Should kids have the choice to opt out of remembrance day

[Yewhohohopia]

That insinuates that people grow up in a bubble which isn't influenced by the culture and politics of their nation.

Yes. The 'security of place' which all that patriotism brings is dangerous, and it should be destroyed, always.

Though I'd agree with you that it's wrong if people extended that to national genetics, as that's a very dangerous and racist precedent.

It's possibly less offensive to me to talk about national genetics than national achievements.

"Oh right ok yes I do hail from the historical loins as some of my countrytypes, such as that's a thing" = true
"I feel entitled to be proud of RADAR or whatever" = nope

Well as the saying goes- "those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it".

For starters, you can't repeat the past, and secondly, things in the past happened for reasons which were compelling to people in the past, so humans being as they are, things are unlikely to change all that much over time.

[Ifreann]

I suppose if there's something to learn from the ceremony then send them along, but sending every student every year? Waste of a day, if you ask me.

[Franklin Delano Bluth]

I think that they should have respect for these people who died, even if they don't have a direct connection to them.
I'm not very big on "support your country, they do no wrong, etc..." but if I died defending it

But that's the exact opposite of what soldiers do.

[SD_Film Artists]

That insinuates that people grow up in a bubble which isn't influenced by the culture and politics of their nation.

Yes. The 'security of place' which all that patriotism brings is dangerous, and it should be destroyed, always.

By 'security of place', you mean people acting as if their nation is somekind of unchanging entity cast in stone since time immemorial, yes, that is a dangerous concept.

Well as the saying goes- "those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it".

For starters, you can't repeat the past, and secondly, things in the past happened for reasons which were compelling to people in the past, so humans being as they are, things are unlikely to change all that much over time.

I think you're taking it too literally.

[Yewhohohopia]

By 'security of place', you mean people acting as if their nation is somekind of unchanging entity cast in stone since time immemorial, yes, that is a dangerous concept.

No, what I mean is that kind of contentment and soft prejudice which people get from things not changing enough. Stick a bomb up it.

I think you're taking it too literally.

There are no lessons from history. This is the one lesson from history.

[SD_Film Artists]

There are no lessons from history. This is the one lesson from history.

Wow

[Grand Soviet Union]

Personally I think that kids should have to attend the ceremonies just to see what they are like. I will say once either in High school they are able to decide for them selves. and should be allowed to make the decision on wether to go or not.

[Quintero]

Of course they should be able to opt out.

This.

[Radiatia]

Why would you want to opt out? Don't people have any respect these days?

[Souseiseki]

Why would you want to opt out? Don't people have any respect these days?

give it a real hard think

[Franklin Delano Bluth]

Why would you want to opt out? Don't people have any respect these days?

What respect, exactly, is owed here?

[Anacasppia]

I think that they should have respect for these people who died, even if they don't have a direct connection to them.
I'm not very big on "support your country, they do no wrong, etc..." but if I died defending it

But that's the exact opposite of what soldiers do.

Hmm. Being a blanket statement, that is highly subjective.

Granted, the number of 'soldiers dying defending their country' can be said to be fewer today than before (i.e the 20th century). Regardless, I'm sure French soldiers whom had died defending France during WW2 deserve our respect, don't they?

Also, there are other things soldiers might be respected for, an example being WW2 again (i.e fighting for liberty). I mean, surely Allied soldiers who died fighting the Third Reich deserve respect, no? Can we imagine what the world would have become, otherwise?

[Franklin Delano Bluth]

But that's the exact opposite of what soldiers do.

Hmm. Being a blanket statement, that is highly subjective.

Granted, the number of 'soldiers dying defending their country' can be said to be fewer today than before (i.e the 20th century). Regardless, I'm sure French soldiers whom had died defending France during WW2 deserve our respect, don't they?

Why? They responded to violence with violence, only begetting more violence.

I mean, surely Allied soldiers who died fighting the Third Reich deserve respect, no? Can we imagine what the world would have become, otherwise?

Indeed, we can: the Third Reich would have collapsed sooner, meaning the Holocaust would have ended earlier, we wouldn't have been on the brink of nuclear extermination for the next forty-five years, etc., etc., etc.

[Souseiseki]

Hmm. Being a blanket statement, that is highly subjective.

Granted, the number of 'soldiers dying defending their country' can be said to be fewer today than before (i.e the 20th century). Regardless, I'm sure French soldiers whom had died defending France during WW2 deserve our respect, don't they?

Why? They responded to violence with violence, only begetting more violence.

I mean, surely Allied soldiers who died fighting the Third Reich deserve respect, no? Can we imagine what the world would have become, otherwise?

Indeed, we can: the Third Reich would have collapsed sooner, meaning the Holocaust would have ended earlier, we wouldn't have been on the brink of nuclear extermination for the next forty-five years, etc., etc., etc.

what

[Zweite Alaje]

Why would you want to opt out? Don't people have any respect these days?

What respect, exactly, is owed here?

Sacrificing oneself so that your countrymen may continue their way of life.

[Souseiseki]

What respect, exactly, is owed here?

Sacrificing oneself so that your countrymen may continue their way of life.

maybe if you guys said "support the troops (but only the good ones in the good wars)" you'd be more successful? i dunno.

[Anacasppia]

Hmm. Being a blanket statement, that is highly subjective.

Granted, the number of 'soldiers dying defending their country' can be said to be fewer today than before (i.e the 20th century). Regardless, I'm sure French soldiers whom had died defending France during WW2 deserve our respect, don't they?

Why? They responded to violence with violence, only begetting more violence.

I mean, surely Allied soldiers who died fighting the Third Reich deserve respect, no? Can we imagine what the world would have become, otherwise?

Indeed, we can: the Third Reich would have collapsed sooner, meaning the Holocaust would have ended earlier, we wouldn't have been on the brink of nuclear extermination for the next forty-five years, etc., etc., etc.

Care to elaborate how it would have collapsed earlier? Now that's hard to imagine given the Nazi party was elected into power.

[Quintero]

"Sacrificing oneself" with the purpose of murdering others does not warrant anything but repulsion and disapproval.

[Franklin Delano Bluth]

What respect, exactly, is owed here?

Sacrificing oneself so that your countrymen may continue their way of life.

Of course, that's the exact opposite of what they do.

Leaving aside, for a minute, the horrifically reactionary nature of thinking in terms of "my countryment" and "our way of life."

[Zweite Alaje]

Sacrificing oneself so that your countrymen may continue their way of life.

maybe if you guys said "support the troops (but only the good ones in the good wars)" you'd be more successful? i dunno.

True. I wish my nation (the USA) was wiser at picking its battles. The recent Iraqi and Afghan wars were a total waste of life.

[Ifreann]

Why would you want to opt out? Don't people have any respect these days?

I don't know about you, but I often find that I have better things to do with my time than think about veterans.

[Aggicificicerous]

do you mourn the anniversary of john does death? that's probably what he meant!

I think that Aggicificicerous was comming form an 'anarcho-WTF' prespective where any teaching/support of a national institution, no matter how factual and unbiased, is automatically considered "jingoistic propaganda!!!1"

No. I am simply disgusted with how we were constantly being told that these soldiers died to preserve our "freedom" (complete nonsense), and that if we didn't remember them every year by way of this long and idiotic ceremony, we would be dishonouring their memories.

Let me see if I can give an analogy. It's like when I listen to the CBC's report on Afghanistan, and they announce two more Canadian soldiers were killed in a bomb attack. Also, 15 Afghani civilians were killed, but the rest of the report is dedicated to interviewing the friends and family of the two soldiers, who tell us what decent, kindhearted fellows they were, how fervently they believed in the cause, and other insipid bullshit. First off, I don't care. Perhaps that sounds harsh, but Dunbar's Number is an unfortunate reality. Second, trying to make me care more about two people I don't know over 15 people I don't know just because those two people were accidentally born in the same I country I was is a perfect example of why I detest patriotism.

The simple fact is, nothing makes these soldiers, regardless of whether they died in Afghanistan or in World War 1, more important than the millions of other peoeple who die every year and are forgotten by the world. But more importantly, I dislike how their deaths are used as an excuse to drum up patriotic fervour. Inevitably they bring up the quote "Those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it." Thing is, I am familiar with history, which is why I know that these wars were such a crock. If they simply wanted to mention that millions of people were killed in wars over the twentieth century and that it was brutal, I wouldn't mind enough to complain.

[Zweite Alaje]

Sacrificing oneself so that your countrymen may continue their way of life.

Of course, that's the exact opposite of what they do.

Leaving aside, for a minute, the horrifically reactionary nature of thinking in terms of "my countryment" and "our way of life."

Once again NSG, me a reactionary!?!?!

How is coming to the defense of your people "reactionary" in any way? What is it the you hate so much about the concept of being a solider? All soliders I've ever met are more civilized, more intelligent than any hippie pacifist I've come across. Civilians, for the most part, have no concept of honor.

[Souseiseki]

Of course, that's the exact opposite of what they do.

Leaving aside, for a minute, the horrifically reactionary nature of thinking in terms of "my countryment" and "our way of life."

Once again NSG, me a reactionary!?!?!

How is coming to the defense of your people "reactionary" in any way? What is it the you hate so much about the concept of being a solider? All soliders I've ever met are more civilized, more intelligent than any hippie pacifist I've come across. Civilians, for the most part, have no concept of honor.

guy with anime flag here to tell all y'all about your lack of honour compared to our nations warriors

[Zweite Alaje]

Once again NSG, me a reactionary!?!?!

How is coming to the defense of your people "reactionary" in any way? What is it the you hate so much about the concept of being a solider? All soliders I've ever met are more civilized, more intelligent than any hippie pacifist I've come across. Civilians, for the most part, have no concept of honor.

guy with anime flag here to tell all y'all about your lack of honour compared to our nations warriors

What does ones media preferences have to do with ones honor?