How can a Christian be Republican or vice versa?

[Encara]

First let me ask that if you don't have a valid logical point please don't post, I'm not doing this to troll and as such I am not asking for Flamers or people to derail this discussion. With that said here is my question/point of view.

Whereas Christians by both name and definition are "those who follow the teachings and ideals of Jesus Christ" (including; Catholics, Mormons, Lutherans, Protestants, etc.) and Republicans whose ideals are defined by there own party platforms are diametrically opposed. And whereas in a democratic society a pesrons beliefs should match their choice in either party or candidate, I pose the question how can one be both?

To illustrate the opposing ideals I will hit a small few talking points but feel free to weigh in on others that I may have missed or may point in favor of the two being related.

1) republican platforms have long fought against social programs such as unemployment, social security, Medicare and any form of socialized medicine. However Christ in coontrast taught to put the needs of others before the needs of self, healed the sick, blind, etc. (with no mention of him requiring payment of gold or silver). So how can you justify as a Republican Christian a lack of belief in helping the less fortunate.

2) republicans have long been known for there stance on immigration law and the desire to eliminate immigrants from coming into our land, taking our jobs, draining our tax dollars etc. however Leviticus (yes the same book republicans use to site homosexuality as an abomination) directly states 19:33 "the stranger who sojourns (travels) among you shall be to you as the native among you and you shall love him as you love yourself; for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the lord your god." now this is a direct order of god in which Republicans rally against. Also in Leviticus we are told not to plow the entirety of our fields or pick allow our crops that some be left for sojourners. So to be Christian the only logical rational would be to support immigration and want to create social programs for there betterment and care.

3)Republicans are strong advocates of capitalism & unregulated big business. A predatory system in which one rises by taking advantage of those without. Christ again taught lessons that are in summation which would be defined nowadays as socialist, capitalism's direct philosophical opposition.

I could go on to reinforce my belief that Republican platforms are in logical opposition to Christian beliefs but I would like to here some well thought out rationale on why these two philosophy's seem to have people who think they devoutly believe both.

(and apologies for any typos auto-correct sometimes bests my observation while typing.)

[Vetalia]

I think few, if any Republicans are honestly anti-immigration; certainly many are against illegal immigration, which carries with it a whole host of problems.

[The Land Fomerly Known as Ligerplace]

Because being a Christian doesn't mean you can't be a hypocrite.

Unless someone who tells you to give away all your possessions also believes that "Greed is good".

[Ifreann]

I hear they get a chip implanted.

[Srboslavija]

I hear they get a chip implanted.

Can you provide a link to back up these claims?

[Ifreann]

I hear they get a chip implanted.

Can you provide a link to back up these claims?

Sure.

[Vetalia]

Sure.

I BET THE JEWS DID THIS

[Srboslavija]

Can you provide a link to back up these claims?

Sure.

Link doesn't work.

I think you might be making it up about the chip thing.

[The Land Fomerly Known as Ligerplace]

Sure.

Link doesn't work.

I think you might be making it up about the chip thing.

I'm pretty sure it works, it goes to a legitimate source for me.

[AiliailiA]

First let me ask that if you don't have a valid logical point please don't post, I'm not doing this to troll and as such I am not asking for Flamers or people to derail this discussion. With that said here is my question/point of view.

Whereas Christians by both name and definition are "those who follow the teachings and ideals of Jesus Christ" (including; Catholics, Mormons, Lutherans, Protestants, etc.) and Republicans whose ideals are defined by there own party platforms are diametrically opposed. And whereas in a democratic society a pesrons beliefs should match their choice in either party or candidate, I pose the question how can one be both?

To illustrate the opposing ideals I will hit a small few talking points but feel free to weigh in on others that I may have missed or may point in favor of the two being related.

1) republican platforms have long fought against social programs such as unemployment, social security, Medicare and any form of socialized medicine. However Christ in coontrast taught to put the needs of others before the needs of self, healed the sick, blind, etc. (with no mention of him requiring payment of gold or silver). So how can you justify as a Republican Christian a lack of belief in helping the less fortunate.

2) republicans have long been known for there stance on immigration law and the desire to eliminate immigrants from coming into our land, taking our jobs, draining our tax dollars etc. however Leviticus (yes the same book republicans use to site homosexuality as an abomination) directly states 19:33 "the stranger who sojourns (travels) among you shall be to you as the native among you and you shall love him as you love yourself; for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the lord your god." now this is a direct order of god in which Republicans rally against. Also in Leviticus we are told not to plow the entirety of our fields or pick allow our crops that some be left for sojourners. So to be Christian the only logical rational would be to support immigration and want to create social programs for there betterment and care.

3)Republicans are strong advocates of capitalism & unregulated big business. A predatory system in which one rises by taking advantage of those without. Christ again taught lessons that are in summation which would be defined nowadays as socialist, capitalism's direct philosophical opposition.

I suppose they could justify it thus: "being Christian" is a code of personal conduct, ie how one person should treat another, and the only judge of whether you do that is God. The State however is not a person, and if it tries to "be Christian" it stands between people and each other, and between people and their God. Love one another, not the State. "Render unto Caesar" and so on ...

I don't think that really works though, because the religious right (ie, not all Republicans necessarily, and sometimes Democrats) are also the ones who want to ban things because it says in the Bible that they're wrong. I don't see how they could hold that the State shouldn't do any of the good Christian things but it can punish people for being un-Christian. Shouldn't that also be between a person and their God?

Luckily for me, I'm neither a Christian nor a Republican

I could go on to reinforce my belief that Republican platforms are in logical opposition to Christian beliefs but I would like to here some well thought out rationale on why these two philosophy's seem to have people who think they devoutly believe both.

It might be worth considering that Republicans don't necessarily want to go to the extremes (like NO welfare, NO immigration, etc) that you attribute to them. They make ambit claims just as Democrats do, knowing they won't get all that they're saying they want ... then centrists from both parties reach a compromise. For instance, cutting food stamps instead of abolishing them.

That's usually how it works, though the Tea Party are a clog in the wheels.

(and apologies for any typos auto-correct sometimes bests my observation while typing.)

There are a few words in there you might have used with incorrect meaning.

Whether that's auto-correct or not I couldn't say. Maybe look up "whereas" "site/cite" "sojourn" and "rational/rationale". There's also the wrong spelling of some common words (purple'd) but that almost certainly is the auto-correct ... if you have that thing in automated mode so it doesn't give you a choice every time you might want to turn it down 'cos plain out typos are often easier to understand than the wrong word being spelled right.

[Des-Bal]

It wasn't incidental that Ayn Rand hated christianity, Christianity and Conservatism are diametrically opposed ideologies.

[Ifreann]

Sure.

I BET THE JEWS DID THIS

Yes. Yes they did.

---

Sure.

Link doesn't work.

I think you might be making it up about the chip thing.

You wound me, sir.

[Neutraligon]

Sure.

Link doesn't work.

I think you might be making it up about the chip thing.

I think you're sarcasm meter needs to be fixed.

[Srboslavija]

Link doesn't work.

I think you might be making it up about the chip thing.

I'm pretty sure it works, it goes to a legitimate source for me.

Which browser are you using? Tried both Firefox and IE to no avail. I don't doubt the link works but it all sounds a bit suss imo.

[LogiChristianity]

Your problem is that you assume a state actor. I, as a Christian, do not believe that the state should be in the business of being a Christian when it comes to charity - that is the job of individuals. The state cannot PROMOTE Christian values, because that is an individual responsibility, and through the state isn't the most efficient way to do it, and there are alternatives. The only thing the state can do as a Christian nation is PROHIBIT Un-Christian things, such as abortion and crazy marriage ideas. Because there are no alternatives except through the state.

[Iceteaedwin]

Because it's all a joke and a farce.

[Vetalia]

Yes. Yes they did.

Oh, it was supposed to reference back to the thread? Sorry about that...I mean, I'm not anti-Semitic or anything, I have a lot of Jewish friends after all.

[Raeyh]

It depends on your interpretation of the Bible.

[The Land Fomerly Known as Ligerplace]

First let me ask that if you don't have a valid logical point please don't post, I'm not doing this to troll and as such I am not asking for Flamers or people to derail this discussion. With that said here is my question/point of view.

Whereas Christians by both name and definition are "those who follow the teachings and ideals of Jesus Christ" (including; Catholics, Mormons, Lutherans, Protestants, etc.) and Republicans whose ideals are defined by there own party platforms are diametrically opposed. And whereas in a democratic society a pesrons beliefs should match their choice in either party or candidate, I pose the question how can one be both?

To illustrate the opposing ideals I will hit a small few talking points but feel free to weigh in on others that I may have missed or may point in favor of the two being related.

1) republican platforms have long fought against social programs such as unemployment, social security, Medicare and any form of socialized medicine. However Christ in coontrast taught to put the needs of others before the needs of self, healed the sick, blind, etc. (with no mention of him requiring payment of gold or silver). So how can you justify as a Republican Christian a lack of belief in helping the less fortunate.

2) republicans have long been known for there stance on immigration law and the desire to eliminate immigrants from coming into our land, taking our jobs, draining our tax dollars etc. however Leviticus (yes the same book republicans use to site homosexuality as an abomination) directly states 19:33 "the stranger who sojourns (travels) among you shall be to you as the native among you and you shall love him as you love yourself; for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the lord your god." now this is a direct order of god in which Republicans rally against. Also in Leviticus we are told not to plow the entirety of our fields or pick allow our crops that some be left for sojourners. So to be Christian the only logical rational would be to support immigration and want to create social programs for there betterment and care.

3)Republicans are strong advocates of capitalism & unregulated big business. A predatory system in which one rises by taking advantage of those without. Christ again taught lessons that are in summation which would be defined nowadays as socialist, capitalism's direct philosophical opposition.

I suppose they could justify it thus: "being Christian" is a code of personal conduct, ie how one person should treat another, and the only judge of whether you do that is God. The State however is not a person, and if it tries to "be Christian" it stands between people and each other, and between people and their God. Love one another, not the State. "Render unto Caesar" and so on ...

I don't think that really works though, because the religious right (ie, not all Republicans necessarily, and sometimes Democrats) are also the ones who want to ban things because it says in the Bible that they're wrong. I don't see how they could hold that the State shouldn't do any of the good Christian things but it can punish people for being un-Christian. Shouldn't that also be between a person and their God?

Luckily for me, I'm neither a Christian nor a Republican

I could go on to reinforce my belief that Republican platforms are in logical opposition to Christian beliefs but I would like to here some well thought out rationale on why these two philosophy's seem to have people who think they devoutly believe both.

It might be worth considering that Republicans don't necessarily want to go to the extremes (like NO welfare, NO immigration, etc) that you attribute to them. They make ambit claims just as Democrats do, knowing they won't get all that they're saying they want ... then centrists from both parties reach a compromise. For instance, cutting food stamps instead of abolishing them.

That's usually how it works, though the Tea Party are a clog in the wheels.

(and apologies for any typos auto-correct sometimes bests my observation while typing.)

There are a few words in there you might have used with incorrect meaning.

Whether that's auto-correct or not I couldn't say. Maybe look up "whereas" "site/cite" "sojourn" and "rational/rationale". There's also the wrong spelling of some common words (purple'd) but that almost certainly is the auto-correct ... if you have that thing in automated mode so it doesn't give you a choice every time you might want to turn it down 'cos plain out typos are often easier to understand than the wrong word being spelled right.

Which is a contradiction with most.

I can't tell people that the poor need food, or that workers need rights, that would be imposing my beliefs!

No abortions, no prostitutes, and ban plan-b, because my beliefs say so.

As much shit as I have for libertarians, they are at least internally consistent.

On the social side, I can oppose abortion because of my beliefs, but if a guy tried to enforce mandatory burkhas on women that would be wrong, even though that is the exact same logic.

[Des-Bal]

It depends on your interpretation of the Bible.

It depends on whether or not you've read the bible.

[Scandza]

It depends on your interpretation of the Bible.

It depends on whether or not you've read the bible.

I would of never guessed.

[The walkers]

First let me ask that if you don't have a valid logical point please don't post, I'm not doing this to troll and as such I am not asking for Flamers or people to derail this discussion. With that said here is my question/point of view.

Whereas Christians by both name and definition are "those who follow the teachings and ideals of Jesus Christ" (including; Catholics, Mormons, Lutherans, Protestants, etc.) and Republicans whose ideals are defined by there own party platforms are diametrically opposed. And whereas in a democratic society a pesrons beliefs should match their choice in either party or candidate, I pose the question how can one be both?

To illustrate the opposing ideals I will hit a small few talking points but feel free to weigh in on others that I may have missed or may point in favor of the two being related.

1) republican platforms have long fought against social programs such as unemployment, social security, Medicare and any form of socialized medicine. However Christ in coontrast taught to put the needs of others before the needs of self, healed the sick, blind, etc. (with no mention of him requiring payment of gold or silver). So how can you justify as a Republican Christian a lack of belief in helping the less fortunate.

2) republicans have long been known for there stance on immigration law and the desire to eliminate immigrants from coming into our land, taking our jobs, draining our tax dollars etc. however Leviticus (yes the same book republicans use to site homosexuality as an abomination) directly states 19:33 "the stranger who sojourns (travels) among you shall be to you as the native among you and you shall love him as you love yourself; for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the lord your god." now this is a direct order of god in which Republicans rally against. Also in Leviticus we are told not to plow the entirety of our fields or pick allow our crops that some be left for sojourners. So to be Christian the only logical rational would be to support immigration and want to create social programs for there betterment and care.

3)Republicans are strong advocates of capitalism & unregulated big business. A predatory system in which one rises by taking advantage of those without. Christ again taught lessons that are in summation which would be defined nowadays as socialist, capitalism's direct philosophical opposition.

I could go on to reinforce my belief that Republican platforms are in logical opposition to Christian beliefs but I would like to here some well thought out rationale on why these two philosophy's seem to have people who think they devoutly believe both.

(and apologies for any typos auto-correct sometimes bests my observation while typing.)

Good questions friend. As a Christian I feel I can answer, although I do not see myself as a Republican.

Social security and other government programs force people to pay for the needs of others. You can not force a man to do good, a Christian should be loving and willing to give the shirt off their back to help others, but they should not do it because the government is threatening to send them to jail if they do not. That is not charity, that is fear and control.

On the second thing I would agree with you, I don't see the reason some are so hostile to immigrants.

Capitalism is not evil, people are. Capitalism is a economic system that provides freedom for people to make what type of businesses they want and to do what they wish with it, again I come back to morality can not be forced. You have never seen a true capitalism, what you are referring to is what modern countries have now, which is called Crony Capitalism, which most capitalists hate more than anything else. It is where the government is LIGHTLY involved with business, and business abuses this relationship to increase their own profits. Crony Capitalism provides niches for businesses to abuse others without any chance of being punished.

Also, Christians are told not to take part in the world, but to live seperate from it, so, we should not even call ourselves Republicans. Republican is a Political Faction

[The Land Fomerly Known as Ligerplace]

First let me ask that if you don't have a valid logical point please don't post, I'm not doing this to troll and as such I am not asking for Flamers or people to derail this discussion. With that said here is my question/point of view.

Whereas Christians by both name and definition are "those who follow the teachings and ideals of Jesus Christ" (including; Catholics, Mormons, Lutherans, Protestants, etc.) and Republicans whose ideals are defined by there own party platforms are diametrically opposed. And whereas in a democratic society a pesrons beliefs should match their choice in either party or candidate, I pose the question how can one be both?

To illustrate the opposing ideals I will hit a small few talking points but feel free to weigh in on others that I may have missed or may point in favor of the two being related.

1) republican platforms have long fought against social programs such as unemployment, social security, Medicare and any form of socialized medicine. However Christ in coontrast taught to put the needs of others before the needs of self, healed the sick, blind, etc. (with no mention of him requiring payment of gold or silver). So how can you justify as a Republican Christian a lack of belief in helping the less fortunate.

2) republicans have long been known for there stance on immigration law and the desire to eliminate immigrants from coming into our land, taking our jobs, draining our tax dollars etc. however Leviticus (yes the same book republicans use to site homosexuality as an abomination) directly states 19:33 "the stranger who sojourns (travels) among you shall be to you as the native among you and you shall love him as you love yourself; for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the lord your god." now this is a direct order of god in which Republicans rally against. Also in Leviticus we are told not to plow the entirety of our fields or pick allow our crops that some be left for sojourners. So to be Christian the only logical rational would be to support immigration and want to create social programs for there betterment and care.

3)Republicans are strong advocates of capitalism & unregulated big business. A predatory system in which one rises by taking advantage of those without. Christ again taught lessons that are in summation which would be defined nowadays as socialist, capitalism's direct philosophical opposition.

I could go on to reinforce my belief that Republican platforms are in logical opposition to Christian beliefs but I would like to here some well thought out rationale on why these two philosophy's seem to have people who think they devoutly believe both.

(and apologies for any typos auto-correct sometimes bests my observation while typing.)

Good questions friend. As a Christian I feel I can answer, although I do not see myself as a Republican.

Social security and other government programs force people to pay for the needs of others. You can not force a man to do good, a Christian should be loving and willing to give the shirt off their back to help others, but they should not do it because the government is threatening to send them to jail if they do not. That is not charity, that is fear and control.

On the second thing I would agree with you, I don't see the reason some are so hostile to immigrants.

Capitalism is not evil, people are. Capitalism is a economic system that provides freedom for people to make what type of businesses they want and to do what they wish with it, again I come back to morality can not be forced. You have never seen a true capitalism, what you are referring to is what modern countries have now, which is called Crony Capitalism, which most capitalists hate more than anything else. It is where the government is LIGHTLY involved with business, and business abuses this relationship to increase their own profits. Crony Capitalism provides niches for businesses to abuse others without any chance of being punished.

Also, Christians are told not to take part in the world, but to live seperate from it, so, we should not even call ourselves Republicans. Republican is a Political Faction

That would be explainable, let them choose good, if they were libertarian capitalists.

However, they choose to enforce their social beliefs on others, which is hypocritical if they hold the view that all are free to choose the right way.

[AiliailiA]

It depends on your interpretation of the Bible.

It depends on whether or not you've read the bible.

I tried. In retrospect, starting at the beginning was a bad idea. *smirk*

[Des-Bal]

I tried. In retrospect, starting at the beginning was a bad idea. *smirk*

Start on the parts about homosexuals and why it's okay to kill people then stop reading, that's what most people do.