Secession Movement in the United States

[Sane Outcasts]

Ironic, because Obama expanded gun rights to unheard of levels.

The NRA fucking hates him though, they gave him an F on gun rights, thus proving they're completely partisan and not in any way objective.

Did you hear about how gun sales rose before the election because gun owners were afraid Obama's re-election would lead to a tightening of control? It's good business to have gun enthusiasts afraid, regardless of the truth. It worked in 2008 and it worked again this year.

[Farnhamia]

The NRA fucking hates him though, they gave him an F on gun rights, thus proving they're completely partisan and not in any way objective.

Did you hear about how gun sales rose before the election because gun owners were afraid Obama's re-election would lead to a tightening of control? It's good business to have gun enthusiasts afraid, regardless of the truth. It worked in 2008 and it worked again this year.

The Republicans in the House won't vote for any economic stimulus packages, so the President does what he can by other means.

[Bottle]

I was thinking more, everyone keeps what's in their own state.

Why? The military equipment (and bases) belongs to the federal government not to the states.

Well, in principle I'm okay with taking back everything that my dirty Union tax dollars paid for (since obviously those brave secessionists won't want it anyhow), but the reality is that if we start doing that then we'll have to take all their stop signs and school books and shit, and that just seems mean.

I'd just as soon leave them with what they've got, even if it's mostly shit we paid for, because I want the people of the Confederacy to live long enough to see what their new country would really be like. Then they can choose whether they want to stay there or not. I don't particularly want to see them dying in droves to car accidents and lead poisoning before they have a chance to experience their right-wing paradise.

[Dyakovo]

Ironic, because Obama expanded gun rights to unheard of levels.

The NRA fucking hates him though, they gave him an F on gun rights, thus proving they're completely partisan and not in any way objective.

Which would be part of the reason I didn't renew my membership...

[TomKirk]

Well, in principle I'm okay with taking back everything that my dirty Union tax dollars paid for (since obviously those brave secessionists won't want it anyhow)... I don't particularly want to see them dying in droves to car accidents...

We can stop a lot of the car accidents, anyhow, by sending men with jackhammers to tear out all the asphalt on the Interstates before we let them leave.

[Dyakovo]

Why? The military equipment (and bases) belongs to the federal government not to the states.

Well, in principle I'm okay with taking back everything that my dirty Union tax dollars paid for (since obviously those brave secessionists won't want it anyhow), but the reality is that if we start doing that then we'll have to take all their stop signs and school books and shit, and that just seems mean.

I'd just as soon leave them with what they've got, even if it's mostly shit we paid for, because I want the people of the Confederacy to live long enough to see what their new country would really be like. Then they can choose whether they want to stay there or not. I don't particularly want to see them dying in droves to car accidents and lead poisoning before they have a chance to experience their right-wing paradise.

Schoolbooks and traffic signs are owned by the state, military equipment is owned by the federal government.

[Zathganastan]

Why? The military equipment (and bases) belongs to the federal government not to the states.

Well, in principle I'm okay with taking back everything that my dirty Union tax dollars paid for (since obviously those brave secessionists won't want it anyhow), but the reality is that if we start doing that then we'll have to take all their stop signs and school books and shit, and that just seems mean.

I'd just as soon leave them with what they've got, even if it's mostly shit we paid for, because I want the people of the Confederacy to live long enough to see what their new country would really be like. Then they can choose whether they want to stay there or not. I don't particularly want to see them dying in droves to car accidents and lead poisoning before they have a chance to experience their right-wing paradise.

The government shouldn't have to protect people from themselves, if they want to die by the
thousands just to be independent far be it for us to stop them.

[Farnhamia]

Once the newly independent states begin issuing bonds to pay for stuff, the United States should start buying them.

[Dyakovo]

Once the newly independent states begin issuing bonds to pay for stuff, the United States should start buying them.

Why buy junk bonds?

[Bottle]

Well, in principle I'm okay with taking back everything that my dirty Union tax dollars paid for (since obviously those brave secessionists won't want it anyhow), but the reality is that if we start doing that then we'll have to take all their stop signs and school books and shit, and that just seems mean.

I'd just as soon leave them with what they've got, even if it's mostly shit we paid for, because I want the people of the Confederacy to live long enough to see what their new country would really be like. Then they can choose whether they want to stay there or not. I don't particularly want to see them dying in droves to car accidents and lead poisoning before they have a chance to experience their right-wing paradise.

Schoolbooks and traffic signs are owned by the state, military equipment is owned by the federal government.

Federal tax dollars pay for a metric fuckton of infrastructure in those states. Money is fungible, remember?!

[Bottle]

Well, in principle I'm okay with taking back everything that my dirty Union tax dollars paid for (since obviously those brave secessionists won't want it anyhow), but the reality is that if we start doing that then we'll have to take all their stop signs and school books and shit, and that just seems mean.

I'd just as soon leave them with what they've got, even if it's mostly shit we paid for, because I want the people of the Confederacy to live long enough to see what their new country would really be like. Then they can choose whether they want to stay there or not. I don't particularly want to see them dying in droves to car accidents and lead poisoning before they have a chance to experience their right-wing paradise.

The government shouldn't have to protect people from themselves, if they want to die by the
thousands just to be independent far be it for us to stop them.

I care about the people of the Confederacy. I think most secessionists are misguided, not evil, and I don't wish death upon them.

Hell, if they secede and it actually works out for them and they are successful and happy, then great! I wish them the best. I don't think they are good people to share a country with, but I have no issue with them making a go of it on their own.

[TomKirk]

Schoolbooks and traffic signs are owned by the state, military equipment is owned by the federal government.

Federal tax dollars pay for a metric fuckton of infrastructure in those states. Money is fungible, remember?!

That's why it would be simpler just to take out the infrastructure, so it's plain that we are only taking what we paid for; true, we can't actually do much with the asphalt and concrete we'll be ripping out, but I suppose we could dump it in heaps at the new borders to make a better barrier than we've ever had against Mexicans.

[Farnhamia]

Once the newly independent states begin issuing bonds to pay for stuff, the United States should start buying them.

Why buy junk bonds?

I did think of that, but it would allow us to invade them when they default. There is precedent for that, Mexico in the 1860s. That was all about debt.

[Death Metal]

The government shouldn't have to protect people from themselves, if they want to die by the
thousands just to be independent far be it for us to stop them.

I care about the people of the Confederacy. I think most secessionists are misguided, not evil, and I don't wish death upon them.

That misguidance can go far. I've known people who wanted to form a country where they wouldn't be "repressed by Christian fundamentalism".

Their plan for doing this? Making ownership of a Bible punishable by death without trial.

[Dyakovo]

Schoolbooks and traffic signs are owned by the state, military equipment is owned by the federal government.

Federal tax dollars pay for a metric fuckton of infrastructure in those states. Money is fungible, remember?!

Federal money may have helped pay for the stuff, but it is property of the state.
Reimbursement in the amount in excess of federal taxes paid in would be acceptable...

[Maineiacs]

This is several years old, but still largely topical.


http://www.fuckthesouth.com/

[Prometheo]

The secession movement struck me, at first, as something cool. I was sort of proud when I saw that my home state, Texas, had the most signatures. Then, the more I thought about it, the more I realized that the whole secession movement is what a bunch of upset, crybaby states look like.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but i'm fairly certain that its not common practice for folks to just up and decide to fracture the country because they didn't get the president they wanted.
If people want to have democracy, they're gonna have to learn that it goes both ways.

However, if they really want to secede, I say let them. The confederacy will never work for an extended period of time, and will only serve to weaken the United States at a time when the United States cannot afford to weaken any more.

[Dyakovo]

Why buy junk bonds?

I did think of that, but it would allow us to invade them when they default. There is precedent for that, Mexico in the 1860s. That was all about debt.

Didn't think of that...

[Bottle]

Federal tax dollars pay for a metric fuckton of infrastructure in those states. Money is fungible, remember?!

Federal money may have helped pay for the stuff, but it is property of the state.
Reimbursement in the amount in excess of federal taxes paid in would be acceptable...

Sure, I suppose. But see, that would be starting them off really rough. With the exception of Texas, not a single one of them has a budget in the black, they're all relying on us to support them. And Texas is only balancing their budget by completely gutting fundamental social safety nets, so shit is going to be crashing down soon enough. They've already got enough working against them, IMO, so I'd just as soon think of it as a going away present and just let them keep what they have.

[Farnhamia]

The secession movement struck me, at first, as something cool. I was sort of proud when I saw that my home state, Texas, had the most signatures. Then, the more I thought about it, the more I realized that the whole secession movement is what a bunch of upset, crybaby states look like.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but i'm fairly certain that its not common practice for folks to just up and decide to fracture the country because they didn't get the president they wanted.
If people want to have democracy, they're gonna have to learn that it goes both ways.

However, if they really want to secede, I say let them. The confederacy will never work for an extended period of time, and will only serve to weaken the United States at a time when the United States cannot afford to weaken any more.

And these are not petitions from the state governments but rather petitions from individuals. There's no requirement that a signer be from the state in question and no way to verify that they are if they say they are. Bobby Jindal in Louisiana has called it silly. This did happen once before, after the 1860 election.

[Wind in the Willows]

Just let them secede from the USA.

[Farnhamia]

Just let them secede from the USA.

As tempting as that is, I don't see why we should break up the country for such a frivilous reason. It's like ... well, I can't think of an analogous bit of foolishness.

[Jocabia]

Wasn't it you who said that if we tried to take back our military equipment that we'd have to pry it from your cold dead hands?

By "our" you mean "your", as in our equipment, right?

Complete asset transfer [specifically related to military hardware] takes place upon independence. Meaning, that assets which were held by the State prior to secession become property of the new Republic. Look up the relevant Federal laws regarding possession.

Any attempts made to claim said equipment would involve foreign troops entering [now] sovereign soil - which in military terms is akin to a declaration of war and would be met with the appropriate response. Again, it is clear who the instigator would be.

Ah, I see, you're joking.

In case you're not, I believe there is a historical precedent for this kind of thing. I'm trying to think how it worked out.

And we wouldn't be aggressors. We'd be nation-building, as taught to us by Mr. George W. Bush. We couldn't in good conscious allow you to retain weapons of mass destruction.

[Dyakovo]

Federal money may have helped pay for the stuff, but it is property of the state.
Reimbursement in the amount in excess of federal taxes paid in would be acceptable...

Sure, I suppose. But see, that would be starting them off really rough. With the exception of Texas, not a single one of them has a budget in the black, they're all relying on us to support them. And Texas is only balancing their budget by completely gutting fundamental social safety nets, so shit is going to be crashing down soon enough. They've already got enough working against them, IMO, so I'd just as soon think of it as a going away present and just let them keep what they have.

See, the thing is, I don't give a shit about treasonous assholes...

[Prometheo]

Just let them secede from the USA.

As tempting as that is, I don't see why we should break up the country for such a frivilous reason. It's like ... well, I can't think of an analogous bit of foolishness.

Like a child vehemently informing his parents through his tears that he, "Hates it here, and wants to go live with grandma"?