Socialismphobia

[Norsklow]

True. But he does get to pick that you are his enemy, and vice versa.
The rest of it follows from it.

You may well have no aggressive intentions towards him, but that does not stop him from having such towards yours.

If anarchists want to fight me, fine. But I don't consider them enemies.

Yes, I had come to that conclusion. It does not alter the point.

[Camelza]

Torture by Stalinists or Right-wingers is the same thing,people get hurt and people get killed,so you should've better picked no side.

That's entirely true.

The "west"(through its puppet governments) did the exact same things to Greece that any authoritarian could do,along with a bonus: state social conservatism
So,I beg to disagree about the fact that we got the better option.

I'd argue that the fact that Greece clawed back its democracy to an extent in the '70s is preferable to being trapped in the Eastern Bloc until 1989, but we're splitting hairs, really, because both scenarios are fundamentally unpleasant.

Exactly what I meant.

[Franklin Delano Bluth]

People who fear socialism, do so because they fear freedom.

[CTALNH]

i always though socialism meant government direction of capital.

the question then becomes what is socialism, is there a common definition of it?

i thought marx said socialism was a step on the way to communism.

Different Communism. Marx's definition of Communism was a stateless, moneyless society if I remember correctly.

In America, Communism is meant to be an Authoritarian state where the government controls all aspects of the economy.

Socialism is generally defined as a state with high income equality, and public ownership of the means of production. Not government ownership, public ownership,though government ownership is a kind of public ownership.

Thank Comrade Lenin and Stalin to explain that the Guys in the soviet union made it clear that they had barely touched the surface of Socialism!

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

Different Communism. Marx's definition of Communism was a stateless, moneyless society if I remember correctly.

In America, Communism is meant to be an Authoritarian state where the government controls all aspects of the economy.

Socialism is generally defined as a state with high income equality, and public ownership of the means of production. Not government ownership, public ownership,though government ownership is a kind of public ownership.

Thank Comrade Lenin and Stalin to explain that the Guys in the soviet union made it clear that they had barely touched the surface of Socialism!

State ownership =/= public ownership, because the state =/= the workers.

[CTALNH]

Thank Comrade Lenin and Stalin to explain that the Guys in the soviet union made it clear that they had barely touched the surface of Socialism!

State ownership =/= public ownership, because the state =/= the workers.

Really we are gonna do this again!

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

State ownership =/= public ownership, because the state =/= the workers.

Really we are gonna do this again!

The main reason that "socialismphobia" exists at all is because of the actions of the USSR, so it's probably worth showing that The Union of Somewhat Stalinist Republics wasn't socialist.

[CTALNH]

Really we are gonna do this again!

The main reason that "socialismphobia" exists at all is because of the actions of the USSR, so it's probably worth showing that The Union of Somewhat Stalinist Republics wasn't socialist.

The no true Scotsman argument for what 7th time!

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

The main reason that "socialismphobia" exists at all is because of the actions of the USSR, so it's probably worth showing that The Union of Somewhat Stalinist Republics wasn't socialist.

The no true Scotsman argument for what 7th time!

No, because No True Scotsman would involve the USSR actually conforming to socialist criteria but me saying "Not socialist" on an arbitrary basis. As the USSR was demonstrably not socialist, as the means of production weren't owned by the workers, then it isn't a No True Scotsman.

[Blakk Metal]

The main reason that "socialismphobia" exists at all is because of the actions of the USSR, so it's probably worth showing that The Union of Somewhat Stalinist Republics wasn't socialist.

The no true Scotsman argument for what 7th time!

And I'm Japanese.

[CTALNH]

The no true Scotsman argument for what 7th time!

No, because No True Scotsman would involve the USSR actually conforming to socialist criteria but me saying "Not socialist" on an arbitrary basis. As the USSR was demonstrably not socialist, as the means of production weren't owned by the workers, then it isn't a No True Scotsman.

Cry me a river I don't care what you say...

[Divair]

No, because No True Scotsman would involve the USSR actually conforming to socialist criteria but me saying "Not socialist" on an arbitrary basis. As the USSR was demonstrably not socialist, as the means of production weren't owned by the workers, then it isn't a No True Scotsman.

Cry me a river I don't care what you say...

Always funny to see someone admit to willful ignorance.

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

No, because No True Scotsman would involve the USSR actually conforming to socialist criteria but me saying "Not socialist" on an arbitrary basis. As the USSR was demonstrably not socialist, as the means of production weren't owned by the workers, then it isn't a No True Scotsman.

Cry me a river I don't care what you say...

CTALNH claiming once again that the laws of logic are bourgeois Trotskyite fascist capitalist elements that must be purged from the Glorious Soviet Motherland.

[Gauthier]

Cry me a river I don't care what you say...

CTALNH claiming once again that the laws of logic are bourgeois Trotskyite fascist capitalist elements that must be purged from the Glorious Soviet Motherland.

Reality has a leftist bias!

[The Scandinvans]

'm not a Marxist. Marxism is only one of the major branches of Socialism. My personal variant of Socialism is a synthesis of Market Socialism, Syndicalism, and Dirigisme.

To point out, you continually stress your own narrow definition of socialism despite the fact that the greater part of academia and the population disagree with you it seems.

[Norsklow]

As per ante - more lollercoaster. They're squabbling amongst themselves.

[The Scandinvans]

People who fear socialism, do so because they fear freedom.

Please do not deal in such absolutes for they often have the habit of closing your eyes. People fear, dislike, despise, and consider socialism unwise or illogical for a number of different reasons. Many of them include the belief that it removes incentives, causes stagnation, has a propensity to encourage totalitarianism, does not provide what it promises, comes with an extreme price, etc.

[Zweite Alaje]

'm not a Marxist. Marxism is only one of the major branches of Socialism. My personal variant of Socialism is a synthesis of Market Socialism, Syndicalism, and Dirigisme.

To point out, you continually stress your own narrow definition of socialism despite the fact that the greater part of academia and the population disagree with you it seems.

Yes, I'm explaining to you my variant so that you know what mindset I'm speaking to you from. I don't claim my thought monopolizes Socialist thought, infact I'd probably say some of my preferences are atypical in comparison to my fellow Socialists.

But what I am saying is that despite the great amount of variation and flexiblity with in the socialist spectrum, there is a concrete and fundemental tenet that all of Socialism seeks to accomplish, that is workplace democracy/worker ownership of the means of production. If a regime or person doesn't support this they cannot possibly be a socialist no matter what they may call themselves.

The thing is the "academia" you applaud is biased and controlled by the capitalists, and hence their "definition" is warped and incorrect. The "populous" is thus kept ignorant of the true nature of Socialism and her various sub-branches.

[Zweite Alaje]

As per ante - more lollercoaster. They're squabbling amongst themselves.

We Socialists have disagreements amongst ourselves, yes, so do Capitalists. What's your point?

[Blakk Metal]

As per ante - more lollercoaster. They're squabbling amongst themselves.

We Socialists have disagreements amongst ourselves, yes, so do Capitalists. What's your point?

A common strategy used against leftist ideologies is to hold them to much higher standards than the leftist regime.

[Mavorpen]

As per ante - more lollercoaster. They're squabbling amongst themselves.

We Socialists have disagreements amongst ourselves, yes, so do Capitalists. What's your point?

I've never understood this.

Capitalists just LOVE to clump us all together. Immediately when discussing socialism, it's "LOOK AT WHUT MAO AND STALIN DID!" as though we're all Stalinists and Maoists. When I tell them I'm not a Stalinist or Maoist, they flip out, screaming that it's impossible, because socialism is socialism. I think from now on, I'm going to make sweeping generalizations about capitalism. From now on, all capitalists believe in Keynesian economics. Let's see how annoyed the libertarians get when I keep insisting all capitalism is created equally.

[SaintB]

Conservatives need to fear something, its that simple.

[Norstal]

Maybe it's the fear of more government control (of production) leading to corruption?

Dude.

The OP just said George Orwell advocate socialism. The George that fucking wrote 1984, for Christ's sakes.

[Mavorpen]

Maybe it's the fear of more government control (of production) leading to corruption?

Dude.

The OP just said George Orwell advocate socialism. The George that fucking wrote 1984, for Christ's sakes.

$10 says he has to Google who George Orwell is, as well as 1984.

[Sanroe Communista]

It's because when the average American thinks of Socialism, they think of Communism, and then...

"AH!!!! COMMIES! COMMIES!!!!!"