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Tagmatium
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Posts: 16593
Founded: Dec 17, 2004
Democratic Socialists

Postby Tagmatium » Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:00 am

Khadgar wrote:
Ravenvalles wrote:No, I mean liberals who believe government funded jobs expand the economy, and are not just another form of being on the dole.

So clearly you believe the military is equivalent to welfare then? It's a government funded job.

Nah, they kill brown people, so it's OK.
The above post may or may not be serious.
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Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f
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Ex-Nation

Postby Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f » Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:03 am

Khadgar wrote:
Ravenvalles wrote:
No, I mean liberals who believe government funded jobs expand the economy, and are not just another form of being on the dole.


So clearly you believe the military is equivalent to welfare then? It's a government funded job.


Or the Post Office, FBI, CIA, DARPA, CDC, all those Dept of Agriculture field workers etc etc

All who spend their earned money...all which is a part of the economy. It cracks me up that people say stupid shit like gov funded jobs do nothing for the economy blah blah brain wank blah blah blah this and expect to be taken seriously.
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Khadgar
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Ex-Nation

Postby Khadgar » Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:07 am

Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f wrote:
Khadgar wrote:
So clearly you believe the military is equivalent to welfare then? It's a government funded job.


Or the Post Office, FBI, CIA, DARPA, CDC, all those Dept of Agriculture field workers etc etc

All who spend their earned money...all which is a part of the economy. It cracks me up that people say stupid shit like gov funded jobs do nothing for the economy blah blah brain wank blah blah blah this and expect to be taken seriously.


I truly look forward to his rebuttal.

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Ravenvalles
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Founded: Aug 07, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Ravenvalles » Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:09 am

Risottia wrote:If I were a Christian I'd consider mr.Murray to be a blasphemer of the worst kind.


As a christian, I don't consider it to be blaspheme, I do consider it to be in bad taste. Typically, public prayers are suspect, and more about personal agendas than true prayers. If one truly believes in an omniscient, and omnipotent god then this prayer has no value, all unfolds as per God's plan. It only works as a personal prayer between a man of faith and his god.
"For surely it is folly to preach to children who will be riding rockets to the moon a morality and cosmology based on concepts of Good Society and of man's place in nature that were coined before the harnessing of the horse." - Joseph Campbell

“The gap in our economy is between what we have and what we think we ought to have - and that is a moral problem, not an economic one.” - Paul Heyne

"the soul of a free man looks at life as a series of problems to be solved, and solves them, while the soul of a slave whines, 'What can I do who am but a slave?'" - George S. Clason

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Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f
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Founded: Jan 21, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f » Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:12 am

Khadgar wrote:
Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f wrote:
Or the Post Office, FBI, CIA, DARPA, CDC, all those Dept of Agriculture field workers etc etc

All who spend their earned money...all which is a part of the economy. It cracks me up that people say stupid shit like gov funded jobs do nothing for the economy blah blah brain wank blah blah blah this and expect to be taken seriously.


I truly look forward to his rebuttal.


I'm not holding my breath...
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Ravenvalles
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Founded: Aug 07, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Ravenvalles » Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:31 am

Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f wrote:
Khadgar wrote:
So clearly you believe the military is equivalent to welfare then? It's a government funded job.


Or the Post Office, FBI, CIA, DARPA, CDC, all those Dept of Agriculture field workers etc etc

All who spend their earned money...all which is a part of the economy. It cracks me up that people say stupid shit like gov funded jobs do nothing for the economy blah blah brain wank blah blah blah this and expect to be taken seriously.


Some things are best handled on the national level. But, like it or not, the military, FBI etc. only, (I hate to say only, because they are vitally important) contribute to the stability of the economic environment. They do not directly create products, or service those products. All monies that flow through the government, have a negative multiplier effect. This includes everything they do for us. whether it is protecting the borders, or building a highway. Consider that in the 1990's in the state of Washington, there were four administrators or social workers for every person receiving assistance. That is not a public assistance program, it is a jobs program. Those administrators, and social workers would have been better employed in the private sector where the wealth of the community is created.

Just an opinion, and I did not have to use one "blah". :p
"For surely it is folly to preach to children who will be riding rockets to the moon a morality and cosmology based on concepts of Good Society and of man's place in nature that were coined before the harnessing of the horse." - Joseph Campbell

“The gap in our economy is between what we have and what we think we ought to have - and that is a moral problem, not an economic one.” - Paul Heyne

"the soul of a free man looks at life as a series of problems to be solved, and solves them, while the soul of a slave whines, 'What can I do who am but a slave?'" - George S. Clason

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Ifreann
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Posts: 126847
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Democratic Socialists

Postby Ifreann » Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:34 am

Ravenvalles wrote:
The Land Fomerly Known as Ligerplace wrote:Don't you mean the conservatives who want a better economy, but then directly increase the unemployment rate?


No, I mean liberals who believe government funded jobs expand the economy, and are not just another form of being on the dole.

I must have some very strange ideas about what being on the dole involves. Or working for the government.
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Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f
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Founded: Jan 21, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f » Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:36 am

Ravenvalles wrote:
Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f wrote:
Or the Post Office, FBI, CIA, DARPA, CDC, all those Dept of Agriculture field workers etc etc

All who spend their earned money...all which is a part of the economy. It cracks me up that people say stupid shit like gov funded jobs do nothing for the economy blah blah brain wank blah blah blah this and expect to be taken seriously.


Some things are best handled on the national level. But, like it or not, the military, FBI etc. only, (I hate to say only, because they are vitally important) contribute to the stability of the economic environment. They do not directly create products, or service those products. All monies that flow through the government, have a negative multiplier effect. This includes everything they do for us. whether it is protecting the borders, or building a highway. Consider that in the 1990's in the state of Washington, there were four administrators or social workers for every person receiving assistance. That is not a public assistance program, it is a jobs program. Those administrators, and social workers would have been better employed in the private sector where the wealth of the community is created.

Just an opinion, and I did not have to use one "blah". :p


Wow. So doctors and nurses, for example, are not a part of the value chain because they do not create products.

You're understanding of a complex subject is less than elementary. As it is with most of your ilk.
PLEASE DO NOT SEND ME TG's. MODERATORS READ YOUR TG's WITHOUT YOUR PERMISSION.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Flowers Call me Rubi for short or Vonners

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Charles Montgomery Burns
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Posts: 10
Founded: Nov 09, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Charles Montgomery Burns » Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:45 am

It is nice to see this thread is filled with adolescents who have no true understanding of how the economy works, or how Obama's policies are destroying the energy industry in America.
Last edited by Charles Montgomery Burns on Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Fintanland
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Founded: Aug 28, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Fintanland » Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:46 am

Charles Montgomery Burns wrote:It is nice to see this thread is filled with adolescent teenagers who have no understanding of how the economy works, or how Obama's policies are destroying the energy industry in America.

Then enlighten us, oh great one. This oughta be good...
Pro: Communists, Trotskyists, neo-Trotskyists, crypto-Trotskyists, union leaders, Communist union leaders, atheists, agnostics, long-haired weirdos, short-haired weirdos, football supporters, namby- pamby probation officers, foreign surgeons - headshrinkers, Wedgwood Benn, keg bitter, punk rock, glue- sniffers, Play For Today, squatters, Clive Jenkins, Roy Jenkins, Up Jenkins, up everybody's, Chinese restaurants

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Khadgar
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Ex-Nation

Postby Khadgar » Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:48 am

Charles Montgomery Burns wrote:It is nice to see this thread is filled with adolescent teenagers who have no understanding of how the economy works, or how Obama's policies are destroying the energy industry in America.


Oh do tell. Because last I checked the reason the coal industry is having problems, is because natural gas is a fuckton cheaper, easier to extract, safer, burns cleaner. Clearly this is all Obama's doing, I mean he's the one who opened the way to fracking right? No, wait that was W wasn't it? Why didn't we hear how anti-coal he was?

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Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f
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Ex-Nation

Postby Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f » Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:50 am

Charles Montgomery Burns wrote:It is nice to see this thread is filled with adolescents who have no true understanding of how the economy works, or how Obama's policies are destroying the energy industry in America.


Yeah...no not really. The only adolescent with no true understanding of how the economy works is one of yours...of course I'm not including you in that. Yet.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Flowers Call me Rubi for short or Vonners

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Ravenvalles
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Founded: Aug 07, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Ravenvalles » Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:52 am

Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f wrote:
Ravenvalles wrote:
Some things are best handled on the national level. But, like it or not, the military, FBI etc. only, (I hate to say only, because they are vitally important) contribute to the stability of the economic environment. They do not directly create products, or service those products. All monies that flow through the government, have a negative multiplier effect. This includes everything they do for us. whether it is protecting the borders, or building a highway. Consider that in the 1990's in the state of Washington, there were four administrators or social workers for every person receiving assistance. That is not a public assistance program, it is a jobs program. Those administrators, and social workers would have been better employed in the private sector where the wealth of the community is created.

Just an opinion, and I did not have to use one "blah". :p


Wow. So doctors and nurses, for example, are not a part of the value chain because they do not create products.

You're understanding of a complex subject is less than elementary. As it is with most of your ilk.


Don't you think health care is a product or service? You have attacked me (ad hominem), and not seriously addressed the topic, just picked at it.

I am heading off to take a tour of the local Mormon temple this morning. They open them up to the general public before their dedication. I wholly recommend the tour to anybody interested in understanding the LDS or their architecture. So, signing off for now.
"For surely it is folly to preach to children who will be riding rockets to the moon a morality and cosmology based on concepts of Good Society and of man's place in nature that were coined before the harnessing of the horse." - Joseph Campbell

“The gap in our economy is between what we have and what we think we ought to have - and that is a moral problem, not an economic one.” - Paul Heyne

"the soul of a free man looks at life as a series of problems to be solved, and solves them, while the soul of a slave whines, 'What can I do who am but a slave?'" - George S. Clason

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Fintanland
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Founded: Aug 28, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Fintanland » Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:54 am

Ravenvalles wrote:Don't you think health care is a product or service? You have attacked me (ad hominem), and not seriously addressed the topic, just picked at it.

I am heading off to take a tour of the local Mormon temple this morning. They open them up to the general public before their dedication. I wholly recommend the tour to anybody interested in understanding the LDS or their architecture. So, signing off for now.

So, highways, border protection and so on are not products or services? I disagree.
Pro: Communists, Trotskyists, neo-Trotskyists, crypto-Trotskyists, union leaders, Communist union leaders, atheists, agnostics, long-haired weirdos, short-haired weirdos, football supporters, namby- pamby probation officers, foreign surgeons - headshrinkers, Wedgwood Benn, keg bitter, punk rock, glue- sniffers, Play For Today, squatters, Clive Jenkins, Roy Jenkins, Up Jenkins, up everybody's, Chinese restaurants

Anti: Thugs, bully-boys, psychopaths, sacked policemen, security guards, sacked security guards, racialists, Pakistani-bashers, queer-bashers, Chinese-bashers, anybody-bashers, Rear Admirals, Vice-Admirals, fascists, neo-fascists, crypto-fascists, loyalists, neo- loyalists, crypto-loyalists.

(With apologies to "The Fall and Rise of Reginald Perrin")

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Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f
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Founded: Jan 21, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f » Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:56 am

Ravenvalles wrote:
Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f wrote:
Wow. So doctors and nurses, for example, are not a part of the value chain because they do not create products.

You're understanding of a complex subject is less than elementary. As it is with most of your ilk.


Don't you think health care is a product or service? You have attacked me (ad hominem), and not seriously addressed the topic, just picked at it.

I am heading off to take a tour of the local Mormon temple this morning. They open them up to the general public before their dedication. I wholly recommend the tour to anybody interested in understanding the LDS or their architecture. So, signing off for now.


No...I attacked your level of knowledge. Boo fucking hoo.

Also I love the way you've redefined your position. I believe that's called moving the goalposts...oh well.

The reason I did not address your point seriously is due to the fact that your point was less than sophomoric.
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Abatael
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Founded: Mar 03, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Abatael » Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:58 am

He's a hard-nosed businessman.
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Arkinesia
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Founded: Aug 22, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Arkinesia » Sat Nov 10, 2012 10:10 am

Ravenvalles wrote:I think that it is just economic reality. You can't have "dirty" coal jobs and eliminate the "dirty " coal business.

It is good to see that we can continue to count on the liberals to want their cake and eat it too.

The coal business is being eliminated because it's antiquated.

So yeah, it really is the free market at work. People have determined that there are better sources of energy so coal falls to the wayside.
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Genivaria
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Founded: Mar 29, 2011
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Genivaria » Sat Nov 10, 2012 10:10 am

Khadgar wrote:
Ravenvalles wrote:
No, I mean liberals who believe government funded jobs expand the economy, and are not just another form of being on the dole.


Swhyko clearly you believe the military is equivalent to welfare then? It's a government funded job.

Yes, yes I do. Why else would I be joining it? :D
General Sherman did nothing wrong, fact.
Liberal Social Democrat.

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The UK in Exile
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Ex-Nation

Postby The UK in Exile » Sat Nov 10, 2012 10:12 am

Abatael wrote:He's a hard-nosed businessman.


it has to be hard or he'd struggle to fit it up his own arse.
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Genivaria
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Posts: 62040
Founded: Mar 29, 2011
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Genivaria » Sat Nov 10, 2012 10:17 am

The UK in Exile wrote:
Abatael wrote:He's a hard-nosed businessman.


it has to be hard or he'd struggle to fit it up his own arse.

Damn that guy must be flexible.
General Sherman did nothing wrong, fact.
Liberal Social Democrat.

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The TransPecos
Envoy
 
Posts: 294
Founded: May 14, 2006
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby The TransPecos » Sat Nov 10, 2012 10:19 am

Whatever you may think of Murray, he isn't the only one or the only company doing this. I understand that several companies have announced closures or moves to China because of rising regulatory issues and mandated costs. Locally most (and eventually all?) restaurants are putting everyone on part time so they can avoid health care and other benefits costs.

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Selsada
Envoy
 
Posts: 241
Founded: Sep 01, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Selsada » Sat Nov 10, 2012 10:34 am

I find it ridiculous and outraging to see the CEOs and politicians talking about how Obama restricted individual freedoms, when the big industrials and the CEO up there are always the first to gut the Congress to pass laws that increase "war on terrorism", so much that now drones are flying by some major american city to lead a war not only against "terrorists", but against the people.

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Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f
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Posts: 9191
Founded: Jan 21, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f » Sat Nov 10, 2012 10:35 am

PLEASE DO NOT SEND ME TG's. MODERATORS READ YOUR TG's WITHOUT YOUR PERMISSION.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Flowers Call me Rubi for short or Vonners

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Selsada
Envoy
 
Posts: 241
Founded: Sep 01, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Selsada » Sat Nov 10, 2012 10:40 am

God, If I was a citizens in the U.S, what would I have to suffer...
They talk about freedom, but deny the right other people have to not agree with them.
Sounds like Democracy always work when you agree with it..., huh "libertarians" ?
Last edited by Selsada on Sat Nov 10, 2012 10:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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The Black Forrest
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Black Forrest » Sat Nov 10, 2012 10:45 am

Khadgar wrote:
Ravenvalles wrote:
No, I mean liberals who believe government funded jobs expand the economy, and are not just another form of being on the dole.


So clearly you believe the military is equivalent to welfare then? It's a government funded job.


Like Carlen said. They want live babies so they can make dead soldiers.
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