not discuss other countries "bitter hatred" for the USA's use of the word "America". That a silly topic for another forum

[The Archregimancy]

Do you really think the Confederacy would have a single friend, anywhere, among all the other nations on the planet? Which country, pray tell, do you think would be on your side, and why?

As a couple of other people have pointed out when this came up, Venezuela and Iran would likely extend a hand of friendship, if only to discomfort the USA. I can think of other candidates (Belarus, Cuba - the usual suspects) along similar lines.

The issue there is whether this hypothetical deeply conservative Southern Baptist-dominated Confederacy - likely simultaneously one of the most right wing and most religious democracies on the planet - would want to accept that hand.

As to the example of Israel, the 'Confederacy' itself would probably want to be Israel's friend, but whether Israel would want to be friends with a country whose likely leadership would in all probability openly espouse the belief that the existence of Israel is a necessary precondition for the imminent apocalypse and conversion of all the Jews to Christianity is open to question.

So there are plenty of countries who'd want to be a neo-CSA's friend - but it's hard to see what the CSA would want with them. And at least one of the countries the CSA would want to be friends with would have deep reservations about engaging with the CSA.


That said, this scenario is so unlikely to come to pass that I don't see why I just wasted 2 minutes thinking about it.

[Late Roman Empire]

Don't fool yourselves. The financial collapse of America is not far off. It is a very real, imminent threat to this nation. It is far closer than it appears to those not in the know. Believe me when I predict that if we do not get our act together as a country, we are going to fall in less than three years, if not sooner. It is that serious.

[Ostroeuropa]

Don't fool yourselves. The financial collapse of America is not far off. It is a very real, imminent threat to this nation. It is far closer than it appears to those not in the know. Believe me when I predict that if we do not get our act together as a country, we are going to fall in less than three years, if not sooner. It is that serious.

Tue Nov 13, 2015 2:55 am

Awesome. I'm collecting doomsayers, i'll put it in my sig for a few months on the day.
For the US to fall even into 2nd place by GDP, it'd need to have the economy shrink by:
18%
EVERY YEAR. for 3 years.
Seriously man? Seriously? You wanna revise your prediction or you gonna stick with it.

[Late Roman Empire]

Call it "doomsaying" if you must. But at unprecedented levels of national debt and counting, the smart money says I'm right. I say it not to gloat, but to warn that we must take action soon to get an actual budget passed, begin to pay down the debt, and get a grip on the dangers of runaway entitlement and defense spending. It's painful, but we must even begin to raise some taxes, even if we offset the pain in other areas, through lightening other burdens on the private sector. I'm no supply-sider. I want real, structural reforms, and everybody will have to sacrifice somewhat to avoid mortgaging our future as a country, or else we will be under the financial thumb of hostile nations (China, Saudi Arabia, etc.). As Hillary Clinton once quipped, "It is very hard to get tough with your banker."

[Late Roman Empire]

The economy will shrink more than you think, and very soon. Especially if we don't avoid that infamous automatic trigger issue come New Years'. Not even an economic boom could avoid the long-term financial cost of this. We owe more than we can repay by that means. These are not normal times. The debt has reached a critical mass. We are in a financial emergency. It is that grave.

[Ostroeuropa]

An economy simply cannot shrink by 18% every year without ceding huge areas of land.

[Late Roman Empire]

Shrink? It's going to do a bit more than shrink. This will make the Great Depression look nice. We're on the verge of total systemic collapse.

[Ostroeuropa]

Shrink? It's going to do a bit more than shrink. This will make the Great Depression look nice. We're on the verge of total systemic collapse.

I don't think you realize how absurd this statement is.
What's going to cause this collapse

[Northern Dominus]

Shrink? It's going to do a bit more than shrink. This will make the Great Depression look nice. We're on the verge of total systemic collapse.

I don't think you realize how absurd this statement is.
What's going to cause this collapse

Well if history is any indication, obstructionist Tea Party congressional figures like Cantor and Bachmann...again.

[Ostroeuropa]

I don't think you realize how absurd this statement is.
What's going to cause this collapse

Well if history is any indication, obstructionist Tea Party congressional figures like Cantor and Bachmann...again.

You mean those guys who got their ass handed to them this election?
The US is fine. They are in growth. So is most of the west. The recession is largely over.

[Late Roman Empire]

1. The next round of QE.
2. Obamacare (yes, that detested mandate. The premiums are already crushing many of us folks. Just wait until they hit everyone else).
3. The eventual crash of the bond markets.
4. The demographic "time bomb" of the retiring senior baby boomers.
5. The insolvency of Social Security and Medicare.
6. Europe's every growing financial mess.
7. The decline of our bond rating.
8. The insolvency of states like California.
9. The deterioration of our education and infrastructure systems.
10. The ever growing National Debt. We'll be in excess of 20 trillion by 2016.

In short, the perfect storm of financial time bombs. Any of these by themselves could be trouble for us. Together, they spell absolute ruin unless action is taken soon to actually resolve them.

[Ostroeuropa]

1. The next round of QE.
2. Obamacare (yes, that detested mandate. The premiums are already crushing many of us folks. Just wait until they hit everyone else).
3. The eventual crash of the bond markets.
4. The demographic "time bomb" of the retiring senior baby boomers.
5. The insolvency of Social Security and Medicare.
6. Europe's every growing financial mess.
7. The decline of our bond rating.
8. The insolvency of states like California.
9. The deterioration of our education and infrastructure systems.
10. The ever growing National Debt. We'll be in excess of 20 trillion by 2016.

In short, the perfect storm of financial time bombs. Any of these by themselves could be trouble for us. Together, they spell absolute ruin unless action is taken soon to actually resolve them.

You realize Obamacare hasn't even come into effect yet right?
Europe isn't in a mess. we're doing fine.
The national debt is only an issue because of tax cuts.

[Late Roman Empire]

Well if history is any indication, obstructionist Tea Party congressional figures like Cantor and Bachmann...again.

You mean those guys who got their ass handed to them this election?
The US is fine. They are in growth. So is most of the west. The recession is largely over.

Only in your dreams. The Depression is coming soon. And with an empty suit in the White House, God help us. Not that the Tea Party is any better. Both radical wings (Tea Party and the far left Occupy/Obama/Warren wing of the Dems) are part of the problem, not the solution. Last time, despite rhetoric to the contrary from both sides, neither was willing to seriously haggle. Now they will deal or we are doomed. Simple as that.

[Late Roman Empire]

Tell that to Greece. And Obamacare's effects are already being seen in higher premiums. Massive deficit spending is not merely tax cuts. Too much entitlement, defense, and discretionary spending are a large part of it, too. Keynesian economics do not work. Period.

[Ostroeuropa]

You mean those guys who got their ass handed to them this election?
The US is fine. They are in growth. So is most of the west. The recession is largely over.

Only in your dreams. The Depression is coming soon. And with an empty suit in the White House, God help us. Not that the Tea Party is any better. Both radical wings (Tea Party and the far left Occupy/Obama/Warren wing of the Dems) are part of the problem, not the solution. Last time, despite rhetoric to the contrary from both sides, neither was willing to seriously haggle. Now they will deal or we are doomed. Simple as that.

actually in statistics.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-13361934
Only greece has below 0% economic growth. Everyone else is growing.

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united- ... gdp-growth
USA is also growing.

It's over guys, the recession has passed. We are fine. Stop worrying.