Miliband Should Know Better; Doesn't Shocker.

[New Chalcedon]

To me it is another 'Labour Party = rank opportunists interspersed with idjits shocker*

*turns to page 3*

Bigger tits on page 1...

I thought this was the BBC, not The Sun.

[Ostroeuropa]

This will hit him a lot harder than it will help him.
The kind of people who would consider voting labour AND hate europe were already voting labour, or vote for UKIP and always will.
The kind of people who will see this and think "Fuck you ed" are going to be annoyed.

[Aclany]

This is just pure opportunism from Miliband, and resonates with the blue labour trend of the party, a faction I thought Miliband was to the left of. Nonetheless, it is likely labour will have to be 'bluer' at the next election (e.g. adopting tougher stances on immigration, justice, and, as in this case, Europe) to win back working class support, lost under the Europhile administration of Blair-Brown. Yet again, the Labour party compromises its founding values for popular support.

[Norsklow]

That's about tactics.

I'm suggesting,pushing, for a total review of Ideology.
What is our End State, our vision of a Better Future for our grandchildren in when THEY are grand parents themselves?

I think the rapid development of technology prevents any kind of 'end state' from being A Thing We Can Predict. Certainly it would be nice if we could have a society with generally less Being A Pleb and more Getting Along And Such, including generally minimising the damage we do to the environment as far as is possible while still maintaining quality of life. That would be top.

If you take that stand ( and I am not suggesting that it is wrong ) then you'll have to develop a vision of lazily drifting along the stream, occasionally putting out an oar to avoid a rock.

Seems to me the Tories have already monopolised that market, though.

[Norsklow]

Ideology? New Labour?? Surely you jest - New Labour was, as you should recall, started as a response to the (perceived) excessively ideological nature of Old Labour.

In all seriousness, is Miliband endorsing austerity for the Eurozone, or just for the EU as an institution? And does that mean that he's endorsing it for Britain as well, or is he just a selfish, opportunistic jackass?

Austerity = fail. And when ostensibly left-wing politicians promote it (either out of misapplied ideology, or for "political convenience"), I just want to massively. Also, when Labour repeats the asinine Thatcherisms about Europe ("I want my money back!"), they simply undercut Britain's membership in the EU.

A response to the reality that Old Labour was ideologically bankrupt. What they had qua ideas had just seen its value reduced to a few pennies. Never tried to develop a new Idea afterwards, though.

[Ostroeuropa]

Ideology? New Labour?? Surely you jest - New Labour was, as you should recall, started as a response to the (perceived) excessively ideological nature of Old Labour.

In all seriousness, is Miliband endorsing austerity for the Eurozone, or just for the EU as an institution? And does that mean that he's endorsing it for Britain as well, or is he just a selfish, opportunistic jackass?

Austerity = fail. And when ostensibly left-wing politicians promote it (either out of misapplied ideology, or for "political convenience"), I just want to massively. Also, when Labour repeats the asinine Thatcherisms about Europe ("I want my money back!"), they simply undercut Britain's membership in the EU.

A response to the reality that Old Labour was ideologically bankrupt. What they had qua ideas had just seen its value reduced to a few pennies. Never tried to develop a new Idea afterwards, though.

Essentially it was realized that socialism was untenable, and that a more moderate form of capitalism should be adopted.
(Since the socialists were the enemy, the capitalists on the opposistion were allowed to be EXTREEEEMELY capitalist and free market.
New Labour attempted to blend both and...well, failed. but ideologically thats where they stand (Social Democrat))

[Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f]

Bigger tits on page 1...

I thought this was the BBC, not The Sun.

THIS IS NSG! RAWR! etc

[Norsklow]

Essentially it was realized that socialism was untenable, and that a more moderate form of capitalism should be adopted.
(Since the socialists were the enemy, the capitalists on the opposistion were allowed to be EXTREEEEMELY capitalist and free market.
New Labour attempted to blend both and...well, failed. but ideologically thats where they stand (Social Democrat))

Having said that, the Laundry List school of lefty thinking did not begin with New Labour but was remarkably present in the late 70ies. The Left's willingness to embrace new cliques without a critical examination was much to blame for it's ideological bankruptcy.

This problem still persists.
Exactly what is to be gained from embracing LGBT causes?
Exactly what is to be gained from embracing the interests of religious minorities?
What do you do when these causes and interests collide?
And so on.
Unasked Question: how does this new item on the Laundry List fit into our existing plan?

[New Chalcedon]

I thought this was the BBC, not The Sun.

THIS IS NSG! RAWR! etc

Not even a "Ba-dum-tish!"?

[New England and The Maritimes]

New Labour=Tories. Seems like the UK has a right wing party and a right wing party. Not sure how things worked out that way.

[Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f]

THIS IS NSG! RAWR! etc

Not even a "Ba-dum-tish!"?

Well played! A veritable 6!

[Ostroeuropa]

New Labour=Tories. Seems like the UK has a right wing party and a right wing party. Not sure how things worked out that way.

We needed to have two because everyone was making fun of us for being conservative, so we made two right wing parties and painted one like a socialist party so we could save face.

[Serrland]

Poor old John Major.

[Literallystalin]

Yes they're separate terms and ideologies but they are also the same party, which is part of the reason why Labour is in the identity crisis which the past few posts were pointing at. It's the left, but it's also alot of other things.

Which is a shame. The left needs to take back the party and fuck anyone who disagrees off. First to go: borderline racist cunts like Cruddas who the party only puts up with to gain the votes of the kind of plebs who'd vote NF if they had the courage to.

If only there was a way to remove the unwanted elements of the party that are undermini

[Literallystalin]

New Labour=Tories. Seems like the UK has a right wing party and a right wing party. Not sure how things worked out that way.

It would be worth remembering for the benefit of any outside observers that the UK does not just have a right wing party and a right wing party. It also has a smaller but still significant right wing party.

[Norsklow]

It's going to be a gigantic joke on everyone who posted here ( Including myself ) if 53 Tory defectors do bring Cammie down.

[The UK in Exile]

it was amusing to watch the tories scrambling to get their shit together and failing miserably. so Ed has my thanks for that.

will it harm Labour? possibly not, this is the second time Ed has had his MP's walk through the lobbies the against their beliefs to fuck the tories. last time was a significant victory.

that said its a dangerous time to be playing politics with the EU.