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by Farnhamia » Sat Nov 10, 2012 11:36 am
by Mavorpen » Sat Nov 10, 2012 11:37 am
by Great Nepal » Sat Nov 10, 2012 11:38 am
by Somali Caliphate » Sat Nov 10, 2012 11:38 am
Farnhamia wrote:Somali Caliphate wrote:
Okay, but what existed before the Big Bang. Because we agree that the universe was created as a result of the Big Bang? Would you care to comment on these excerpts I found:
The fine-tuning of the rate of universal expansion. Steven Hawking wrote: "If the rate of expansion one second after the big bang had been smaller by even one part in a hundred thousand million million, the universe would have re-collapsed before it ever reached its present state." Slightly faster than the critical rate, and matter would have dispersed too rapidly to allow stars and galaxies to form. According to astrophysicist George Smoot the creation event was "finely orchestrated".
The critical ratio of the masses of the proton to the electron is finely adjusted. Says Hawking: "The remarkable fact is that the values of these numbers seem to have been very finely adjusted to make possible the development of life."
The highly ordered initial state of the universe could not have come by chance. According to the calculation of Steve Hawking's associate, Roger Penrose, the highly ordered (low entropy) initial state of the universe is not something that could have occurred by even the wildest chance.
The balance and fine-tuning of the four fundamental forces in nature. Physicists speak of the the four fundamental forces in nature: gravity, electromagnetism, and the strong and weak nuclear forces. Physicist Richard Morris writes: "Every one of these forces must have just the right strength if there is to be any possibility of life."
What are the chances that all the functional proteins necessary for life might form in one place? Hoyle and Wickramasinghe calculated the odds at 1 in 10 40,000, a number far removed from the realm of finite possibilities.
Princeton physicist Freeman Dyson writes, "The more I examine the universe and the details of its architecture, the more evidence I find that the universe in some sense must have known we were coming." NASA astronomer John O'Keefe says, "It is my view that these circumstances indicate that the universe was created for man to live in."
Piffle. A mixture of the anthropomorphizing tendency of people and the Goldilocks Principle.
If conditions were slightly different, if, for instance, we evolved on a methane planet, we'd be saying the same things. And by the way, life didn't require all 40,000 proteins to be lined up, ready and waiting. It only needed a few. That's the thing Creationists always ignore, the fact that evolution allows life to start small and build on success. Because their myth says that "God" created things whole and functioning, ready to go, they assume that any other ideas about the beginnings of life must work the same way.
by Mavorpen » Sat Nov 10, 2012 11:39 am
Somali Caliphate wrote:Is it not arrogant and close-minded to dismiss it right away like that?
Somali Caliphate wrote:Besides whether you're a creationist or not, the fine-tuning of the universe is evident in pretty much everything. But anyway, can I ask this then: Can something non existent regulate itself?
by Ovisterra » Sat Nov 10, 2012 11:39 am
Somali Caliphate wrote:Is it not arrogant and close-minded to dismiss it right away like that? Besides whether you're a creationist or not, the fine-tuning of the universe is evident in pretty much everything.
But anyway, can I ask this then: Can something non existent regulate itself?
by Farnhamia » Sat Nov 10, 2012 11:40 am
Somali Caliphate wrote:Farnhamia wrote:Piffle. A mixture of the anthropomorphizing tendency of people and the Goldilocks Principle.
If conditions were slightly different, if, for instance, we evolved on a methane planet, we'd be saying the same things. And by the way, life didn't require all 40,000 proteins to be lined up, ready and waiting. It only needed a few. That's the thing Creationists always ignore, the fact that evolution allows life to start small and build on success. Because their myth says that "God" created things whole and functioning, ready to go, they assume that any other ideas about the beginnings of life must work the same way.
Is it not arrogant and close-minded to dismiss it right away like that? Besides whether you're a creationist or not, the fine-tuning of the universe is evident in pretty much everything. But anyway, can I ask this then: Can something non existent regulate itself?
by Unchecked Expansion » Sat Nov 10, 2012 11:40 am
by Ovisterra » Sat Nov 10, 2012 11:40 am
Just never mind. It'll get ridiculed anyway.
by Ostroeuropa » Sat Nov 10, 2012 11:41 am
Somali Caliphate wrote:Farnhamia wrote:Piffle. A mixture of the anthropomorphizing tendency of people and the Goldilocks Principle.
If conditions were slightly different, if, for instance, we evolved on a methane planet, we'd be saying the same things. And by the way, life didn't require all 40,000 proteins to be lined up, ready and waiting. It only needed a few. That's the thing Creationists always ignore, the fact that evolution allows life to start small and build on success. Because their myth says that "God" created things whole and functioning, ready to go, they assume that any other ideas about the beginnings of life must work the same way.
Is it not arrogant and close-minded to dismiss it right away like that? Besides whether you're a creationist or not, the fine-tuning of the universe is evident in pretty much everything. But anyway, can I ask this then: Can something non existent regulate itself?
by Somali Caliphate » Sat Nov 10, 2012 11:41 am
Ovisterra wrote:Somali Caliphate wrote:Is it not arrogant and close-minded to dismiss it right away like that? Besides whether you're a creationist or not, the fine-tuning of the universe is evident in pretty much everything.
Except it's really not.But anyway, can I ask this then: Can something non existent regulate itself?
If it's non-existent, it's not going to do much at all.
by Ostroeuropa » Sat Nov 10, 2012 11:41 am
by Divair » Sat Nov 10, 2012 11:41 am
Somali Caliphate wrote:Farnhamia wrote:Piffle. A mixture of the anthropomorphizing tendency of people and the Goldilocks Principle.
If conditions were slightly different, if, for instance, we evolved on a methane planet, we'd be saying the same things. And by the way, life didn't require all 40,000 proteins to be lined up, ready and waiting. It only needed a few. That's the thing Creationists always ignore, the fact that evolution allows life to start small and build on success. Because their myth says that "God" created things whole and functioning, ready to go, they assume that any other ideas about the beginnings of life must work the same way.
Is it not arrogant and close-minded to dismiss it right away like that? Besides whether you're a creationist or not, the fine-tuning of the universe is evident in pretty much everything. But anyway, can I ask this then: Can something non existent regulate itself?
by Immoren » Sat Nov 10, 2012 11:42 am
discoursedrome wrote:everyone knows that quote, "I know not what weapons World War Three will be fought, but World War Four will be fought with sticks and stones," but in a way it's optimistic and inspiring because it suggests that even after destroying civilization and returning to the stone age we'll still be sufficiently globalized and bellicose to have another world war right then and there
by Immoren » Sat Nov 10, 2012 11:42 am
discoursedrome wrote:everyone knows that quote, "I know not what weapons World War Three will be fought, but World War Four will be fought with sticks and stones," but in a way it's optimistic and inspiring because it suggests that even after destroying civilization and returning to the stone age we'll still be sufficiently globalized and bellicose to have another world war right then and there
by Ostroeuropa » Sat Nov 10, 2012 11:43 am
by Torisakia » Sat Nov 10, 2012 11:43 am
Ostroeuropa wrote:Torisakia wrote:Because I want to. What's gonna happen, the government is gonna come busting through my door and arrest me for my beliefs?
No, you'll just mentally cripple yourself and forfeit any right to take part in the discussion.
We don't want to hear about your made up crap. Go away, we're discussing reality
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