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Do you believe in the Theory of Evolution?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Do you believe in the Theory of Evolution?

Yes
662
84%
No
75
10%
Maybe
51
6%
 
Total votes : 788

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Ermarian
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Postby Ermarian » Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:39 pm

"Yes" represents my answer most closely, but the question is worded extremely poorly.

Do you believe in physics or mathematics? In magnetism or electricity?

These terms are meaningless because they use a form of the verb "believe" not applicable to reality. We can believe that a certain thing is true. But believing in something doesn't mean anything.
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Farnhamia
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Postby Farnhamia » Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:41 pm

Ermarian wrote:"Yes" represents my answer most closely, but the question is worded extremely poorly.

Do you believe in physics or mathematics? In magnetism or electricity?

These terms are meaningless because they use a form of the verb "believe" not applicable to reality. We can believe that a certain thing is true. But believing in something doesn't mean anything.

I know, saying "believe" in this context is silly, but people will start threads that way. Staying silent over a minor bit of semantics lets the creationists think they've won.
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Make Earth Great Again: Stop Continental Drift!
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Salandriagado
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Postby Salandriagado » Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:42 pm

That anything exists at all could be said to be proof of god. To admit the absence of a extra-universal object/being would be to suggest that the universe and therefore anything can come out of nothing for no reason at all, an argument which destroys the very basis of logic instantly.


Incorrect. Stuff coming out of nothing is a well known phenomenon. "Nothing" is unstable. Something existing outside the universe, however, completely breaks logic. You may also want to ask yourself what created that god.

Why would any sane group of humans profess to an ideal that renders them no better than anything else?


Because they aren't delusional?

Evolution can also be interpreted to suggest that what exists is superior by virtue of the fact that it does exist compared to all the things that no longer exist. Evolution just being a system to test viability of different types, what succeeds is superior and what fails like all the species we are wiping out are inferior.


For a very, very specific definition of "superior", yes. However, being as we're busily knocking out all those little bits of ecology that keep us alive every day, it's us that we're killing.

Evolution leads to atheism? If God does not exist then the logical conclusion for any sapient being to come to is that one must be made. Either the sapient being becomes the god or he makes it in his image.


Utter and complete bullshit of the first order.

A new belief system, that is what you are proposing here isn't it, will not stand a chance in the market place of people unless it raises and empowers them in some form, above others around them and the natural world.


We don't give a fuck, and it isn't new. It also isn't a belief system. We aren't concerned with what you believe. We are concerned with actual facts.

You are just espousing an extreme deranged form of egalitarianism a jumble of present merged intellectual/social tends.


No, he's stating facts about the current situation. He isn't espousing anything.

Mainly because being pro-life and anti-gay is not only tolerable within Libertarian ideals, but it is in line with the entire philosophy.


No it isn't. It's also irrelevant to the point at hand.

Libertarians believe that the worst thing is aggression against another. Since abortion is aggression against the unborn child, it is not only permittable but admirable to ban abortion.


Nope. But this is equally irrelevant.

Also, libertarians want to take the State out of marriage, hence gay marriage is no longer a possibility and cannot be forced on the people.


Except that marriage has only ever existed as a traditional/legal construct with occasional bits of mysticism tacked on, so if you take the state out, you don't have anything left.

Maintaining a church-state separation could well be impossible if some form of belief system like Sociobiology's drivel further back must be recognized by all the government bureaucrats.


Kindly explain exactly what belief system you think he's espousing, because he isn't. At all. He's condemning a belief system, but not suggesting one.

Politics in the past generation has taken an unusual turn. Saying a church/state separation is a bit like saying a belief/state separation. We also have economy/state separation in the form of the federal reserve. Can a state be valid if it is too disaggregated and broken up? Maybe it is for the better but I am no long entirely sure.


What the fuck are you going on about and what relevance does it have to the validity of the theory of evolution by natural selection?

What's to believe in? It's proven.


I'm going to be nitpicky and point out that it isn't proven, as nothing in science ever is. It simply has an enormous amount of empirical evidence and observation going for it.

The reverse could be said for atheists. The fact that an omnipotent entity who would punish them eternally for leading an immoral life is frightening to some.


Except that one is an empirically tested fact, and the other is demonstrably incorrect in almost every form it is commonly proposed in.

Moral according to whom? Also, there are other factors than just that.


According to ourselves and the vast majority of the human race. That's a lot better than most religions manage.

No.


Why?

No, because it can be incorrect depending on the source, ranging from oneself to society. The absolute standard is God.


Which god? Explaining what the fuck this has to do with anything at all relevant to this discussion would also be good.

No, because if the "morality" came from anywhere except God there is a chance of it being wrong.
Yes, there is an absolute standard. Denying it does not mean it does not exist.


No, the demonstrable and obvious fact that it doesn't exist means that it doesn't exist.

1The Bible says there is only one God, the omnipotent Creator of the universe/multiverse. There are other supernatural beings, yes, but they are not immortal, and they certainly did not create the universe/multiverse, and they were created by God.


The bible also uses various words meaning "god" in the plural regularly throughout the old testament. It's a relic of the fact that Christianity developed from a polytheistic religion where all of the gods except for one (the god of war, I believe) faded into obscurity. Demonstrating why the bible is correct would also be useful to your point, if indeed you have such a thing.
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Anachronous Rex wrote:Good thing most a majority of people aren't so small-minded, and frightened of other's sexuality.

Over 40% (including me), are, so I fixed the post for accuracy.

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Salandriagado wrote:
Notice that the link is to the notes from a university course on probability. You clearly have nothing beyond the most absurdly simplistic understanding of the subject.
By choosing 1, you no longer have 0 probability of choosing 1. End of subject.

(read up the quote stack)

Deal. £3000 do?[/quote]

Of course.[/quote]

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CVT Temp
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Postby CVT Temp » Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:47 pm

I mean, we can actually create a mathematical definition for evolution in terms of the evolutionary algorithm and then write code to deal with abstract instances of evolution, which basically equates to mathematical proof that evolution works. All that remains is to show that biological systems replicate in such a way as to satisfy the minimal criteria required for evolution to apply to them, something which has already been adequately shown time and again. At this point, we've pretty much proven that not only can evolution happen, it pretty much must happen since it's basically impossible to prevent it from happening.
Иф ю кан рид дис, ю ар рили борд ор ю ар Россияне.

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Hurdegaryp
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Postby Hurdegaryp » Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:50 pm

CVT Temp wrote:I mean, we can actually create a mathematical definition for evolution in terms of the evolutionary algorithm and then write code to deal with abstract instances of evolution, which basically equates to mathematical proof that evolution works. All that remains is to show that biological systems replicate in such a way as to satisfy the minimal criteria required for evolution to apply to them, something which has already been adequately shown time and again. At this point, we've pretty much proven that not only can evolution happen, it pretty much must happen since it's basically impossible to prevent it from happening.

Damn, I like that line of thought! I like it a lot!
CVT Temp wrote:I mean, we can actually create a mathematical definition for evolution in terms of the evolutionary algorithm and then write code to deal with abstract instances of evolution, which basically equates to mathematical proof that evolution works. All that remains is to show that biological systems replicate in such a way as to satisfy the minimal criteria required for evolution to apply to them, something which has already been adequately shown time and again. At this point, we've pretty much proven that not only can evolution happen, it pretty much must happen since it's basically impossible to prevent it from happening.

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Straughn
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Founded: Apr 11, 2004
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Straughn » Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:51 pm

Hurdegaryp wrote:
CVT Temp wrote:I mean, we can actually create a mathematical definition for evolution in terms of the evolutionary algorithm and then write code to deal with abstract instances of evolution, which basically equates to mathematical proof that evolution works. All that remains is to show that biological systems replicate in such a way as to satisfy the minimal criteria required for evolution to apply to them, something which has already been adequately shown time and again. At this point, we've pretty much proven that not only can evolution happen, it pretty much must happen since it's basically impossible to prevent it from happening.

Damn, I like that line of thought! I like it a lot!
Yeah, that's pretty well worded for a forum post.

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Farnhamia
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Postby Farnhamia » Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:53 pm

Hurdegaryp wrote:
CVT Temp wrote:I mean, we can actually create a mathematical definition for evolution in terms of the evolutionary algorithm and then write code to deal with abstract instances of evolution, which basically equates to mathematical proof that evolution works. All that remains is to show that biological systems replicate in such a way as to satisfy the minimal criteria required for evolution to apply to them, something which has already been adequately shown time and again. At this point, we've pretty much proven that not only can evolution happen, it pretty much must happen since it's basically impossible to prevent it from happening.

Damn, I like that line of thought! I like it a lot!

That's a designed program! Intelligent design! Aaahhhhahahahahah ... *coughcoughhackwheeze*

Sorry.
Freedom ... or cake. ~ Ashmoria (RIP)
Make Earth Great Again: Stop Continental Drift!
And Jesus was a sailor when he walked upon the water ...
"Make yourself at home, Frank. Hit somebody." RIP Don Rickles
My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right. ~ Carl Schurz
<Sigh> NSG...where even the atheists are Augustinians. ~ The Archregimancy
Now the foot is on the other hand ~ Kannap
RIP Dyakovo

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Hurdegaryp
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Postby Hurdegaryp » Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:53 pm

Straughn wrote:
Hurdegaryp wrote:Damn, I like that line of thought! I like it a lot!
Yeah, that's pretty well worded for a forum post.

Not only that, but it makes so much sense!
CVT Temp wrote:I mean, we can actually create a mathematical definition for evolution in terms of the evolutionary algorithm and then write code to deal with abstract instances of evolution, which basically equates to mathematical proof that evolution works. All that remains is to show that biological systems replicate in such a way as to satisfy the minimal criteria required for evolution to apply to them, something which has already been adequately shown time and again. At this point, we've pretty much proven that not only can evolution happen, it pretty much must happen since it's basically impossible to prevent it from happening.

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CVT Temp
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Postby CVT Temp » Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:54 pm

Uh, thanks guys.

This is a bit embarrassing.
Иф ю кан рид дис, ю ар рили борд ор ю ар Россияне.

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Straughn
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Straughn » Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:55 pm

Hurdegaryp wrote:
Straughn wrote:Yeah, that's pretty well worded for a forum post.

Not only that, but it makes so much sense!

King Missle wrote:That's because sense isn't something that can be made; it's something THAT MUST BE SENSED

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Straughn
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Postby Straughn » Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:55 pm

CVT Temp wrote:Uh, thanks guys.

This is a bit embarrassing.

This seems like a good time for you to quote Jayne Cobb about his swingin' cod.
Bask.

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Hurdegaryp
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Postby Hurdegaryp » Sat Nov 10, 2012 8:11 pm

I just did what I felt I had to do: I put CVT Temp's words in my signature. That way more people get to read it, which I consider to be a good thing.
CVT Temp wrote:I mean, we can actually create a mathematical definition for evolution in terms of the evolutionary algorithm and then write code to deal with abstract instances of evolution, which basically equates to mathematical proof that evolution works. All that remains is to show that biological systems replicate in such a way as to satisfy the minimal criteria required for evolution to apply to them, something which has already been adequately shown time and again. At this point, we've pretty much proven that not only can evolution happen, it pretty much must happen since it's basically impossible to prevent it from happening.

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New Sapienta
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Ex-Nation

Postby New Sapienta » Sat Nov 10, 2012 8:14 pm

I believe in Intelligent Design.

In that, Darwin outlined the theory of evolution quite well, so he was intelligent, and designed how we should be aware of evolution.

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Big Jim P
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Postby Big Jim P » Sat Nov 10, 2012 8:15 pm

New Sapienta wrote:I believe in Intelligent Design.

In that, Darwin outlined the theory of evolution quite well, so he was intelligent, and designed how we should be aware of evolution.


An argument worthy of the opposition.

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New Sapienta
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Postby New Sapienta » Sat Nov 10, 2012 8:17 pm

Big Jim P wrote:
New Sapienta wrote:I believe in Intelligent Design.

In that, Darwin outlined the theory of evolution quite well, so he was intelligent, and designed how we should be aware of evolution.


An argument worthy of the opposition.

Indeed good chap.

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Straughn
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Postby Straughn » Sat Nov 10, 2012 8:17 pm

Farnhamia wrote: Staying silent over a minor bit of semantics lets the creationists think they've won.

aaaaand responding to them with logic or their own lack thereof makes them scream persecution complex ditties, which also lets them think they've won.

like an infant in a store.

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Straughn
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Postby Straughn » Sat Nov 10, 2012 8:18 pm

Hurdegaryp wrote:I just did what I felt I had to do: I put CVT Temp's words in my signature. That way more people get to read it, which I consider to be a good thing.

You're feeling CVT's truthiness out to every hapless internet peruser?
Sounds like some form of selection.

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GSSR
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Postby GSSR » Sat Nov 10, 2012 8:19 pm

No. It is completely absurd
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Farnhamia
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Postby Farnhamia » Sat Nov 10, 2012 8:21 pm

GSSR wrote:No. It is completely absurd

Evolution is absurd? Do tell.
Freedom ... or cake. ~ Ashmoria (RIP)
Make Earth Great Again: Stop Continental Drift!
And Jesus was a sailor when he walked upon the water ...
"Make yourself at home, Frank. Hit somebody." RIP Don Rickles
My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right. ~ Carl Schurz
<Sigh> NSG...where even the atheists are Augustinians. ~ The Archregimancy
Now the foot is on the other hand ~ Kannap
RIP Dyakovo

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New Sapienta
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Postby New Sapienta » Sat Nov 10, 2012 8:21 pm

GSSR wrote:No. It is completely absurd

Because screaming "GOD DID IT" is any less absurd.

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CVT Temp
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Postby CVT Temp » Sat Nov 10, 2012 8:23 pm

Farnhamia wrote:Evolution is absurd? Do tell.


Well it is. I mean, how come everything doesn't evolve at the same level? Why do some things take moon stones, fire stones, etc. to evolve, and why do some things only evolve if you trade them? Some don't evolve unless you trade them with special items, and others only evolve if they like you a lot. Espeon will only evolve if it happens to be really close to you and it decides to evolve during the day.

What a load of absurd, unscientific nonsense!
Иф ю кан рид дис, ю ар рили борд ор ю ар Россияне.

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Farnhamia
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Postby Farnhamia » Sat Nov 10, 2012 8:25 pm

CVT Temp wrote:
Farnhamia wrote:Evolution is absurd? Do tell.


Well it is. I mean, how come everything doesn't evolve at the same level? Why do some things take moon stones, fire stones, etc. to evolve, and why do some things only evolve if you trade them? Some don't evolve unless you trade them with special items, and others only evolve if they like you a lot. Espeon will only evolve if it happens to be really close to you and it decides to evolve during the day.

What a load of absurd, unscientific nonsense!

*summons Guards* And take away his Pokemon cards.
Freedom ... or cake. ~ Ashmoria (RIP)
Make Earth Great Again: Stop Continental Drift!
And Jesus was a sailor when he walked upon the water ...
"Make yourself at home, Frank. Hit somebody." RIP Don Rickles
My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right. ~ Carl Schurz
<Sigh> NSG...where even the atheists are Augustinians. ~ The Archregimancy
Now the foot is on the other hand ~ Kannap
RIP Dyakovo

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Straughn
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Founded: Apr 11, 2004
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Postby Straughn » Sat Nov 10, 2012 8:25 pm

Farnhamia wrote:
GSSR wrote:No. It is completely absurd

Evolution is absurd? Do tell.

There was a button for this on the text-only adventure game, Zork, iirc.
Zzzzzzzzzzzz.

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Straughn
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Postby Straughn » Sat Nov 10, 2012 8:26 pm

Farnhamia wrote:And take away his Pokemon cards.
Nice.
:clap:

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CVT Temp
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Postby CVT Temp » Sat Nov 10, 2012 8:27 pm

But even though evolution is absurd, digimon is totally real.
Иф ю кан рид дис, ю ар рили борд ор ю ар Россияне.

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