Secession Movement in the United States

[Nazi Flower Power]

This is madness. We should be adding more states.

I wouldn't mind if Puerto Rico became a state.

[Rebelillon]

I Refuse To Recognize Obama As President So i Fully Support This

And Also its Amuzing that my state is Leading the Revolution

[The Grand World Order]

I Refuse To Recognize Obama As President So i Fully Support This

And Also its Amuzing that my state is Leading the Revolution

"Democracy's cool until the guy I don't like wins, at which point we must revolt."

Also, I feel ashamed to live in Colorado whenever I hear Coloradoans trying to hype up the state with things that are mediocre at best. "COLORADO PROUD FARMERS WOO COWBOYS, RODEOS" and the like, despite California having more farms, Texas having better rodeos, et cetera.

If I lived in a state that was trying to push for secession, I'd probably have a fit of depression.

[Late Roman Empire]

Folks, listen to me. Like it or not, Barack Hussein Obama, Jr. is the re-elected President. Period. He may not be fit for the office (I doubt that he is), but he is constitutionally the President. Last time we seceded over an election, it didn't turn out so well. Let's wait for a helluva better reason than that.

My other point was academic. Pragmatically speaking, I see secession as really an extreme scenario best avoided if at all it can be prevented honorably. It's legal, but rarely wise. It was unwise in 1860 and it's imprudent now, too. In other words, don't do it. Just because you legally can do something doesn't mean that you should.

[Dokuritsu Nippon]

Immediately, probably not. But it's showing growing social discontent, breakdown of the efficacy of the superstructure's narrative. Which are probably good signs for the eventual future harboring more active revolutionary sentiments.

And the true insanity is actively fighting against one's class interests.

It's not some sort of constantly growing thing, and the truth is, unless you were to severely disrupt the way most Americans live, there's not going to be a revolution. If it was, the Second US Civil War would've happened in the 80's, considering how the 60's and 70's looked.

It plausibly could have, were the counter-culture more militant and unified. But seeing how it was largely neither, indeed, nothing came of it.

I also fail to see how your canned "insanity is actively fighting against one's class interests" statement is relevant. But to humor you, I serve the interests of my countrymen, not of some masturbatory concept that Socialists spew about every time they open their mouths. I don't care about my class, and I don't care about anyone else's class. I care about how someone contributes to the general human condition of my country.

So you have a hardon for your "country" - almost cute if it weren't so patently irrational.

A "country" is just a piece of paper, a flag, a few documents. Generally I'd add in a culture and common ancestry, but in the case of the United States, the latter is objectively out of the picture, and the former is so mindlessly saccharinely consumerist, I'd say on aggregate it conveys a rather strong negative cultural value.

If you really would rather support all of the above over your economic interests, I'm sure the US government sees you as a nice obedient little drone they can use to murder brown people for corporate interests (you're in the military as I recall), and you'll more than happily risk your life to such ends. Can't really believe any human being could have so little dignity to kiss the boot of someone who actively hates him.

Insanity is a spectrum of extremely unusual mental and behavioral patterns. You've repeatedly shown almost clinically-provable delusion as per the definitions of it within the Medical Subject Headings directory, unless you're really just in denial- after all, it's uncomfortable to the mind for it to realize a previous belief is false, hence why it's easier to convince someone of an initial viewpoint than it is to convince someone that another viewpoint is correct.

Somehow I doubt you're a certified psychologist or psychiatrist. But thank you very much for your wannabe psychoanalysis.

But I see your point. A broken, devastated, war-torn USA (presuming that somehow the secessionists didn't fail immediately, and the Civil War blew up to massive proportions) would be just like your utopia, only without the Kim dynasty forcing the conditions that would cause so many Americans to needlessly die of basic causes such as starvation and exposure, since those would already be in the new status quo. Of course, it wouldn't be quite as wonderful as Best Korea, because Americans would still be able to freely attempt to get into Canada, and eventually rebuild their society instead of being held down eternally by the aforementioned Kims.

Wouldn't it be wonderful, fellas?

Whatever destroys the greatest evil is, for the moment, good.

The American government is the greatest force for harm in the modern world. Thus, whatever harms it is, at the very least a "useful idiot" per Marxist terms. Much easier to build up a socialist state AFTER abolishing the present anti-democratic one anyhow.

[North California]

Forget what I said earlier on Texas.


I fully support Alaskan independence as well. I'm iffy on Texas, and largely opposed to the rest.

[Tmutarakhan]

Do you really think the Confederacy would have a single friend, anywhere, among all the other nations on the planet? Which country, pray tell, do you think would be on your side, and why?

Israel for sure, granted they've never aided the U.S. outside of intel in anything so I highly doubt they'd give more to the South than they would a unified America. Though intel will be very crucial in a civil war

????????? What in the world would Israel want with you?

[The Ben Boys]

Forget what I said earlier on Texas.


I fully support Alaskan independence as well. I'm iffy on Texas, and largely opposed to the rest.

They should stay for the long run: eventually, there will be nations defined by continents (EU is the first step) as we become more and more connected. The big three in North America generally trade and rely on each other, especially in law enforcement.

Also, do you actually live in NorCal? That would mean I'm not the only fiscal conservative in this liberal haven.

[North California]

Forget what I said earlier on Texas.


I fully support Alaskan independence as well. I'm iffy on Texas, and largely opposed to the rest.

They should stay for the long run: eventually, there will be nations defined by continents (EU is the first step) as we become more and more connected. The big three in North America generally trade and rely on each other, especially in law enforcement.

Also, do you actually live in NorCal? That would mean I'm not the only fiscal conservative in this liberal haven.

Yes, I live in NorCal.


But the world doesn't have to be defined by continents. If any North American Union was formed, I'd oppose and resist it until I die.

America is for the Americans, not the Canadians and Mexicans.

[The Grand World Order]

It plausibly could have, were the counter-culture more militant and unified. But seeing how it was largely neither, indeed, nothing came of it.

It could have. It always could have. But it didn't, and it won't, and if it does, it's not going to be on a massive scale.

So you have a hardon for your "country" - almost cute if it weren't so patently irrational.

A "country" is just a piece of paper, a flag, a few documents. Generally I'd add in a culture and common ancestry, but in the case of the United States, the latter is objectively out of the picture, and the former is so mindlessly saccharinely consumerist, I'd say on aggregate it conveys a rather strong negative cultural value.

If you really would rather support all of the above over your economic interests, I'm sure the US government sees you as a nice obedient little drone they can use to murder brown people for corporate interests (you're in the military as I recall), and you'll more than happily risk your life to such ends. Can't really believe any human being could have so little dignity to kiss the boot of someone who actively hates him.

The Government totes has it out for me, and makes it evident. God, I'm so oppressed. No, I'm not in the military- I'm volunteering after I finish rehabilitating my family so they'll be able to physically move around on their own. In the meantime, I run my own little computer repair gig, and have considered furthering my psychology studies; I've decided to put that off until after I'm done killing foreign babies in the hundreds.

You clearly do not value the concept of a nation, this much is obvious, but pray tell, what makes class superior to it? Shared general income? Shared hatred of other classes? It can't be the former, after all, isn't a man supposed to be judged by what he is, not what he has? It can't be "shared hardships," either, because the hardships a worker faces in one country will differ from those faced by a worker in another. Thus, all it seems to me is a shared hatred for other classes.

Somehow I doubt you're a certified psychologist or psychiatrist. But thank you very much for your wannabe psychoanalysis.

Nope, I'm not a doctor of psychology, nor of psychiatry. I can read MeSH however- I didn't even need to spend two years studying psychology for that.

Psychoanalysis? Please, if I'd have been doing that, I'd be saying mean things about your relationship with your mother, or explaining id-ego-superego and the like. I'm more of a behaviorist, tbh.

Whatever destroys the greatest evil is, for the moment, good.

The American government is the greatest force for harm in the modern world. Thus, whatever harms it is, at the very least a "useful idiot" per Marxist terms. Much easier to build up a socialist state AFTER abolishing the present anti-democratic one anyhow.

I still can't fathom how you think the US is anti-democratic while praising the DPRK. Hell, you even said that it's all good and fine to murder people for expressing their ideals if they weren't Socialist. I mean, I guess if we were being unusually harsh we could, at worst, call the United States a hybrid regime akin to the Russian Federation.

But the fact remains that it won't happen, and if it does, it'll be a pathetic hurrah. It's theoretically been attempted, people have tried to start the revolution, but it just ends up with them robbing a bank or doing something symbolic, taking innocent people hostage when the police show up, only to start shooting at the SWAT team, which never ends well. The 1992 Black Riots were much closer to a revolution than what we're seeing now. It's sort of like when you or the KFA try to convince us the DPRK is anything but a repugnant despot state and we all just sit here wondering how Spanish nobility could actually play revolutionary and take some malleable non-Koreans with him.

Additionally, in a Former United States without a government, do you know who'd be left? The rednecks and militiamen, who epitomize everything you hate. They actively prepare for this sort of thing. Oh, and of course, the military.

[Dokuritsu Nippon]

It could have. It always could have. But it didn't, and it won't, and if it does, it's not going to be on a massive scale.

I'm not about to defend the (mostly) reformist, pacifist cowards of the 'hippie' movement who spent half their time drugged up on LSD.

Nor am I particularly fond of what is growingly seeming to be their modern analogs in Occupy.

The Government totes has it out for me, and makes it evident. God, I'm so oppressed. No, I'm not in the military- I'm volunteering after I finish rehabilitating my family so they'll be able to physically move around on their own. In the meantime, I run my own little computer repair gig, and have considered furthering my psychology studies; I've decided to put that off until after I'm done killing foreign babies in the hundreds.

Millions of US citizens go homeless and without basic healthcare with millions of homes sitting vacant and trillions of dollars into a military more than 8 times larger than China. A totally rational government that truly cares for its people.

You clearly do not value the concept of a nation, this much is obvious, but pray tell, what makes class superior to it? Shared general income? Shared hatred of other classes? It can't be the former, after all, isn't a man supposed to be judged by what he is, not what he has? It can't be "shared hardships," either, because the hardships a worker faces in one country will differ from those faced by a worker in another. Thus, all it seems to me is a shared hatred for other classes.

Class is one's relationship to the means of production. Income levels are only incidental, not causal to the definition.

I define a "worker" as anyone who earns their livelihood through productive labor - that is expenditure of energy either in a service that is viewed as valuable or in improving the value of a product. That is, everyone who produces all value to society.

The capitalist class, conversely, is composed of those who do not labor - that is, do not produce any value for society - but simply own capital and through such means, extract value from the work of another's hand. That is simple parasiticism. Even if you want to fetishize the nation so much, potentially they too could be laboring and thus producing more value instead of sucking value away from their nation.

Somehow I doubt you're a certified psychologist or psychiatrist. But thank you very much for your wannabe psychoanalysis.

Nope, I'm not a doctor of psychology, nor of psychiatry. I can read MeSH however- I didn't even need to spend two years studying psychology for that.

Psychoanalysis? Please, if I'd have been doing that, I'd be saying mean things about your relationship with your mother, or explaining id-ego-superego and the like. I'm more of a behaviorist, tbh.

Again, until you actually possess a relevant degree from an accredited institution, none of this means particularly anything.

Though if it really means that much to you, I suppose a good part of the reason the DPRK has such a strong emotional affinity to me - beyond the far more important underlying theoretical agreement I have with the Juche theory, which I find to be the most advanced form of Marxist-Leninist theory thus far defined - is that in a good number of ways, in a personal, if not national way, I quite have been in a similar position to them. Most of my life prior to coming to university, I never fit in with my peers. While they cared about things I found quite vapid, I pursued intellectual pursuits and mainly would have been content just keeping to myself with a close friend or two. But a lot of assholes continuously went out of their way to make my life a living hell. So yeah, as someone who's been relegated to a status of "outcast nerd" for most of their life, there's something poetically beautiful to me about a nation founded by a bunch of people who were repressed for several generations by multiple nations standing up to and defeating their foreign oppressors to forge a new, proud independent future, where intellectuals are the ruling class. A nation that stood up to - and defeated - the world's biggest "bully" to stand as a proud, free nation certainly gets props from me. Choseon Manse! Kim Il Sung, Suryong-nim, Manse! *Kisses DPRK flag*

I still can't fathom how you think the US is anti-democratic while praising the DPRK.

Simple. "Demo-cracy" is "that which empowers the demos", per the original Greek. The Demos are the masses, in this world, certainly then, the workers. Thus workers' states, and only workers states are true Democracies.

Hell, you even said that it's all good and fine to murder people for expressing their ideals if they weren't Socialist. I mean, I guess if we were being unusually harsh we could, at worst, call the United States a hybrid regime akin to the Russian Federation.

But the fact remains that it won't happen, and if it does, it'll be a pathetic hurrah. It's theoretically been attempted, people have tried to start the revolution, but it just ends up with them robbing a bank or doing something symbolic, taking innocent people hostage when the police show up, only to start shooting at the SWAT team, which never ends well. The 1992 Black Riots were much closer to a revolution than what we're seeing now.

Revolutionary movements without a leading vanguard and firm theoretical basis are bound to failure, yes.

It's sort of like when you or the KFA try to convince us the DPRK is anything but a repugnant despot state and we all just sit here wondering how Spanish nobility could actually play revolutionary and take some malleable non-Koreans with him.

The DPRK is one of the few nations on earth standing proudly against attempts at global cultural and economic hegemony. Choseon Manse!

Additionally, in a Former United States without a government, do you know who'd be left? The rednecks and militiamen, who epitomize everything you hate. They actively prepare for this sort of thing.

Rednecks and the like primarily only get their (false) consciousness spoonfed from them by the superstructure (primarily religion in their instance). With the government collapsing, I'm sure they'd splinter ten thousand ways and never be a cohesive force for anything.

That and, so long as the US government collapses, US imperialism collapses as well. Which is more than great by me, and my primary concern at the moment.. I'd just move to China/the DPRK/Cuba or something and let the fascists back in the US kill one another off if it came to that.

Again, unlike you, I don't have some overpowering loyalty to this part of the world simply because by some cosmic accident I was born here instead of somewhere else. I'm already seriously considering permanently leaving the US, so I'd have no qualms about doing so. So long as the US military was no longer a force for imperialism worldwide, that'd be a huge plus from the status quo.

[Quebec and Atlantic Canada]

I'm not about to defend the (mostly) reformist, pacifist cowards of the 'hippie' movement who spent half their time drugged up on LSD.

Woah, for a second there I thought you'd changed into a hardline fascist!

(Word to the wise.)

[Dokuritsu Nippon]

I'm not about to defend the (mostly) reformist, pacifist cowards of the 'hippie' movement who spent half their time drugged up on LSD.

Woah, for a second there I thought you'd changed into a hardline fascist!

(Word to the wise.)

Nah. I just don't particularly care for reformist or pacifist 'leftist' movements, as I think they have no chance of victory, and only serve to sap a lot of energy that could otherwise go towards more radical movements.

"The oppressed peoples of the world can liberate themselves only through armed struggle. This is a clear and simple truth confirmed by history." ~ Kim Il Sung, Suryong-nim.

That and I've rubbed shoulders with their modern analogs, and ... eeewww... >__<

[Condunum]

The comments section of that article is particularly juicy to me.

[The New Empire Movement]

Seriously, any secession would end violently with those who seceded being the dead ones. No state has enough control over their national guard forces to be effective, plus the Active Duty US Military is spread out everywhere and a revolt like a scession would be stopped very quickly. One of the reasons why the vast majority of our Active Duty military is spread out among the states and generally away from their home states is because of such an event. I every soldier or sailor assigned to a base in their home state there would be the whole issue of losing large portions of the US Military to secession. It happened in the Civl War so they wont let that happen. Besides, the only state that legally has the right to secede is Texas because they were once their own republic and entered the Union under treaty which still stands to this day. If Texas really wanted to they could secede and no one could do anything about it, they can be completely self sustained in a military conflict unlike some states that people are saying want to secede. Long story short, there will be no secession from any states because it would be the largest military blunder of the 21st Century.

[Risottia]

So NationStates, have you heard this? What do you think about it?

http://www.examiner.com/article/obama-secession-petitions-will-50-states-petition-the-president-to-secede

The article is pure bullshit. States aren't petitioning to secede. Some citizens (a very small minority) of some States have signed a petition to secede. There's a HUGE difference.

[Condunum]

So NationStates, have you heard this? What do you think about it?

http://www.examiner.com/article/obama-secession-petitions-will-50-states-petition-the-president-to-secede

The article is pure bullshit. States aren't petitioning to secede. Some citizens (a very small minority) of some States have signed a petition to secede. There's a HUGE difference.

They're also petitioning to the wrong place, considering that they need to petition to their own states first.

[Norstal]

Woah, for a second there I thought you'd changed into a hardline fascist!

(Word to the wise.)

Nah. I just don't particularly care for reformist or pacifist 'leftist' movements, as I think they have no chance of victory, and only serve to sap a lot of energy that could otherwise go towards more radical movements.

And that is why the Juche movement has been successful worldwide.

Lulz.

[Quebec and Atlantic Canada]

Nah. I just don't particularly care for reformist or pacifist 'leftist' movements, as I think they have no chance of victory, and only serve to sap a lot of energy that could otherwise go towards more radical movements.

And that is why the Juche movement has been successful worldwide.

Lulz.

Obviously the evil KKKapitalists have been suppressing it.

[Norstal]

Better a temporary hiccup then America itself being thrown to the dogs.
And yes, I suppose it would be like Lincoln. He was one of the best American presidents so I have no problem if I remind you of him.

Because America becoming like Europe is totally what our Founding Fathers had in mind...

The British monarchy wanted England to be a theocratic, absolute monarchy.

Well, that worked out well today didn't it.

[Ceannairceach]

They should stay for the long run: eventually, there will be nations defined by continents (EU is the first step) as we become more and more connected. The big three in North America generally trade and rely on each other, especially in law enforcement.

Also, do you actually live in NorCal? That would mean I'm not the only fiscal conservative in this liberal haven.

Yes, I live in NorCal.


But the world doesn't have to be defined by continents. If any North American Union was formed, I'd oppose and resist it until I die.

America is for the Americans, not the Canadians and Mexicans.

If a union happened, America either A) wouldn't exist any more and thus the point would be moot or B) would remain as a single nation in a politically federated alliance, and a system of immigration and integration would probably prevent mass movement of peoples across borders until the situation is equalized.

That said, I don't much care for your nationalistic garbage anyway. If they make the endeavor to come here and work like the rest of us for the betterment of America, for all intents and purposes they are Americans.

[Ceannairceach]

So NationStates, have you heard this? What do you think about it?

http://www.examiner.com/article/obama-secession-petitions-will-50-states-petition-the-president-to-secede

The article is pure bullshit. States aren't petitioning to secede. Some citizens (a very small minority) of some States have signed a petition to secede. There's a HUGE difference.

Heh, indeed. Unless its 30,000 people in Vermont, that number doesn't really matter much.

[Condunum]

The article is pure bullshit. States aren't petitioning to secede. Some citizens (a very small minority) of some States have signed a petition to secede. There's a HUGE difference.

Heh, indeed. Unless its 30,000 people in Vermont, that number doesn't really matter much.

There are more than 30,000 people in Vermont?

There are people in Vermont?

[The Black Forrest]

Bunch of codswallop if you ask me.

The signatures aren't even from the same state and I wouldn't be surprised if the several people are creating several accounts to sign them all.

Even then, less then 1/2 million and there are 300 million people.

Sour grapes and some people who don't like a black guy in office.......

[Defensor]

Eh, I say let the situation roll out and what happens, happens...the end

We can only speculate...results of actions taken are variables, not constants