Should kids have the choice to opt out of remembrance day

[Zweite Alaje]

Were you expecting me to be ashamed of my history as a Fascist? Sorry bub, but the guilt tip thing doesn't work on me. I do indeed continue to draw some of my beliefs from Fascism and National Socialism, despite my current adherence to Socialism. I respect the militant positions of both ideologies, and I feel that maintaining a vibrant military tradition and discipline within society is a stablizing factor.

Is Bluth simply a supporter of guerilla warfare? If that is so, I'm no opponent of such tactics, infact I find them admirable.

No, I'm an outright pacifist.

FSC means well, but to liken me to violent revolutionaries or resistors is simply not correct.

Then you are a fool. Rigid pacifism is nothing other than cowardice, the unwillingness to come to the defense of your people.

[Franklin Delano Bluth]

No, I'm an outright pacifist.

FSC means well, but to liken me to violent revolutionaries or resistors is simply not correct.

Then you are a fool. Rigid pacifism is nothing other than cowardice, the unwillingness to come to the defense of your people.

It's the exact opposite. It is violence that is cowardly--lashing out because you are afraid rather than being so secure in your commitment that you know it can withstand something as base and thoughtless as your enemy's violence.

[Free South Califas]

Bolding mine. You demonstrate that you don't understand the anti-war movement...

If you are part of the anti-war movement, is that the universal unbiased anti-war movement or the "I'm against all military actions of countries who I personally don't like" kind of anti-war movement?

No movement is one simple, neat platform with no problematic people or ideologies expressed within it. I'm against borders, militaries with official monopoly of force, and hierarchical governments in general. So no, there is not a particular military action taken by a national government which I would support. Obviously, the Nazis had to be stopped, and there may be other dictatorships of today who we would say the same about if it were proven they could be so neutralized by an armed external force; however, I do not support the State or hierarchical militaries, so if I were alive at that time I would have joined and/or otherwise supported a citizens' brigade not aligned with a national government. See my sig if you really want to know about my politics.

[Marquesan]

Then you are a fool. Rigid pacifism is nothing other than cowardice, the unwillingness to come to the defense of your people.

It's the exact opposite. It is violence that is cowardly--lashing out because you are afraid rather than being so secure in your commitment that you know it can withstand something as base and thoughtless as your enemy's violence.

Clearly, noone has ever shot at you in anger or actively tried to blow your brains out the front of your skull.

[SD_Film Artists]

Then you are a fool. Rigid pacifism is nothing other than cowardice, the unwillingness to come to the defense of your people.

It's the exact opposite. It is violence that is cowardly--lashing out because you are afraid rather than being so secure in your commitment that you know it can withstand something as base and thoughtless as your enemy's violence.

Again, how can you protect your free nation when you are invaded by a foreign power who would seek to end it?

[Free South Califas]

It's pretty much completely absurd to conflate anti-militarism with British collaborationist policies. And pretty rich, I might add, coming from an admirer of Mein Kampf. (Sorry, it's true - you did admire that book, and you can't wash that away.) Franklin Delano Bluth is in the same tradition as the Russian revolutionaries who forced the new Bolshevik regime to withdraw from WW1 (obviously a very different war), and the French Resistance which opposed the vichy state with effective, organized acts of violent disruption. FDB is resolutely not from the tradition of Neville Chamberlain, who exemplifies much of what I suspect FDB despises in a statist and a collaborator to boot.

Were you expecting me to be ashamed of my history as a Fascist? Sorry bub, but the guilt tip thing doesn't work on me.

Not to worry; I care not a whit about your emotional reaction to my words, nor would I know how to incite it so precisely. I'm autistic; see my sig.

I do indeed continue to draw some of my beliefs from Fascism and National Socialism, despite my current adherence to Socialism. I respect the militant positions of both ideologies, and I feel that maintaining a vibrant military tradition and discipline within society is a stablizing factor.

Yes, of course you do.

Were you expecting me to be ashamed of my history as a Fascist? Sorry bub, but the guilt tip thing doesn't work on me. I do indeed continue to draw some of my beliefs from Fascism and National Socialism, despite my current adherence to Socialism. I respect the militant positions of both ideologies, and I feel that maintaining a vibrant military tradition and discipline within society is a stablizing factor.

Is Bluth simply a supporter of guerilla warfare? If that is so, I'm no opponent of such tactics, infact I find them admirable.

No, I'm an outright pacifist. I find the military a particularly reprehensible institution since it is dedicated to violence in support of the state and ostensibly does so in the name of "the people" (of which I am one), but I deny the legitimacy of violence wherever it appears.

FSC means well, but to liken me to violent revolutionaries or resistors is simply not correct.

Fair enough. Still, I highly doubt FDB advocates simply bending to the will of any despotic government that comes crashing through. The question of whether the Winter Palace was seized by guns or by the noise of a million jangling keys is important for other discussions of history, but not quite the distinction I was after.

[Marquesan]

If you are part of the anti-war movement, is that the universal unbiased anti-war movement or the "I'm against all military actions of countries who I personally don't like" kind of anti-war movement?

No movement is one simple, neat platform with no problematic people or ideologies expressed within it. I'm against borders, militaries with official monopoly of force, and hierarchical governments in general. So no, there is not a particular military action taken by a national government which I would support. Obviously, the Nazis had to be stopped, and there may be other dictatorships of today who we would say the same about if it were proven they could be so neutralized by an armed external force; however, I do not support the State or hierarchical militaries, so if I were alive at that time I would have joined and/or otherwise supported a citizens' brigade not aligned with a national government. See my sig if you really want to know about my politics.

So...you don't see the irony in expressing, over the internet, that you don't support the state, right?
Since..ya know... your computer was bought with money that was paid to a company that paid taxes to the state.
And the electricity that powers it was provided by state-subsidized if not state owned and operated power generation.
And the home that you live in is on land that is taxed by the state.
And everything you buy has a component of tax in it...and when you pay your income taxes, you will be directly supporting the state.
...And if you live in a country where medical care is provided by the state, you owe your health and well-being to the state.
And most likely, your education is due in whole or in part to state-provided or state subsidized schooling.

I think you've been supporting the state since the minute you were born.

[Franklin Delano Bluth]

Were you expecting me to be ashamed of my history as a Fascist? Sorry bub, but the guilt tip thing doesn't work on me.

Not to worry; I care not a whit about your emotional reaction to my words, nor would I know how to incite it so precisely. I'm autistic; see my sig.

I do indeed continue to draw some of my beliefs from Fascism and National Socialism, despite my current adherence to Socialism. I respect the militant positions of both ideologies, and I feel that maintaining a vibrant military tradition and discipline within society is a stablizing factor.

Yes, of course you do.

No, I'm an outright pacifist. I find the military a particularly reprehensible institution since it is dedicated to violence in support of the state and ostensibly does so in the name of "the people" (of which I am one), but I deny the legitimacy of violence wherever it appears.

FSC means well, but to liken me to violent revolutionaries or resistors is simply not correct.

Fair enough. Still, I highly doubt FDB advocates simply bending to the will of any despotic government that comes crashing through.

Indeed, that's what that whole "peaceful non-compliance" thing I mentioned earlier is all about.

[SD_Film Artists]

If you are part of the anti-war movement, is that the universal unbiased anti-war movement or the "I'm against all military actions of countries who I personally don't like" kind of anti-war movement?

No movement is one simple, neat platform with no problematic people or ideologies expressed within it. I'm against borders, militaries with official monopoly of force, and hierarchical governments in general. So no, there is not a particular military action taken by a national government which I would support. Obviously, the Nazis had to be stopped, and there may be other dictatorships of today who we would say the same about if it were proven they could be so neutralized by an armed external force; however, I do not support the State or hierarchical militaries, so if I were alive at that time I would have joined and/or otherwise supported a citizens' brigade not aligned with a national government. See my sig if you really want to know about my politics.

Just that "anti-imperialism" in the far-left is all too often just a polite by-word for "anti-[government who I don't like]". If it were real anti-imperialism, then it would be against all imperialism rather than just replacing one foreign influence for another. When you get down to it, imperialism is simply the furthering of a nation's interests; which then makes all nations imperialist.

[Charellia]

If it's in the context of a school then no, they should go just as they'd go to any history lesson. Though if it's in the context of a national ceremony, then that's up to the parents- I don't see why they'd have a reason not to, but they shouldn't be forced to.

Remembrance Day isn't an ordinary history lesson though. At my school there is very little actual emphasis on history in it. When you think about it it's actually kind of political since it tends to assume that the wars were justified which they almost never were. That being said I'll still go.

[Franklin Delano Bluth]

So...you don't see the irony in expressing, over the internet, that you don't support the state, right?

No irony at all. Your position seems to amount to "Anyone who has any objections whatsoever to the status quo has to commit suicide in order to avoid staining himself."

Getting along as best I can in the current system that is forced upon me because at the moment I have no other choice does not preclude me from denying the moral legitimacy of that system and working towards alternatives.

[Free South Califas]

No movement is one simple, neat platform with no problematic people or ideologies expressed within it. I'm against borders, militaries with official monopoly of force, and hierarchical governments in general. So no, there is not a particular military action taken by a national government which I would support. Obviously, the Nazis had to be stopped, and there may be other dictatorships of today who we would say the same about if it were proven they could be so neutralized by an armed external force; however, I do not support the State or hierarchical militaries, so if I were alive at that time I would have joined and/or otherwise supported a citizens' brigade not aligned with a national government. See my sig if you really want to know about my politics.

So...you don't see the irony in expressing, over the internet, that you don't support the state, right?

Where did you come up with a bizarre assumption like that? Besides, the Internet is as much a story of public works projects and federal defense agreements as it is of statecraft per se. More than that, its foundation is a story of visionaries and skilled technicians and computer scientists, which itself has almost nothing to do with how one federates with one's neighbors to fund the project.

Since..ya know... your computer was bought with money that was paid to a company that paid taxes to the state.
And the electricity that powers it was provided by state-subsidized if not state owned and operated power generation.
And the home that you live in is on land that is taxed by the state.
And everything you buy has a component of tax in it...and when you pay your income taxes, you will be directly supporting the state.
...And if you live in a country where medical care is provided by the state, you owe your health and well-being to the state.
And most likely, your education is due in whole or in part to state-provided or state subsidized schooling.

I think you've been supporting the state since the minute you were born.

I think you ought to stop putting words in my mouth. Also, it is hardly rational to tell a supporter of expropriation that he is some sort of anti-tax, anti-commons, and anti-public-works nut--the two ideological concepts are diametrically opposed. Feraynssakes, my sig tells you I'm a socialist.

[Franklin Delano Bluth]

No movement is one simple, neat platform with no problematic people or ideologies expressed within it. I'm against borders, militaries with official monopoly of force, and hierarchical governments in general. So no, there is not a particular military action taken by a national government which I would support. Obviously, the Nazis had to be stopped, and there may be other dictatorships of today who we would say the same about if it were proven they could be so neutralized by an armed external force; however, I do not support the State or hierarchical militaries, so if I were alive at that time I would have joined and/or otherwise supported a citizens' brigade not aligned with a national government. See my sig if you really want to know about my politics.

Just that "anti-imperialism" in the far-left is all too often just a polite by-word for "anti-[government who I don't like]". If it were real anti-imperialism, then it would be against all imperialism rather than just replacing one foreign influence for another.

When Lesotho starts engaging in imperial conquest abroad, I'll oppose Lesothoan (what's the demonym) imperialism too.

[Free South Califas]

No movement is one simple, neat platform with no problematic people or ideologies expressed within it. I'm against borders, militaries with official monopoly of force, and hierarchical governments in general. So no, there is not a particular military action taken by a national government which I would support. Obviously, the Nazis had to be stopped, and there may be other dictatorships of today who we would say the same about if it were proven they could be so neutralized by an armed external force; however, I do not support the State or hierarchical militaries, so if I were alive at that time I would have joined and/or otherwise supported a citizens' brigade not aligned with a national government. See my sig if you really want to know about my politics.

Just that "anti-imperialism" in the far-left is all too often just a polite by-word for "anti-[government who I don't like]".

Yes, clearly I'm a carbon copy of one too many Iranian politicos. That makes sense. Of course, you get to pick which batch of politicos I'm a copy of.

If it were real anti-imperialism, then it would be against all imperialism rather than just replacing one foreign influence for another. When you get down to it, imperialism is simply the furthering of a nation's interests; which then makes all nations imperialist.

I just said I was against nations.

[SD_Film Artists]

Just that "anti-imperialism" in the far-left is all too often just a polite by-word for "anti-[government who I don't like]".

Yes, clearly I'm a carbon copy of one too many Iranian politicos. That makes sense. Of course, you get to pick which batch of politicos I'm a copy of.

If it were real anti-imperialism, then it would be against all imperialism rather than just replacing one foreign influence for another. When you get down to it, imperialism is simply the furthering of a nation's interests; which then makes all nations imperialist.

I just said I was against nations.

Yes, but you also said "imperialist aggressors", as if you were following the mantra.

Anyway, I'm not going to turn this into a thread about anarchism.

[The Zeonic States]

I don’t know how to speak a answer to this question.

Whether as a citizen of a Nation that encourages Freedom of expression and speech or as a former soldier.

However people who die in the service people who have bled on foreign and domestic soil should be remembered, I know men who never even got brought back to their land of birth they were laid out and buried in ditches along the road.

But to force people to remember them?

No honestly I don’t think that should be the intent of this day, this is a day of recalling people who have given the last thing they could give for their country.

I gave an earlobe and a portion of my knee not nearly as much as some have given but I believe that forcing people to attend a day set out for remembering the dead is spitting on what they died for in this case freedom.

However people should not have the need to be forced to honor these people, If they have no compulsion to see these men honored then how can they honor what these people gave for their Nation?

It’s a quandary I have argued with myself over ever since seeing this thread.

Ultimately the answer to this question is a no but the people who should be there to honor these people this people will not be there if offered choice in the matter.

So is yes also correct?

Sometimes I wish the Tao gave me more wisdom into the heart of such issues but I have no real answer for this question.

Can't seem to find an author for this slightly paraphrased quote, but...

"A veteran is someone who, at one point in his/her life, wrote a blank check made payable to (insert country here) for any amount, up to and including his/her life. "

And another..

"For those that will fight for it Freedom has a taste the protected shall never know." ~ General George S. Patton

I think those of us that have serve/served, fought, bled for our freedoms see it inherently differently. We know the risks and we stick our necks out anyway.

Freedom is nothing but an Abstract concept freind until you fight to defend it or until you try to give it to people whom have never had it for generation after generation.

My drill instructor said that to our graduating class.

I knew he was telling the truth right then but i wish that people were more aware of the Hells of war, that it was not so Alien to them that they would not need justification to honor the dead.

But perhaps that is also why soldiers exist? To keep it alien to people who would not survive its horrors.

I suppose i can be content in people not honoring the dead if they choose to do so of their own free will.

But i am not the dead, and no one will recall their names there will be no tribute to them besides a empty grave in some cementary.

From the Burning Wreckage of Kabul to the badlands of Iraq that is their tribute i think.

Even if no one remembers who fought and died there those Battle fields will remember their names, who they prayed too, who sat besides them or if they were alone as they died out on foreign or native soil.

But now i am begining to rant i believe i will cut this short no doubt people will be getting tired of me waxing poetic.

[Manahakatouki]

I see no reason why not...

A friend of mine gets out of a particularly sad assembly we have every year, but that's because she cries...

I can see the same thing happening perhaps for some people on Remembrance Day...

[Free South Califas]

Yes, clearly I'm a carbon copy of one too many Iranian politicos. That makes sense. Of course, you get to pick which batch of politicos I'm a copy of.



I just said I was against nations.

Yes, but you also said "imperialist agressors", as if you were following the mantra.

Seriously, and with no ill will toward you as a person, fuck your mantra. I don't care if other people use similar words in ways you don't like - empire has a meaning, imperialist is a natural derivation of imperial in the English language; aggression has a meaning, aggressor is a natural deviation of aggression, and I use words that mean things because I'm trying to communicate with you, since you insist on doing this here.

ETA:

Anyway, I'm not going to turn this into a thread about anarchism.

Could've fooled me! Next time you want to ask irrelevant questions about my politics, just read my sig instead. I made it for people like you, people who have questions about my politics. It's all laid out quite neatly there, and depending on how open I'm feeling on a given day, I might even answer questions by TG.

[Strykla]

Brutally disrespectful it may be, but Western nations are supposed to be free. For better or worse.

[SD_Film Artists]

Just that "anti-imperialism" in the far-left is all too often just a polite by-word for "anti-[government who I don't like]". If it were real anti-imperialism, then it would be against all imperialism rather than just replacing one foreign influence for another.

When Lesotho starts engaging in imperial conquest abroad, I'll oppose Lesothoan (what's the demonym) imperialism too.

Fair enough, though I still don't know how you can stop a military invading your free society when you have no military to protect it, or why having your own military automaticaly means that your society isn't free.

[Marquesan]

Can't seem to find an author for this slightly paraphrased quote, but...

"A veteran is someone who, at one point in his/her life, wrote a blank check made payable to (insert country here) for any amount, up to and including his/her life. "

And another..

"For those that will fight for it Freedom has a taste the protected shall never know." ~ General George S. Patton

I think those of us that have serve/served, fought, bled for our freedoms see it inherently differently. We know the risks and we stick our necks out anyway.

Freedom is nothing but an Abstract concept freind until you fight to defend it or until you try to give it to people whom have never had it for generation after generation.

My drill instructor said that to our graduating class.

I knew he was telling the truth right then but i wish that people were more aware of the Hells of war, that it was not so Alien to them that they would not need justification to honor the dead.

But perhaps that is also why soldiers exist? To keep it alien to people who would not survive its horrors.

I suppose i can be content in people not honoring the dead if they choose to do so of their own free will.

But i am not the dead, and no one will recall their names there will be no tribute to them besides a empty grave in some cementary.

From the Burning Wreckage of Kabul to the badlands of Iraq that is their tribute i think.

Even if no one remembers who fought and died there those Battle fields will remember their names, who they prayed too, who sat besides them or if they were alone as they died out on foreign or native soil.

But now i am begining to rant i believe i will cut this short no doubt people will be getting tired of me waxing poetic.

You, sir. Thank you. Even among military men, there are a lot who don't appear to get it.
I think I'm gonna call some of my guys from Afghanistan and Iraq now. Get off this computer for a while.
Thank you for that. Think I may drive up to Santa Fe and walk the rows at the veteran's cemetery, too. See my grandfather.
See some of my guys that didn't make it home standing up. Thank you for your service.

[Threlizdun]

Of course they should. Denying freedom to honor those who supposedly fought for it is one of the most absurd notions I can imagine.

[SD_Film Artists]

ETA:

Anyway, I'm not going to turn this into a thread about anarchism.

Could've fooled me! Next time you want to ask irrelevant questions about my politics, just read my sig instead. I made it for people like you, people who have questions about my politics. It's all laid out quite neatly there, and depending on how open I'm feeling on a given day, I might even answer questions by TG.

Well I could have asked you about how you support a borderless world yet with no government to unite the world, or how you don't support....."the State or hierarchical militaries" yet also want the protection of pooled resources and organisation, but that would be kinda talking about anarchy...

[Camicon]

*snip*

Misleading OP is misleading.

The celebrations are being held by the school, during school hours. This makes attendance compulsory for students of said schools (i.e. all of them).
Traditionally, the parents of students have been allowed to contact the school and have their child exempt from the celebrations for a few specific reasons (source doesn't mention what they are. I imagine religious or cultural grounds). Now, the schools are essentially saying "Hey, if you don't want your kid going to this, tell us. We don't care why anymore".

The students have never had the option to opt out, and they still don't. The parents had the option to opt their children out of the school event, and they still do. Now, the schools just don't care why you're opting out.

[Novaya Tselinoyarsk]

It should not be compulsory, but should be heavily encouraged.