Losing The Faith

[Mavorpen]

Violence as self defence my friend

Kamakazi during WWII by the Japanese was in self defense?

[Maudlnya]

That is ridiculously untrue. Now, if you want to get all No True Scotsman about it you can. You could even say the violent ones are missing the point completely, but Buddhists have been perpetrators of violence.

Really? I've never heard of any major religious strife where Buddhists were involved. I suppose you learn something everyday.

Cough Samurai and Shaolin Monks act in self defence Shaolin Monks moreso.

[Mavorpen]

Which didn't stop samurai from making Zen their religion.

basically the violence was a form of self defence

...What? Warfare during the time of the samurai wasn't for self defense, it was mostly for petty things such as land.

[Maudlnya]

Violence as self defence my friend

Kamakazi during WWII by the Japanese was in self defense?

... That I can't say

[CVT Temp]

Violence as self defence my friend

Look up some of the brutal, non-lethal punishments that some of the previous Dali Lama's used to enact.

[Maudlnya]

basically the violence was a form of self defence

...What? Warfare during the time of the samurai wasn't for self defense, it was mostly for petty things such as land.

Yeah... I know

I don't know much about Zen personally, but what I know is that it was mixed with Shinto

[Polonia and Litvania]

Which didn't stop samurai from making Zen their religion.

basically the violence was a form of self defence

Religion, unfortunately, provides a good cover for those who need one.

[Maudlnya]

Violence as self defence my friend

Look up some of the brutal, non-lethal punishments that some of the previous Dali Lama's used to enact.

I frown on Dali Lama personally

[Infinitive]

I have question or two for the atheists here.
Sure, evolution gets rid of the need for a creator of every species. But the probablitity of life- even just the first life, which is needed for evolution to make sense- arising from nothing has been calculated- it is basically 0.
On that note, why can Earth even support life? The Earth has 122 constants- some including gravity, the oxygen level, and the amount of activity inside Earth- that are needed for human life. I have a hard time believing this all arose by chance.
Finally- what even caused the universe? All the evidence shows that the Big Bang was the beginning of the universe. But what caused it? This is the argument in logical order:
1: Everything that has a beginning has a cause.
2: The universe had a beginning.
3: Therefore, the universe had a cause.
Since the natural world cannot have a natural cause, and it being uncaused is, with all the evidence, based on faith and not science, it must have a supernatural cause. Atheists will counter with "God needs a cause too!" but they misunderstand the law of causuality- everything that had a beginning has a cause. Since this supernatural force is outside of the natural world, and time is part of the natural world, this deity would be outside of time, therefore not needing a cause. The existence of a deity disproves anti-miracle claims, which is the only opt-out for people who don't believe in the resurrection. Since there is too much eyewitness testimony for Jesus to be legend, the only options are that the disciples lied, were deceived, or told the truth. The disciples were often killed for what they preached, even when given the chance to deny their teachings, so they couldn't have been lying. The idea that the disciples stole the body not only would require the false premise of them lying, but it was actually first mentioned in writing by a Jew who was afraid the Romans would come after them if they saw what had happened. The Muslim idea that Jesus rose straight to heaven, another person was crucified in his place, and that the disciples mistook his rising into heaven as a resurrection doesn't explain the missing body- don't tell me the SUBSTITUTE rose from the dead! The idea that Jesus survived crucifixion doesn't explain his "risen" appearance: the only opt-out normally left is the idea that miracles are impossible- but I just disproved that, so the only logical option is that Jesus rose from the dead, is God, and told the truth about the Bible.
And don't you relativists give me any crap about the past being unknowable. When you say "There is no truth" I can simply counter with "Is THAT true?"
Finally, the Old Testament laws don't contradict the church, because the New Testament says we no longer have to follow any but the moral laws because Jesus fulfilled Mosaic Law. In fact, this furthers MY argument- why would the disciples give up their lifestyle and risk being persecuted, killed, and possibly damned to hell after death if they were wrong? The truth is, there really is no way to refute the Bible. I hope you fellow Christians out there don't lose your faith, and maybe some of you of other religions consider my argument. Thank you for reading my (very long) argument.

[Khadgar]

That is ridiculously untrue. Now, if you want to get all No True Scotsman about it you can. You could even say the violent ones are missing the point completely, but Buddhists have been perpetrators of violence.

Violence as self defence my friend

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... a-refugees

[Maudlnya]

Did I miss anyone from the talks about Buddhism?

[Maudlnya]

Violence as self defence my friend

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... a-refugees

Military above religion...

[Genivaria]

This is probably the best place to go if you want to lose your faith. NSG in my experience is made up of LOTS of atheists, most of whom know EXACTLY what they're talking about.

As for proof, there is none. That's the point of it being FAITH

Actually I would say 4chan would be the best place to go to become an atheist those people put some crazy crap there

4chan is where you go to lose faith in HUMANITY not god.

[Mavorpen]

...What? Warfare during the time of the samurai wasn't for self defense, it was mostly for petty things such as land.

Yeah... I know

I don't know much about Zen personally, but what I know is that it was mixed with Shinto

As I said, typically the culture of the society that Buddhism is introduced into becomes mixed with Buddhism, including existing religions at the time.

I'm more Zen than anything.

[Maudlnya]

Also should I mention I am a Freudian/Jungian as well

[Maudlnya]

Yeah... I know

I don't know much about Zen personally, but what I know is that it was mixed with Shinto

As I said, typically the culture of the society that Buddhism is introduced into becomes mixed with Buddhism, including existing religions at the time.

I'm more Zen than anything.

And you are correct.

[Maudlnya]

Actually I would say 4chan would be the best place to go to become an atheist those people put some crazy crap there

4chan is where you go to lose faith in HUMANITY not god.

I loved this one XD

[Norsklow]

Also should I mention I am a Freudian/Jungian as well

One or the other if you please.

[Polonia and Litvania]

Actually I would say 4chan would be the best place to go to become an atheist those people put some crazy crap there

4chan is where you go to lose faith in HUMANITY not god.

He's got you there...

[Khadgar]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... a-refugees

Military above religion...

Why would a supposedly pacifistic religion allow military service? Let's take Tibet, before China showed up and slaughtered the people there, it was a theocracy, and not a very nice one. So yes, Buddhism is supposed to be a peaceful detached religion focusing on meditation, in practice, assholes will always use faith to corrupt in their scramble for power.

[Maudlnya]

Also should I mention I am a Freudian/Jungian as well

One or the other if you please.

Fine. Jung... No Freud.... Jung... Argh too tired to be able choose

[Maudlnya]

Military above religion...

Why would a supposedly pacifistic religion allow military service? Let's take Tibet, before China showed up and slaughtered the people there, it was a theocracy, and not a very nice one. So yes, Buddhism is supposed to be a peaceful detached religion focusing on meditation, in practice, assholes will always use faith to corrupt in their scramble for power.

Buddhism is a philosophy. Therefore there are MANY that can twist it for their own uses (Tibet, China, Burma)

[The Land Fomerly Known as Ligerplace]

I have question or two for the atheists here.
Sure, evolution gets rid of the need for a creator of every species. But the probablitity of life- even just the first life, which is needed for evolution to make sense- arising from nothing has been calculated- it is basically 0.
On that note, why can Earth even support life? The Earth has 122 constants- some including gravity, the oxygen level, and the amount of activity inside Earth- that are needed for human life. I have a hard time believing this all arose by chance.
Finally- what even caused the universe? All the evidence shows that the Big Bang was the beginning of the universe. But what caused it? This is the argument in logical order:
1: Everything that has a beginning has a cause.
2: The universe had a beginning.
3: Therefore, the universe had a cause.
Since the natural world cannot have a natural cause, and it being uncaused is, with all the evidence, based on faith and not science, it must have a supernatural cause. Atheists will counter with "God needs a cause too!" but they misunderstand the law of causuality- everything that had a beginning has a cause. Since this supernatural force is outside of the natural world, and time is part of the natural world, this deity would be outside of time, therefore not needing a cause. The existence of a deity disproves anti-miracle claims, which is the only opt-out for people who don't believe in the resurrection. Since there is too much eyewitness testimony for Jesus to be legend, the only options are that the disciples lied, were deceived, or told the truth. The disciples were often killed for what they preached, even when given the chance to deny their teachings, so they couldn't have been lying. The idea that the disciples stole the body not only would require the false premise of them lying, but it was actually first mentioned in writing by a Jew who was afraid the Romans would come after them if they saw what had happened. The Muslim idea that Jesus rose straight to heaven, another person was crucified in his place, and that the disciples mistook his rising into heaven as a resurrection doesn't explain the missing body- don't tell me the SUBSTITUTE rose from the dead! The idea that Jesus survived crucifixion doesn't explain his "risen" appearance: the only opt-out normally left is the idea that miracles are impossible- but I just disproved that, so the only logical option is that Jesus rose from the dead, is God, and told the truth about the Bible.
And don't you relativists give me any crap about the past being unknowable. When you say "There is no truth" I can simply counter with "Is THAT true?"
Finally, the Old Testament laws don't contradict the church, because the New Testament says we no longer have to follow any but the moral laws because Jesus fulfilled Mosaic Law. In fact, this furthers MY argument- why would the disciples give up their lifestyle and risk being persecuted, killed, and possibly damned to hell after death if they were wrong? The truth is, there really is no way to refute the Bible. I hope you fellow Christians out there don't lose your faith, and maybe some of you of other religions consider my argument. Thank you for reading my (very long) argument.

All things have a cause, therefore there is God.

And yet God doesn't need a cause, and can spring from nothing. Yet matter can't do that, even though it would make just as much sense.

First cause is bullshit.

and btw, the conditions are like this because the universe is big, old, and random. Somewhere in the infinite space of reality, life, that random arrangement of atoms, exists as well.

[Mavorpen]

I have question or two for the atheists here.
Sure, evolution gets rid of the need for a creator of every species. But the probablitity of life- even just the first life, which is needed for evolution to make sense- arising from nothing has been calculated- it is basically 0.

No it isn't.

On that note, why can Earth even support life? The Earth has 122 constants- some including gravity, the oxygen level, and the amount of activity inside Earth- that are needed for human life. I have a hard time believing this all arose by chance.

Because the Earth happened to form in the "Goldilocks Zone" and gained water.

Finally- what even caused the universe? All the evidence shows that the Big Bang was the beginning of the universe. But what caused it? This is the argument in logical order:
1: Everything that has a beginning has a cause.
2: The universe had a beginning.
3: Therefore, the universe had a cause.

Number one needs to be proven. As science will tell you, number one is actually false according to Quantum Physics.

Since the natural world cannot have a natural cause, and it being uncaused is, with all the evidence, based on faith and not science, it must have a supernatural cause.

Actually the universe having no cause is based on science. Your claim that everything that has a beginning has a cause is not scientific, however.

Since there is too much eyewitness testimony for Jesus to be legend, the only options are that the disciples lied, were deceived, or told the truth.

What eyewitnesses?

The disciples were often killed for what they preached, even when given the chance to deny their teachings, so they couldn't have been lying.

And people die for being Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, etc. Guess that means they're all right.

[Hebalobia]

Perhaps this blog entry from 2009 will help you decide.

Saturday, June 20, 2009
Of God and Men

What would be your opinion of a man that had the power to save the life of a child but chose not to do so?

Did you read the story of the little girl in California named Colby as reported by the AP? Ten year old Colby wanted very much to see Pixar’s latest movie “Up.” Her parents would have been happy to take her but Colby was far too ill to leave home. You see she was diagnosed with vascular cancer when she was six years old.

A family friend contacted Pixar and the company sent an employee to Colby’s home with the movie on a DVD for a private showing. He also brought with him stuffed dolls of the main characters and other movie memorabilia. Colby was so weak she couldn’t even open her eyes to watch. Her mother had to describe each scene to her. Yet she enjoyed the movie immensely while the Pixar messenger and other family members and friends could only watch helplessly with tears in their eyes.

If any of the onlookers had the power to save Colby do you imagine that anything in the universe could have prevented them from doing so? They were helpless but what about this so-called God?

He’s supposed to be all powerful. Christians tell me that he helps them find their car keys when they lose them. He’s supposed to have created man from dust and woman from the rib of man. He’s supposed to have created everything. So WTF was this God thinking when he created a cancer that can destroy innocent little girls who just want to be able to watch the movie “Up?”

Please tell me what greater purpose could possibly be served by this child becoming deathly ill? A man, any man, would have cured this child if he could. A God who supposedly has the power to cure this child chose not to.

So who is morally superior, the God or the man?

At least Colby got to enjoy the movie she so badly wanted to see. She died later that same night.