Spanking

[Yankee Empire]

It's disappointing to know that over half of those in the poll support spanking...

I've seen child abuse happening right in front of my eyes,physical and verbal,maybe even mental

Those who suffer from child abuse tell me that it all happened with one thing...spankings...but then it multiplied into even harsher punishments...

Child abusers disgust me...and I see spankers as child abusers...

I would understand why the child would need to be punished,but is there really a reason to stoop down to their level and spank them?

People who consider spanking child abuse disgust me, distracts attention aways from actual child abusers.

[Eireann Fae]

Having looked over this there a few problems i have noticed by people who are saying spanking is wrong

1. They say its abuse and do not seem to understand what abuse can be
While i would agree that hitting someone is a form of abuse my main issue is that these people are probably ignorant of what 'abuse fully encompasses. Shouting at someone is considerd a form of abuse, Glaring at someone is too.
The list of things that could be abusive would actually make the process of disiplining a child extremley difficult. The way i see it you would need to be harsh to a child in some sort of way if they had been extremley naughty and you wanted them to understand that they needed to stop. Otherwise the child would simply run rampant

There is considerable difference between physically striking a child and shooting one a dirty look. While both may hurt the child's feelings, the former actually inflicts pain and, almost certainly, can be far more mentally and emotionally traumatising. There are other ways to stop a child from misbehaving than to hit them, and despite your third point of contention, people have offered up alternatives in this thread.

2. They say a good parent wouldnt need to do it.
This is just silly as 'good parent' is subjective and to be honest everyone thinks they are a better parent then anyone else. How you bring up a child isn't something that has to be a certain way to be right. So long as the child is not a messed up wreck in the future. I was spanked when i was young and it didnt effect me. Im pretty sure others i know got spanked but are not traumatised by it.

Not everybody thinks they are a good parent. I'm not one, but know I'd make a poor one (and is, actually, one reason that I'm not one, and won't be). I've heard other parents tell me how disappointed they were, that they had wronged their child in their manner of upbringing.

And no, spanking isn't certainly wrong, any more than there certainly aren't omnipotent beings somewhere in the vastness of the universe. But there are certainly better ways to discipline children. I was spanked by my father, as previously mentioned in this thread, and to this day I really can't even carry on a normal conversation with him for fear of judgement, and whatever consequences disappointing him may entail. I have a rather more pleasant relationship with my mother, however, who never saw fit to strike me or my siblings. Everybody is different.

3. They have not explained other methods instead
From what i have read the people who have said spanking is wrong have not given any alternatives. If spanking is wrong and you say a good parent does not need to do it, then explain what should be done instead. Im still unsure what other alternatives there are especially as i have explained above even shouting is considered abuse.

Im not supporting spanking children in any way and if i ever had a child i would hope not to ever need to spank them. However i would prefer some more in depth arguements instead of just 'Its abuse' or belittling comments.

I think you missed a few pages. Understandable, as this thread is pretty fast-moving (I just skipped about 10 pages, m'self). Others have suggested time-out or equivalent, or explaining to kids that why what they did was wrong, and why they should not do such in the future. I prefer the latter - sitting a child down and explaining to them that what they are doing is unacceptable, be it because the action in question poses a risk to the child, is socially unacceptable, or whatever the case may be. I don't believe in instilling fear into the hearts of children - including through shouting at them (yes, there are special cases - if a child is about to cross a dangerous street, shouting for them to stop is probably preferable to running after them and hoping to stop them before a car does).

A dozen or so pages back, someone posted a hypothetical about Charlie hitting Sally. Another poster responded that they would ask Charlie to stop, and the original poster said that the boy wasn't stopping. The respondent placed the theoretically violent child in his room, to which the original poster responded "that's punishment, too". True enough, but not all punishment is equal. (Most) governments do not execute people for petty thievery. For my part, even forced isolation would be a last resort. Spanking does not even enter into the equation.

Edit: Also, lol'd at your username, considering the subject at hand :)

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Dafuq?

15 people (7%) voted that they wouldn't spank their children but wouldn't mind someone else doing the spanking... Why?

[Tlaceceyaya]

Dafuq?

15 people (7%) voted that they wouldn't spank their children but wouldn't mind someone else doing the spanking... Why?

I think it means they won't spank their own children, but they wouldn't mind someone else spanking their own, different, children.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Dafuq?

15 people (7%) voted that they wouldn't spank their children but wouldn't mind someone else doing the spanking... Why?

I think it means they won't spank their own children, but they wouldn't mind someone else spanking their own, different, children.

Perhaps the wording of that option confused me.

[Eireann Fae]

I think it means they won't spank their own children, but they wouldn't mind someone else spanking their own, different, children.

Perhaps the wording of that option confused me.

I read it the same way you did...

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Perhaps the wording of that option confused me.

I read it the same way you did...

So you got the same impression too? I see. Has the OP clarified that that you know?

[Eplica]

It's normal, I thought about kids when I was 8. -_-

I didn't.

Doesn't mean the whole world didn't.

[Eireann Fae]

I read it the same way you did...

So you got the same impression too? I see. Has the OP clarified that that you know?

OP hasn't said anything in this thread since making the first post. I just figured he was bringing up a particular circumstance where a parent wouldn't strike their child, but, for whatever reason, had no problem with school administrators doing it. Or something.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

So you got the same impression too? I see. Has the OP clarified that that you know?

OP hasn't said anything in this thread since making the first post. I just figured he was bringing up a particular circumstance where a parent wouldn't strike their child, but, for whatever reason, had no problem with school administrators doing it. Or something.

Could be that.

However, why would a parent allow the school for example, to lay a finger that way on his child if he won't reprimand the child himself? To me, it doesn't make sense. Then again, when I started school, punishment of that sort was no longer permitted in school. I knew better than to act out at school because I knew that my bottom was going to be red as Rudolph's nose when I got home.

[Nordic Saxony]

Only during sex. (with an adult, to clarify)

OHOHOHOHOHO


Anyhow, I think smacking your children is a good idea to keep them in line.

[Dongolia]

... Generally, there are better methods, but there usually comes a time when all the non-corporal methods - time-out, grounding, removing privileges, public humiliation ...

I'd say public humiliation is more harmful to a child than using mild physical force (although it was admittedly a technique I was reluctantly forced to use from time to time when teaching kids in Japan).

[Warshania]

Oh, THAT kind of spanking. Well, no. Spanking kids is wrong. On the other hand...

[Dongolia]

OP hasn't said anything in this thread since making the first post. I just figured he was bringing up a particular circumstance where a parent wouldn't strike their child, but, for whatever reason, had no problem with school administrators doing it. Or something.

Could be that.

However, why would a parent allow the school for example, to lay a finger that way on his child if he won't reprimand the child himself? To me, it doesn't make sense. Then again, when I started school, punishment of that sort was no longer permitted in school. I knew better than to act out at school because I knew that my bottom was going to be red as Rudolph's nose when I got home.

You might adopt this position if you were afraid that by spanking a child you were sacrificing respect/authority for a short term behavioural improvement (rather than having a moral objection) and were thus reluctant to do it yourself but OK with others doing it.

[Crogach]

Disobeying only gets you more consequences.

Which last how long until the kid realizes that Daddy dearest is vulnerable when he's asleep? Seriously, the logic of "I'll train my kid to behave how I expect him to by making him fear my anger when he doesn't" is seriously flawed. Mere fear isn't exactly conducive to breeding trust or respect, and fear without trust or respect tends to breed anger and resentment (or an incredibly shrill denial because you'd rather not be confronted with the idea that what was done to you was bad because if it were bad it would constitute a fundamental breach of trust). I don't know about you, but I'd rather have my kid like and respect me than fear me any day of the week, and I have enough faith in myself and my theoretical progeny to believe that possible.

[Samuraikoku]

If that's the case then you have it too, surely your parents had to enforce some sort of punishment besides spanking for you to listen.

Never, actually.

Also, I would like to point out that my parents don't always spank me. In fact they've stopped a long time ago as I've said in a previous post. I still get an occasional slap if I perhaps bad mouth my mother, and if I'm bad mouthing my mother maybe that's a sign that I'm making a decline and spanking should be reinstated.

Stockholm Syndrome.

Actually, it shows that you have no idea what you are talking about. I don't have Stockholm Syndrome and I really think you should look up the definition before you throw it out there.

You know my meaning, which you haven't addressed.

Stockholm Syndrome is specific to abduction.

The idea is justifying a form of harm done against you. Stockholm Syndrome, Battered Person Syndrome, in essence my point is the same. I see those who justify child spanking have no other justification.

[Dongolia]

The idea is justifying a form of harm done against you. Stockholm Syndrome, Battered Person Syndrome, in essence my point is the same. I see those who justify child spanking have no other justification.

Err, are you suggesting that all people who were spanked advocate spanking because they're trying to justify the harm that was done to them as a child?

Does what about people who are OK with spanking and weren't spanked as children?

[Samuraikoku]

Err, are you suggesting that all people who were spanked advocate spanking because they're trying to justify the harm that was done to them as a child?

Does what about people who are OK with spanking and weren't spanked as children?

That makes it even worse.

[Dongolia]

Err, are you suggesting that all people who were spanked advocate spanking because they're trying to justify the harm that was done to them as a child?

Does what about people who are OK with spanking and weren't spanked as children?

That makes it even worse.

A sound argument!

[Dyakovo]

You can teach them consequences without resorting to violence. Taking away privileges might work as well?

There is a difference between spanking and abuse you know.

And that addresses Blaat's statement in what way?

[Melas]

Then making a child get a haircut is also child abuse right?

Everything is child abuse these days. Spank them, you're abusive. Take away privileges, you're abusive (don't snicker, a friend of mine told his 12-year-old daughter that she couldn't go to a swimming party unless she brought her grades up and Social Services landed on them for not letting her participate in "peer group activity"). Let 'em do as they please, you're negligent. Doesn't matter, with today's attitudes parents aren't allowed to be parents - at best their babysitters for their own kids, at worst, they're constantly looking over their shoulders hoping that no one is zeroing in on them for some imagined abuse.

Please tell me you are joking

[Dyakovo]

According to what? Source me something, everyone I know was spanked as a child and non of us are traumatised.

"Everyone you know" is outweighed by everybody else.

http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/pmidlookup?view= ... d=10530296
http://www.phoenixchildrens.com/PDFs/pr ... ipline.pdf

A longitudinal study by Tulane University in 2010 controlled for a wide variety of confounding variables previously noted and still found negative outcomes in children who were spanked more than twice per month.[26] According to the study's leader, Catherine Taylor, this suggests that "it's not just that children who are more aggressive are more likely to be spanked."[27]

"...found negative outcomes in children who were spanked more than twice per month."
Hmmm...

[Dyakovo]

Hitting children (or adults) is wrong and abusive. Parents who spank their children teach the idea that violence is the proper way to solve disagreements.

And yet, oddly enough, I was spanked as a child and do not think that violence is the proper way to solve disagreements...

[Dongolia]

Hitting children (or adults) is wrong and abusive. Parents who spank their children teach the idea that violence is the proper way to solve disagreements.

NO YOU'RE WRONG AND IF YOU WERE HERE I'D SHOW YOU THAT YOU'RE WRONG WITH MY FIST!!!!

Partly satire

[Melas]

Hitting children (or adults) is wrong and abusive. Parents who spank their children teach the idea that violence is the proper way to solve disagreements.

And yet, oddly enough, I was spanked as a child and do not think that violence is the proper way to solve disagreements...

YOU ARE LYING.We all know the best way to raise a 3 year old is try to communicate reasonably with him when he can not even understand what you are saying to it.Sometimes pain is the only language,if you do something and then get punished you will most likely not do it again.