Socialismphobia

[Rudie]

Interesting to see capitalists revert to childish appeals to authority.

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

Okay, I've heard a lot about how great socialism is - SO, tell me why it's so great. Convince me.

Workers' control of the means of production.

In other terms, you reap what you sow from your work.

[Norsklow]

Okay, I've heard a lot about how great socialism is - SO, tell me why it's so great. Convince me.

Workers' control of the means of production.

In other terms, you reap what you sow from your work.

How very nice for mothers with children, pensioners, and what not.

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

Workers' control of the means of production.

In other terms, you reap what you sow from your work.

How very nice for mothers with children, pensioners, and what not.

Tell me, are you aware of the welfare system?

A socialist economy essentially functions on the basis of:

- If you can work, then you deserve to have your effort rewarded in full to as great an extent as is possible.

- If you can't work, then it's the socialist state's duty (and, eventually, the community's) to support you.

[Norsklow]

How very nice for mothers with children, pensioners, and what not.

Tell me, are you aware of the welfare system?

Yep. Better keep it in place. As for workers control, better keep it out of place. Lest the workers get the wrong Idea there.

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

Tell me, are you aware of the welfare system?

Yep. Better keep it in place. As for workers control, better keep it out of place. Lest the workers get the wrong Idea there.

What's the "wrong idea"?

[Souseiseki]

Workers' control of the means of production.

In other terms, you reap what you sow from your work.

How very nice for mothers with children, pensioners, and what not.

fuck what is it those commies are always saying... ability... need...?

[Vetalia]

Workers' control of the means of production.

In other terms, you reap what you sow from your work.

I think the question is how do you determine who gets what from the work performed?

[Norsklow]

Yep. Better keep it in place. As for workers control, better keep it out of place. Lest the workers get the wrong Idea there.

What's the "wrong idea"?

We gots all the control, and we keeps all the marbles.

[LochNessMontropolis]

Interesting to see capitalists revert to childish appeals to authority.

Thank you so much for your explanation of what socialism means.

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

What's the "wrong idea"?

We gots all the control, and we keeps all the marbles.

The vanguard party, if one is even used, should be responsible enough to ensure that the means of production are taken by the workers. If not, then it should be overthrown in turn by the workers.

[Norsklow]

We gots all the control, and we keeps all the marbles.

The vanguard party, if one is even used, should be responsible enough to ensure that the means of production are taken by the workers. If not, then it should be overthrown in turn by the workers.

Better make sure no deviation from the Status Quo happens. None at all.

[LochNessMontropolis]

Okay, I've heard a lot about how great socialism is - SO, tell me why it's so great. Convince me.

Workers' control of the means of production.

In other terms, you reap what you sow from your work.

Okay, so the work/factory/business is controlled by a committee?
What about those who can't/won't work?

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

Workers' control of the means of production.

In other terms, you reap what you sow from your work.

Okay, so the work/factory/business is controlled by a committee?
What about those who can't/won't work?

If you actively refuse work, i.e. if you're on welfare and you refuse to go for jobs offered to you, then you don't get stuff and are counselled.

If you can't work, then the state provides for you, as is its duty.

[Rudie]

Interesting to see capitalists revert to childish appeals to authority.

Thank you so much for your explanation of what socialism means.

One can observe a discussion rather than participate. Quoting Thatcher and Churchill is on the same level, in my opinion, as Christians arguing with atheists manipulating Einstein's thoughts to imply he was a monotheist.

[LochNessMontropolis]

Thank you so much for your explanation of what socialism means.

One can observe a discussion rather than participate. Quoting Thatcher and Churchill is on the same level, in my opinion, as Christians arguing with atheists manipulating Einstein's thoughts to imply he was a monotheist.

Yet you did choose to participate with a rather snotty, unhelpful comment.

[LochNessMontropolis]

Okay, so the work/factory/business is controlled by a committee?
What about those who can't/won't work?

If you actively refuse work, i.e. if you're on welfare and you refuse to go for jobs offered to you, then you don't get stuff and are counselled.

If you can't work, then the state provides for you, as is its duty.

Okay, how will conselling help those who refuse to work?
And, WHY is it the state's duty to provide for someone who legitimately cannot work? I understand that parents have a duty to care for their minor children, and adult children have a moral obligation for provide for their elderly parents.

[United Koryo]

Why would anyone have to be afriad with socialism?

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

If you actively refuse work, i.e. if you're on welfare and you refuse to go for jobs offered to you, then you don't get stuff and are counselled.

If you can't work, then the state provides for you, as is its duty.

Okay, how will counselling help those who refuse to work?

Hopefully by changing their outlook on work etc. If they refuse to work for capitalist reasons, then they're free to leave the country.

And, WHY is it the state's duty to provide for someone who legitimately cannot work? I understand that parents have a duty to care for their minor children, and adult children have a moral obligation for provide for their elderly parents.

The social contract. People partially submit to the state's authority, and in return it looks after them when they can't look after themselves. If you can't work or provide for yourself, i.e. if you're disabled or need income support while raising a child or can no longer work due to age, then the government and state, which derive their legitimacy from the people, should serve the people by helping them. Governments should not only rule, they should also serve.

[Franklin Delano Bluth]

Okay, so the work/factory/business is controlled by a committee?
What about those who can't/won't work?

If you actively refuse work, i.e. if you're on welfare and you refuse to go for jobs offered to you, then you don't get stuff and are counselled.

That's essentially capitalism.

No just, morally defensible social order makes its guarantee of equal access to resources contingent on whether one works or not, regardless of what one's reasons for not working are.

[Rudie]

One can observe a discussion rather than participate. Quoting Thatcher and Churchill is on the same level, in my opinion, as Christians arguing with atheists manipulating Einstein's thoughts to imply he was a monotheist.

Yet you did choose to participate with a rather snotty, unhelpful comment.

I expressed interest in capitalists using appeal to authority arguments as do Christians in regards to Einstein: a debate tactic I regard as childish, as with all appeal to authority in my opinion. It may encourage another poster's thoughts, as it has; its 'snottiness' is, of course, subjective. I was not expressing an opinion relevant to the OP and thereby I am non-participatory in the general discussion.

[Blakk Metal]

Since when are quotes that promote ignorance good?

Churchill was a man of wisdom... he made it to the Prime Minister's position. Ok? He knew what he was talking about...

Churchill was a violent dumbass. There's a reason the UK fired him after he won World War II.

This is why socialism and its unhealthy emphasis on redistribution of wealth is no way to ensure a country's long term prosperity.

You fail, bro.

Yep. Better keep it in place. As for workers control, better keep it out of place. Lest the workers get the wrong Idea there.

What's the "wrong idea"?

That they are more than tools to be used by the glorious capitalists.

The vanguard party, if one is even used, should be responsible enough to ensure that the means of production are taken by the workers. If not, then it should be overthrown in turn by the workers.

Better make sure no deviation from the Status Quo happens. None at all.

Why?

Okay, so the work/factory/business is controlled by a committee?
What about those who can't/won't work?

If you actively refuse work, i.e. if you're on welfare and you refuse to go for jobs offered to you, then you don't get stuff and are counselled.

Enslavement and indoctrination is bad.

[CTALNH]

Okay, I've heard a lot about how great socialism is - SO, tell me why it's so great. Convince me.

Workers' control of the means of production.

In other terms, you reap what you sow from your work.

Really thats the best you can come up with?

Hey LochNessMontropolis Super Welfare state how does that sound?

[Mike the Progressive]

First off, let me state that I think anybody who tries to tie the Democrats, Obama and their platform to socialism is an idiot. They fail to understand socialism or they have a similar worldview to Ludwig von Mises. I think a lot of it are intentional attempts to deceive people by playing the fear card. And it works. Unfortunately, it's also not new. Opponents of Jefferson spread rumors that he sacrificed animals at Monticello and was going to take everybody's Bibles away. Opponents of Adams claimed he was going to wage a war with France. It's not new, it's not unique to one party.

That said, socialism, actual socialism, I think, is something nobody seriously wants. I mean no country in Europe or Asia is really/seriously trying to shift from a market oriented to a worker's controlling the means of production economy. And yes, there are parties of the left in Greece and Germany that are rising. But I think they are rising more out of this anti-incumbency, anti-austerity sentiment than an actual "We the workers are going to take control" mentality.

Even countries like Cuba and North Korea are gradually becoming more free market as time goes on.

So no, I reject tying any serious candidates or parties in the US with socialism, but then again, I do so with most of the developed world. Keep in mind I'm not opposed to a mixed economy, the Nordic model is interesting and effective, but it's hardly "socialist." It's capitalist, very much so.

[Mutantopol]

Interesting to see capitalists revert to childish appeals to authority.

We revert because your argument is futile, history has taught us capitalism works the best.