Miliband Should Know Better; Doesn't Shocker.

[Yewhohohopia]

EU budget: Cameron in bitter clash with Miliband

David Cameron has accused Ed Miliband of "rank opportunism" after the Labour leader decided to back Tory rebels in a key EU budget vote.

But Mr Miliband said the PM was as "weak" as ex PM John Major on Europe - and accused him of "throwing in the towel" before budget talks had begun.

Mr Cameron wants a freeze in the budget but Tory rebels and Labour are demanding a real terms cut.

The PM is battling to avoid defeat in a Commons vote on the issue later.

Speaking at Prime Minister's Questions, Mr Cameron said he would veto any deal on the EU's financial plans if he could not get a deal that was good for Britain.

He said "at best" he would like to see the budget cut, and "at worst" frozen, but it was in the national interest to get a deal.

'Weak'

He accused the Labour leader of "rank opportunism" - and said voters would see through Mr Miliband's party political "posturing".

"He is playing politics, he is not serving the country," said Mr Cameron during a noisy session.

Mr Miliband said the prime minister "can't convince anyone on Europe", adding: "He has thrown in the towel even before these negotiations have begun..."

More info and full story here

So, Miliband's decided to complain about the EU and such in an attempt to make idiots like him for maybe a week. This is a Bad Idea, and his claims for massive fiscal restraint on the continent are going to blow up in his face like some kind of budgetary Taliban in the future.

We've probably had enough topics about "should Britain leave the EU" for a little while, so as a more interesting question, to what extent do you think that siding with back-bench Tories for brief electoral convenience might alter the ideological future of the New Labour movement generally?

[Galborg]

Ever since Kinnock and Blair, New "Labour" supports Tory policy.

On this issue, Tories ate divided, so New Labour don't know what to think.

[Norsklow]

To me it is another 'Labour Party = rank opportunists interspersed with idjits shocker*

*turns to page 3*

[SD_Film Artists]

I don't think this can harm the Labour party further, as it already has a terrible identity crisis; being made up of left-wing Old Labour, New Labour wannabe Tories, Hugo Chavez sympathisers (Ken Livingstone) and just about anyone who doesn't like the real Tories.

[The Joseon Dynasty]

New Labour's ideology is already a mangled hodgepodge, I don't think this will have too massive an impact on it.

[Norsklow]

New Labour's ideology is already a mangled hodgepodge, I don't think this will have too massive an impact on it.

Which should be no great surprise since ideologically, the Left has been brain dead since the end of the Cold War, if not earlier.
Since then, it has a laundry list approach to politics, aka the Rainbow Coalition kind of thing.
It has nothing to tell to the mainstream other than a 'OMG look what just happened!' message, which results in a strategy of Rank Opportunism.

The Left now forms an Opposition to the Right. It does not form an alternative.

[Souseiseki]

New Labour's ideology is already a mangled hodgepodge, I don't think this will have too massive an impact on it.

Which should be no great surprise since ideologically, the Left has been brain dead since the end of the Cold War, if not earlier.
Since then, it has a laundry list approach to politics, aka the Rainbow Coalition kind of thing.
It has nothing to tell to the mainstream other than a 'OMG look what just happened!' message, which results in a strategy of Rank Opportunism.

The Left now forms an Opposition to the Right. It does not form an alternative.

did you just call new labour left

[Souseiseki]

New Labour's ideology is already a mangled hodgepodge, I don't think this will have too massive an impact on it.

Which should be no great surprise since ideologically, the Left has been brain dead since the end of the Cold War, if not earlier.
Since then, it has a laundry list approach to politics, aka the Rainbow Coalition kind of thing.
It has nothing to tell to the mainstream other than a 'OMG look what just happened!' message, which results in a strategy of Rank Opportunism.

The Left now forms an Opposition to the Right. It does not form an alternative.

did you just call ed milliband an opposition

[SD_Film Artists]

Which should be no great surprise since ideologically, the Left has been brain dead since the end of the Cold War, if not earlier.
Since then, it has a laundry list approach to politics, aka the Rainbow Coalition kind of thing.
It has nothing to tell to the mainstream other than a 'OMG look what just happened!' message, which results in a strategy of Rank Opportunism.

The Left now forms an Opposition to the Right. It does not form an alternative.

did you just call new labour left

If New Labour isn't at least partially left-wing, then where do you think all the Old Labour leftists go?

[Souseiseki]

did you just call new labour left

If New Labour isn't at least partially left-wing, then where do you think all the Old Labour leftists go?

are you trying to contest my definition of new labour with old labour

i mean there's a reason they're separate terms

i imagine they sit around and desperately cling to hope

[SD_Film Artists]

If New Labour isn't at least partially left-wing, then where do you think all the Old Labour leftists go?

are you trying to contest my definition of new labour with old labour

i mean there's a reason they're separate terms

i imagine they sit around and desperately cling to hope

Yes they're separate terms and ideologies but they are also the same party, which is part of the reason why Labour is in the identity crisis which the past few posts were pointing at. It's the left, but it's also alot of other things.

[Norsklow]

Which should be no great surprise since ideologically, the Left has been brain dead since the end of the Cold War, if not earlier.
Since then, it has a laundry list approach to politics, aka the Rainbow Coalition kind of thing.
It has nothing to tell to the mainstream other than a 'OMG look what just happened!' message, which results in a strategy of Rank Opportunism.

The Left now forms an Opposition to the Right. It does not form an alternative.

did you just call ed milliband an opposition

Absolutely! Absolutely! He is the prime example of the Rainbow Coalition. Ideologically bankrupt, opportunistic, and utterly idiotic to boot.

[Yewhohohopia]

are you trying to contest my definition of new labour with old labour

i mean there's a reason they're separate terms

i imagine they sit around and desperately cling to hope

Yes they're separate terms and ideologies but they are also the same party, which is part of the reason why Labour is in the identity crisis which the past few posts were pointing at. It's the left, but it's also alot of other things.

Which is a shame. The left needs to take back the party and fuck anyone who disagrees off. First to go: borderline racist cunts like Cruddas who the party only puts up with to gain the votes of the kind of plebs who'd vote NF if they had the courage to.

[GrandKirche]

It could do very bad things to Labour, potentially splitting it into the North London Society for the reading of the Guardian and the North of England Socialists Party.

In the event that this happens you may feel an earthquake as Britannia boogies to celebrate.

[Norsklow]

Yes they're separate terms and ideologies but they are also the same party, which is part of the reason why Labour is in the identity crisis which the past few posts were pointing at. It's the left, but it's also alot of other things.

Which is a shame. The left needs to take back the party and fuck anyone who disagrees off. First to go: borderline racist cunts like Cruddas who the party only puts up with to gain the votes of the kind of plebs who'd vote NF if they had the courage to.

I blame the Voting System for that in the first instance. In a more pluralistic system, Cruddas and Livingstone would not be in the same Party. ( Which may be a major concern for Labour supporters who therefore don't want PR ).

Labour IS a Rainbow Coalition because it has no single narrative about what to do in the present conditions.

[Norsklow]

It could do very bad things to Labour, potentially splitting it into the North London Society for the reading of the Guardian and the North of England Socialists Party.

In the event that this happens you may feel an earthquake as Britannia boogies to celebrate.

I might very easily be persuaded to join the latter. Can't be bothered as long as the Reading of the Guardian is still allowed on the same stomping ground.

[Yewhohohopia]

Which is a shame. The left needs to take back the party and fuck anyone who disagrees off. First to go: borderline racist cunts like Cruddas who the party only puts up with to gain the votes of the kind of plebs who'd vote NF if they had the courage to.

I blame the Voting System for that in the first instance. In a more pluralistic system, Cruddas and Livingstone would not be in the same Party. ( Which may be a major concern for Labour supporters who therefore don't want PR ).

The actual problem is the internal split that will probably always exist in Labour between the educated elite and the scum they're trying to help, to basically sum it up.

Labour IS a Rainbow Coalition because it has no single narrative about what to do in the present conditions.

Yeah but then so's every party.

[Norsklow]

Quite right. What to do about it?

[Yewhohohopia]

Quite right. What to do about it?

Don't let the scum near anything important. Unfortunately every failing Labour government gives in. Callaghan's ministry basically encouraged the casual racism that existed in the 1970s. Latter-days Blair and Brown did the same much later, because having a debate about why Britons are allegedly 'better' than foreigners mainly because they popped out of someone's quim in a hospital here is the kind of thing you don't try to do when you're already in trouble for some reason.

[Norsklow]

Quite right. What to do about it?

Don't let the scum near anything important. Unfortunately every failing Labour government gives in. Callaghan's ministry basically encouraged the casual racism that existed in the 1970s. Latter-days Blair and Brown did the same much later, because having a debate about why Britons are allegedly 'better' than foreigners mainly because they popped out of someone's quim in a hospital here is the kind of thing you don't try to do when you're already in trouble for some reason.

That's about tactics.

I'm suggesting,pushing, for a total review of Ideology.
What is our End State, our vision of a Better Future for our grandchildren in when THEY are grand parents themselves?

Where is Society standing now?

How do we get from NOW till FUTURE?

You'll see how that is totally at odds with:
MANIFESTO:
More heating allowances!
Protect Council Jobs!
Say No to Euroburocracy!
Empower this or that group!

You know,the BNP can do that just as well - but... they cannot play the more strategic game.

[Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f]

To me it is another 'Labour Party = rank opportunists interspersed with idjits shocker*

*turns to page 3*

Bigger tits on page 1...

[Norsklow]

To me it is another 'Labour Party = rank opportunists interspersed with idjits shocker*

*turns to page 3*

Bigger tits on page 1...

If size matters, I could look at my own manboobs.

[Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f]

Bigger tits on page 1...

If size matters, I could look at my own manboobs.

Boobs are not part of the JD...

[Yewhohohopia]

Don't let the scum near anything important. Unfortunately every failing Labour government gives in. Callaghan's ministry basically encouraged the casual racism that existed in the 1970s. Latter-days Blair and Brown did the same much later, because having a debate about why Britons are allegedly 'better' than foreigners mainly because they popped out of someone's quim in a hospital here is the kind of thing you don't try to do when you're already in trouble for some reason.

That's about tactics.

I'm suggesting,pushing, for a total review of Ideology.
What is our End State, our vision of a Better Future for our grandchildren in when THEY are grand parents themselves?

I think the rapid development of technology prevents any kind of 'end state' from being A Thing We Can Predict. Certainly it would be nice if we could have a society with generally less Being A Pleb and more Getting Along And Such, including generally minimising the damage we do to the environment as far as is possible while still maintaining quality of life. That would be top.

[New Chalcedon]

EU budget: Cameron in bitter clash with Miliband

David Cameron has accused Ed Miliband of "rank opportunism" after the Labour leader decided to back Tory rebels in a key EU budget vote.

But Mr Miliband said the PM was as "weak" as ex PM John Major on Europe - and accused him of "throwing in the towel" before budget talks had begun.

Mr Cameron wants a freeze in the budget but Tory rebels and Labour are demanding a real terms cut.

The PM is battling to avoid defeat in a Commons vote on the issue later.

Speaking at Prime Minister's Questions, Mr Cameron said he would veto any deal on the EU's financial plans if he could not get a deal that was good for Britain.

He said "at best" he would like to see the budget cut, and "at worst" frozen, but it was in the national interest to get a deal.

'Weak'

He accused the Labour leader of "rank opportunism" - and said voters would see through Mr Miliband's party political "posturing".

"He is playing politics, he is not serving the country," said Mr Cameron during a noisy session.

Mr Miliband said the prime minister "can't convince anyone on Europe", adding: "He has thrown in the towel even before these negotiations have begun..."

More info and full story here

So, Miliband's decided to complain about the EU and such in an attempt to make idiots like him for maybe a week. This is a Bad Idea, and his claims for massive fiscal restraint on the continent are going to blow up in his face like some kind of budgetary Taliban in the future.

We've probably had enough topics about "should Britain leave the EU" for a little while, so as a more interesting question, to what extent do you think that siding with back-bench Tories for brief electoral convenience might alter the ideological future of the New Labour movement generally?

Ideology? New Labour?? Surely you jest - New Labour was, as you should recall, started as a response to the (perceived) excessively ideological nature of Old Labour.

In all seriousness, is Miliband endorsing austerity for the Eurozone, or just for the EU as an institution? And does that mean that he's endorsing it for Britain as well, or is he just a selfish, opportunistic jackass?

Austerity = fail. And when ostensibly left-wing politicians promote it (either out of misapplied ideology, or for "political convenience"), I just want to massively. Also, when Labour repeats the asinine Thatcherisms about Europe ("I want my money back!"), they simply undercut Britain's membership in the EU.