Socialismphobia

[Mike the Progressive]

Interesting to see capitalists revert to childish appeals to authority.

We revert because your argument is futile, history has taught us capitalism works the best.

It certainly is more efficient but it is equally unrealistic to expect any state to be purely capitalist in its policies. The state will intervene and grow and grow over time till it does kill the goose that lays the golden egg and has to "restart" again.

[LochNessMontropolis]

THIS is the problem with socialism. "People partially submit to the state's authority, and in return it looks after them when they can't look after themselves." WHO decides when you need looking after? For example, recently the city of New York has banned large soft drinks because they were "looking after" the people's health. Giving someone - anyone - the right to "take care of you" gives them tacit permission to make all and every decision about your life FOR you. Yes, they can. It's as simple as stating, "You are incompetent/unable to make those decisions for youself, so we'll take care of you."
Have you ever had an argument with you parents as to what you wanted to do as opposed to what THEY thought was best for you? It's the same situation, only worse, because one's parents (with some exceptions) DO care about you. An impersonal government hundreds/thousands of miles away from you do not have the same level of care. Do you REALLY want someone having that much potential personal power over you?

[Jassysworth 1]

Interesting to see capitalists revert to childish appeals to authority.

We revert because your argument is futile, history has taught us capitalism works the best.

Because who won the Cold War?

That's right... the forces of the capitalist and free United States =)

Capitalism hands down... socialismphobia is justified.

[Renegade Island]

We revert because your argument is futile, history has taught us capitalism works the best.

It certainly is more efficient but it is equally unrealistic to expect any state to be purely capitalist in its policies. The state will intervene and grow and grow over time till it does kill the goose that lays the golden egg and has to "restart" again.

Capitalism is efficient?

[Souseiseki]

It certainly is more efficient but it is equally unrealistic to expect any state to be purely capitalist in its policies. The state will intervene and grow and grow over time till it does kill the goose that lays the golden egg and has to "restart" again.

Capitalism is efficient?

competition? free market? hello???

now obviously you can have these without capitalism and capitalism without them, but i think you'll find what you're referring to when you say capitalism is inefficient is actually american cronyist socialism

[Renegade Island]

We revert because your argument is futile, history has taught us capitalism works the best.

Because who won the Cold War?

That's right... the forces of the capitalist and free United States =)

Capitalism hands down... socialismphobia is justified.

The US won the cold war because of the PetroDollar. Not capitalism.

[Renegade Island]

Capitalism is efficient?

competition? free market? hello???

now obviously you can have these without capitalism and capitalism without them, but i think you'll find what you're referring to when you say capitalism is inefficient is actually american cronyist socialism

Capitalism thrives on inefficiency. How can your business keep making a profit if your products never break down? Inefficiency is built right into the model.

[Giroad]

I am a socialist, and yes, capitalism does work, but if socialism is made to work by a little effort, then you live in a society based around people, not money. There's nothing wrong with business and economy and the free market, but when corporations get involved with government in places like ALEC, that's what socialism wants to stop.

[Jassysworth 1]

competition? free market? hello???

now obviously you can have these without capitalism and capitalism without them, but i think you'll find what you're referring to when you say capitalism is inefficient is actually american cronyist socialism

Capitalism thrives on inefficiency. How can your business keep making a profit if your products never break down? Inefficiency is built right into the model.

How can you stay in business against your competitors in a capitalist free market when your products are not being produced efficiently and when your products fail to satisfy the needs of the consumers efficiently?

No... free market capitalism promotes efficiency. The inefficient go out of business, the efficient stay in business and get ahead.

To the extent that this is NOT true it's where there is the least competition (ex airlines), where there is too much government intervention/nationalization, and where the market is working least well (in other words, where things are LEAST capitalist and least free in terms of market activity).

It's when you remove competition for monetary profit (like in communism), that you'll have problems of inefficiency.

[Jassysworth 1]

Because who won the Cold War?

That's right... the forces of the capitalist and free United States =)

Capitalism hands down... socialismphobia is justified.

The US won the cold war because of the PetroDollar. Not capitalism.

No, it won because it (unlike the Soviet Union) had what's called sound economic policy (aka mixed economy capitalism).

[Chestaan]

Capitalism thrives on inefficiency. How can your business keep making a profit if your products never break down? Inefficiency is built right into the model.

How can you stay in business against your competitors in a capitalist free market when your products are not being produced efficiently and when your products fail to satisfy the needs of the consumers efficiently?

No... free market capitalism promotes efficiency. The inefficient go out of business, the efficient stay in business and get ahead.

To the extent that this is NOT true it's where there is the least competition (ex airlines), where there is too much government intervention/nationalization, and where the market is working least well (in other words, where things are LEAST capitalist and least free in terms of market activity).

It's when you remove competition for monetary profit (like in communism), that you'll have problems of inefficiency.

You're both talking about different inefficiencies, that's the problem.

Secondly, airlines have so little competition, not because of government intervention, but because of the huge natural barriers to entry.

[Renegade Island]

Capitalism thrives on inefficiency. How can your business keep making a profit if your products never break down? Inefficiency is built right into the model.

How can you stay in business against your competitors in a capitalist free market when your products are not being produced efficiently and when your products fail to satisfy the needs of the consumers efficiently?

No... free market capitalism promotes efficiency. The inefficient go out of business, the efficient stay in business and get ahead.

To the extent that this is NOT true it's where there is the least competition (ex airlines), where there is too much government intervention/nationalization, and where the market is working least well (in other words, where things are LEAST capitalist and least free in terms of market activity).

It's when you remove competition for monetary profit (like in communism), that you'll have problems of inefficiency.

you're talking about cost efficiency.

Cost efficiency is the reason why capitalism is inefficient as a system.

[Jassysworth 1]

How can you stay in business against your competitors in a capitalist free market when your products are not being produced efficiently and when your products fail to satisfy the needs of the consumers efficiently?

No... free market capitalism promotes efficiency. The inefficient go out of business, the efficient stay in business and get ahead.

To the extent that this is NOT true it's where there is the least competition (ex airlines), where there is too much government intervention/nationalization, and where the market is working least well (in other words, where things are LEAST capitalist and least free in terms of market activity).

It's when you remove competition for monetary profit (like in communism), that you'll have problems of inefficiency.

you're talking about cost efficiency.

Cost efficiency is the reason why capitalism is inefficient as a system.

Why? Competition driving the prices of most products down and pushing the way for innovation and higher quality sounds like a relatively efficient system.

The alternative is no competition for profit and one group continuing a pattern of inefficiency indefinitely because no one can put them out of business.

[Giroad]

Capitalism seems to think it can grow endlesdsly, and then it hits the roof and coms crashing down.

The stock markets can't grow forever.

[Renegade Island]

The US won the cold war because of the PetroDollar. Not capitalism.

No, it won because it (unlike the Soviet Union) had what's called sound economic policy (aka mixed economy capitalism).

Right, it had nothing to do with the US controlling the global oil supply by forcing every country in the world to purchase oil in dollars, effectively giving them and endless supply of wealth which resulted in the US outspending all other countries on the planet on military spending.

Nothing to do with that, at all.

[Saragossa]

Capitalism seems to think it can grow endlesdsly, and then it hits the roof and coms crashing down.

The stock markets can't grow forever.

Why not? There's always more money and more people

[Renegade Island]

you're talking about cost efficiency.

Cost efficiency is the reason why capitalism is inefficient as a system.

Why? Competition driving the prices of most products down and pushing the way for innovation and higher quality sounds like a relatively efficient system.

The alternative is no competition for profit and one group continuing a pattern of inefficiency indefinitely because no one can put them out of business.

1. Competition driving the prices of products down does not result in higher quality, rather the opposite. (since the best possible product can never be made due to cost efficiency limitations at all levels of production.)
2. Competition does not necessarily push the way for innovation. In fact it limits innovations to the people/business that made the innovation in order to protect their profits from that innovation (copyright/patent laws.) This makes it impossible for people outside of the circle to improve upon products, therefore limiting the potential of every product by design (for a good example, see Sony vs. George Hotz)
3. It is fallacious to assume the only alternative is a command economy.

[CTALNH]

Capitalism is efficient?

competition? free market? hello???

now obviously you can have these without capitalism and capitalism without them, but i think you'll find what you're referring to when you say capitalism is inefficient is actually american cronyist socialism

Yeah Long Live Monopoly...

[Perrytopia]

Personally, I don't understand why some people fear socialism... I mean, most world economies are technically mixed, and lets not forget systems like welfare, social security, and , In the U.S specifically, Medicare

[Alekera]

Capitalism seems to think it can grow endlesdsly, and then it hits the roof and coms crashing down.

The stock markets can't grow forever.

Well thats true no matter what kind of economy that is. There's only a finite number or resources out there.....

[LochNessMontropolis]

Personally, I don't understand why some people fear socialism... I mean, most world economies are technically mixed, and lets not forget systems like welfare, social security, and , In the U.S specifically, Medicare

Social Security is NOT in the same order as welfare and Medicare. Check your pay stub. It is forcible taken out of your paycheck each pay period. Originally, the government decided that they would "take care of" those people who - for whatever reason - failed to provide a retirement for themselves. That money was to be set aside, so that as citizens retired, the state would pay them the money that they had paid in. The money was appropriated and used for OTHER issues. Now, as our Baby Boomers are retiring, there is little to no money - money that came from all those pay checks that they earn all those years, money which they did not necessarily agree to have taken out - to pay them.
That is my primary problem with socialism. It is an insult and just wrong when the government - or anyone - can be allowed to decide what is "best for us."

[Rudie]

Interesting to see capitalists revert to childish appeals to authority.

We revert because your argument is futile, history has taught us capitalism works the best.

You're firstly assuming I'm a socialist. Secondly, you're also assuming that there is any universal consensus on the benevolence of capitalism.

[Zaras]

That is my primary problem with socialism. It is an insult and just wrong when the government - or anyone - can be allowed to decide what is "best for us."

You're more insulted by the fact that the government helps people than the existence of crushing poverty, inequality, people who have been financially ruined or lost their lives because of the lack of universal healthcare, unequal opportunities in education, malnutrition, and so forth.

Some fucking sociopathic priorities you have there.

[Zaras]

No, it won because it (unlike the Soviet Union) had what's called sound economic policy (aka mixed economy capitalism).

The USA had a sound economic policy until Reagan and his ilk fucked it up by transitioning to a plutocracy instead. The only reason the "Cold War" was won was because the Soviet Union bankrupted itself wasting unsustainable sums of money on defense in combination with their shitty state capitalist economic system.

[Dinahia]

competition? free market? hello???

now obviously you can have these without capitalism and capitalism without them, but i think you'll find what you're referring to when you say capitalism is inefficient is actually american cronyist socialism

Yeah Long Live Monopoly...

Says the advocator of centralised economy.